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@  Maximus Ambus : (11 August 2020 - 03:52 AM)

Others say Joe sat down at this pond next to these ducks but really there's just no place in this world for an old man and his ducks.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:48 PM)

Even worse when I can produce those verifiable facts at a later point, and then the other person simply claims the argument was the other way round (as in, I was actually arguing their position and vice versa).

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:47 PM)

I can argue with people about my versus their memory of events when verifiable facts are not readily available, though, and I get really annoyed when I'm capable of presenting a precise, step-by-step summary with multiple key points that can be used for future verification, and the other person just goes "nope, wrong" without going into detail.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:45 PM)

I forget things, and I misremember things. But when presented with verifiable facts, my reaction is more like "Huh, could have sworn it was like that", not "this reality is not my own".

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:43 PM)

I have an extremely good memory (which I have proven time and again), and even I can be mistaken.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 August 2020 - 06:40 PM)

Might be worth pointing out that it only became "Mandela Effect" and not just "I remembered this wrong" when a conspiracy theorist insisted it was proof of alternate timelines.

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

Incorrectly remembering Nelson Mandela's fate may be uniquely American... but is it really that strange to get South African political history wrong when you're no where near South Africa?

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

I always assumed the Mandela Effect was a "human thing", not an American thing.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 August 2020 - 02:03 PM)

Then there are people who outright manufacture memories for whatever reason.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (10 August 2020 - 01:13 PM)

The human brain is so flaky that it is extremely unlikely that a given person does NOT have any false memories.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:05 PM)

Perhaps it's simple word association the movie Sinbad and then our minds apply the same memories to a man named Sinbad.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:04 PM)

The Mandela Effect is the same as people remembering Sinbad in a movie where he played a genie... Of which he never did.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:36 AM)

People that believe Mandela Effect things would rather come up with any number of reasons as to why their version doesn't have any actual evidence(like alternate timelines collapsing into our own) than just admit they remembered something wrong

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Sort of. It's more that when presented with a verifiable fact, they double down because it's what they believe instead of changing their minds

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

"I could have sworn that ______."

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

I'm not arguing with either of those two statements, but they're not really connected. Mandela Effect is, to oversimplify, people being widely mistaken about what they think *is* a verifiable fact. Nothing to do with opinions.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 08:52 AM)

Pretty sure the Mandela Effect in general is an American thing. Opinion > Verifiable Facts is sadly a pretty American thing

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:27 AM)

Ask these people how Apartheid ended according to their recollection, and I'm sure they'll draw a blank.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:25 AM)

You got two black anti-Apartheid activists who were imprisoned by the oppressive regime. One died, the other was Nelson Mandela. It's not a far stretch that Americans who don't know many details about the history of other countries would mix up the two.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:24 AM)

My own theory is that these people are simply mixing up Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko, another South African anti-Apartheid activist, who did indeed die in police custody in 1977. There was an Oscar-nominated movie about his life starring Denzel Washington that came out in 1987, the same time frame these people claim remembering Mandela dying.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:17 AM)

I met a few people from South Africa, and they either never heard of the phenomenon at all, or only know of it from the internet. Apparently, it's completely unknown in South Africa, and it might even be entirely limited to the United States.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:16 AM)

So does anyone remember the "Mandela Effect"? I'm talking specifically about the original case where many people vividly remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (10 August 2020 - 03:16 AM)

Crisis of Corona.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?

@  Steevy Maximus : (07 August 2020 - 08:28 PM)

@Bass X0, yeah, the Joe comic got REALLY solid in the upper 20s to the Cobra Civil War. It's interesting to see how well the Joe comic has aged relative to the cartoon. Where as I feel the opposite is true of Transformers

@  -LittleAutob... : (07 August 2020 - 03:58 PM)

Its so fun watching past TF Conventions.

@  Bass X0 : (07 August 2020 - 02:20 PM)

I've been reading classic 80s G.I. Joe lately. Its still decent even though I don't have any nostalgia towards it.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 08:50 AM)

Think of it as Adam West Batman instead. ;)

@  wonko the sane? : (07 August 2020 - 07:49 AM)

That sounds more like the flash, or maybe booster gold than batman.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 12:27 AM)

They would get bored fighting each other and instead decide to take an epic cross-country road trip together.

@  RichardT1977 : (06 August 2020 - 08:57 PM)

What would happen if Batman were to fight Squirrel Girl?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 09:03 PM)

Unless you count the Mask vs Lobo special, but that's less a duel and more a duet.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 08:52 PM)

My favorite crossover fight was Thor vs Shazam/Captain Marvel. Early in the fight, Thor discovers that Billy Batson needs lightning to transform, and being a god of lightning he simply denies him that.

@  Sabrblade : (04 August 2020 - 08:46 PM)

Let's see a fight between Death Battle and Super Power Beat Down

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

Which Lobo later claimed was because he was paid to take a dive. Yes, really.

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

And then there's the times it's been decided by a fan vote, which is how we get things like Lobo (who can go toe-to-toe with Superman at full strength) losing to Wolverine.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

And then there are the "but my favorite characater will totes win because I say so" people.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

I mean, there are some people who really approach this from a somewhat reasonable standpoint, coming up with a plausible scenario and a setting that creates a fair environment that doesn't favor one character.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:46 PM)

My favorite stupid "why would they even fight each other" question recently was about three versions of Optimus Prime (G1, Bayverse and Aligned).

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:45 PM)

Batman obviously can beat everyone. Even Galactus. He's Batman. He's so smart, he'll just throw a Batarang and hit the weak spot at Galactus's forehead, knocking him out instantaneously.

@  wonko the sane? : (04 August 2020 - 11:37 AM)

It's almost like all drama is just manufactured pissing contests to keep us all entertained and distracted. :p

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (04 August 2020 - 10:16 AM)

Or they could go White Ranger vs Scorpion route and have both win. ;P


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Captain Marvel - Movie discussion

Captain Marvel MCU

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#441 bigbot69

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 08:24 AM

Pandering?


It's a Newcomic (apparently)

#442 HellCat

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 10:33 AM

I'd have considered it a bit on the nose if they'd used the deleted version but generally be ok with it. Though I'm fine with how it plays out in the actual cut. Carol is respectful to Fury and Coulson when she is informed they're local law enforcement and the version they went with gives her enough of a reason to steal the bike without us the audience feeling bad for the guy. She's established to have a temper and is alone on a backwater planet trying to find what she believes to be a terrorist cell.

 

I'm really not sure why some women, like the writers at the Mary Sue, wanted the whole movie to be Carol going around trash talking/attacking men at every chance. I don't really want a movie about Frank Miller's Wonder Woman, thanks. Whenever Carol takes issue with a guy being sexist in the movie it feels valid, not like she's walking around with a chip on her shoulder.



#443 Kalidor

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 10:48 AM

Pandering?

 

By going out of their way to appeal to the "HEY GUESS WHAT EVERYBODY? IT'S A WOMAN? SHE'S A WOMAN!" instead of just leaving it as is about her being a super hero. The underlying aspects of how a man has always kept her down, always tried to control her, even going to the point that they changed Mar-Vell into a little old lady so as not to put her origin at odds with having looked up to a man. It's silly and the entire narrative by both the media outlets and all the complainers detracted from what should have been the focus - Marvel's most powerful hero.

 

It's also somewhat absurd because Danvers wasn't the first Captain Marvel, and not even the first woman Captain Marvel. So I never understood why that took such a large percentage of the dialog when we should be talking about how she can fly around and do cool shit. 



#444 HellCat

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 11:00 AM

Disney are at the point where they would like to be very loudly woke than perhaps tell a story. I feel like it's something I should welcome but it just comes off as increasingly obnoxious. It's less the kind of woke where they're trying to improve things/raise awareness and more like they're begging you to find a fault/lying to you that putting all your money into this franchise will somehow save the world.

 

I think Star Wars has been hit by it the worst but Marvel and even some of their TV stuff like Star Vs has a lot of it too. Don't get me wrong, I love stuff like DS9 and Doctor Who for their social commentary. But with both of those, there's still an independent story to enjoy. Disney are just getting so pushy about it there's sometimes not much fantasy to escape into. It's like someone pointed out the 'I'll marry a prince and that will solve all my problems' stories were naive and outdated so they went HARD in the other direction.



#445 Caldwin

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:59 PM

I kinda figured I'd have to wait until it came out on home video before I saw it. I didn't think my first viewing of this movie would be on my iPad while visiting my parents for the weekend. *shrugs*

 

 

Disney are at the point where they would like to be very loudly woke than perhaps tell a story. I feel like it's something I should welcome but it just comes off as increasingly obnoxious. It's less the kind of woke where they're trying to improve things/raise awareness and more like they're begging you to find a fault/lying to you that putting all your money into this franchise will somehow save the world.

 

I think Star Wars has been hit by it the worst but Marvel and even some of their TV stuff like Star Vs has a lot of it too. Don't get me wrong, I love stuff like DS9 and Doctor Who for their social commentary. But with both of those, there's still an independent story to enjoy. Disney are just getting so pushy about it there's sometimes not much fantasy to escape into. It's like someone pointed out the 'I'll marry a prince and that will solve all my problems' stories were naive and outdated so they went HARD in the other direction.

 

 

Not wanting to get P&R here, but it just feels like media in general (comics, movies, shows, news, music etc.) has been more soapboxy for a while now. I saw it (and was very aware) of what you were talking about while watching certain parts of this movie. But then I've been becoming more and more aware of it in lots of places lately. So I guess I can't really peg it too hard here on this one movie when it just seems to be all over the place is what I'm trying to say. I mean, Disney and Marvel have been so in your face social commentary, if I'm going to watch/read anything from any of those companies (or I guess "that company" seeing as how they're one big happy family now), I kinda have to expect it. 

 

Alternative is just to watch a movie that isn't social commentary...like...well...umm...don't tell me, I'm sure I'll think of one...

 

Nope, I got nothing.

 

In any case, as far as this movie goes, it was pretty decent. I wasn't sure who to trust since in the comics, I do believe that both the Skrulls and the Kree have both been bad guys in one story or another. So I was entertained. Jude Law is always fun to watch. Seeing how Fury got the eyepatch...I figured we would see how he got it in this movie. But...I wasn't expecting that

 

I want that cat.


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#446 Echowarrior

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:43 PM

Goose is good kitty.


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#447 HellCat

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:15 AM

Media in general is certainly trying to be more progressive, but there's a line between progressive and preachy/condescending. To the point at times attempts to speak on behalf certain groups just alienate said group. Example- Totally Awesome Hulk tried to have a dramatic moment about how it feels to be Asian American. Most Asian Americans I know found it laughable, which is how I even know of it.

 

In Disney's case it feels like they're not only trying to support these issues but bind them to the properties. I'm still really not sure why in particular they're pushing it so strongly with Star Wars, a series that always had allegory and light social commentary but never pushed it to the extent that Disney has.

 

I enjoy entertainment with a social conscience but these days it's laid on so thick that so many properties feel like they're judging the audience rather than trying to engage them. And when people buy into it too strongly it gets ridiculous. I mentioned in another thread a while back that Star Wars.com ran a poll asking if you'd be Resistance or First Order and had to cancel it when fans declared it a 'Would you be a Nazi?' poll.

 

I've cited this before but one of my fave examples from this era is Steven Universe because its message is about coexistence and mutual respect. A lot of other properties feel like they want to actively war with different opinions/insist on imagined superiority. And I find that incredibly tiring and wasteful. There are absolutely backwards ideas in the world that should be challenged. But challenging imagined superiority with another case of it...no.



#448 Caldwin

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 11:32 AM

@HellCat

 

I absolutely agree with what you've said. I feel the same thing. So much of today's "entertainment" is like that. I think that's why (from what I can tell), more people tend to watch Youtube vids than mainstream media. 

 

I think it's just been beaten into a lot of people for so long that that's simply what mainstream media is and good luck finding much that isn't beating you over the head with their own sense of morality...I'm just not sure where to look (aside from some parts of Youtube) that isn't going to be like that. 

 

Also, don't get me wrong. I love a strong female protagonist. I love Lara Croft, Aloy (Horizon Zero Dawn), Wonder Woman. What I don't like is when they go so far to the other side "let's show these boys how it's done," or where the men are jerks and the women will show them the way. Can't we just have movies (like Wonder Woman and actually Justice League and AquaMan now that I think about it), where you have the women characters and the men characters and they both kick ass without the need for saying one sex is better than the other.

 

So yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. It's just that the DC examples I listed above seem to be more the exception rather than the Marvel norm and I'm not sure what could be done about it. 

 

I did enjoy this movie though. It made me laugh in several places. I was honestly not sure who to trust until a good chunk of the way through the movie, which is good. I'm glad that MCU have gotten past earth and into the greater part of the galaxy. That gives me more hope that maybe the Shi'ar will be around once the X-Men are finally brought in to the MCU...and maybe finally have a decently faithful portrayal of Dark Phoenix. 

 

Previously, I've only known Carol Danvers because of how she relates to Rogue. So it's nice to see her in her own story.

 

I will say that I am with HellCat when I wish that all entertainment (not just this movie, because it's hardly alone in this) could just all take a collective chill pill and lay off the politics...just a little. I'm all for social commentary. But I don't want to go to a movie just to feel like I've been preached to.


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#449 Telly

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 10:48 PM

So yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. It's just that the DC examples I listed above seem to be more the exception rather than the Marvel norm and I'm not sure what could be done about it. 

 

stop trying to pander to an audience that doesnt watch/read what youre offering anyway?


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#450 Glenn

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:43 PM

Yeah... after reading the last few pages of this thread, I’m bound to get some warning points if I respond to the absolute horse shit that’s been spewed.

#451 CORVUS

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:29 AM

Glad it isn't just me, then.
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#452 Kalidor

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:44 AM

I'm curious as to what is upsetting to you, to be honest. I've always been progressive and still am - but I also try to be objective about how things can be presented. 

 

Not *everything* in media needs to be based in activism in order to be good, or even positive. You can have stories that portray positivity in a natural, organic way, that doesn't have to be hamfisted and used as a pulpit. 

av

I think it's important to let people express their opinions. I agree that not everything is for everybody. 

 

For the most part, as I've already stated, I liked Captain Marvel. It was somewhat mediocre but not the worst Marvel movie. But all this talk about how it's somehow this epic awakening of woman power about the first ever woman super hero movie.. that's absurd.

 

I grew up with LOTS of movies that had powerful female leads. So barring that, I think this narrative being pushed by the Captain Marvel movie is very disingenuous. All these so called "toxic male tears" or whatever - that's just divisive and combative and is a load of shit.

 

FANS have always been very critical of the media they enjoy. Proof of that was when the Twilight guy was rumored to be cast as Batman. It was the same when Beast Machines first aired - it's not that fandoms are full of toxic man babies, or whatever other sexist insults are used to describe them. They're just full of fans who either like or don't like something. 

 

Now of COURSE there are shitty people saying shitty things, but I think we've all known for years that they are just vocal minorities in the broader scope of the fandoms. Surely you don't think for all these decades you've been marginalized in the Transformers fandom as a tiny spec of light in a malrestrom of hate and chaos. We aren't. The majority of fans don't care either way and the vocal fans argue about anything, good and bad, and always have. They always will, that's just how it is.

But the mindset I have is I don't really care what people like or dislike. I either like it or I don't. I'm interested to hear people's opinions and am always curious as to why they might not like something. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them and it most certainly doesn't mean I have to call them pieces of shit for not being happy with something. 



#453 Paladin

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:55 AM

Everyone says "let's not get political" when it comes to a female hero but seems just fine ignoring the underlying plot structure from this movie.

 

Wherin the "evil aliens" who invade our world are in fact victims of an intensive hateful propaganda campaign propped up by the "good guys" of the military industrial complex & have already lost their original homeland because they refused to yield to colonization efforts.


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#454 Kalidor

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:00 AM

My favorite part of the movie was seeing that Phil Coulson is still part of the MCU



#455 Caldwin

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:21 AM

Everyone says "let's not get political" when it comes to a female hero but seems just fine ignoring the underlying plot structure from this movie.
 
Wherin the "evil aliens" who invade our world are in fact victims of an intensive hateful propaganda campaign propped up by the "good guys" of the military industrial complex & have already lost their original homeland because they refused to yield to colonization efforts.


Must remember to respond to this when I get home from work. You have some good points here.
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#456 Kup

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:12 PM

I wonder how, in todays political climate, a Metroid movie would be received. Samus is the embodiment of a strong female character (Other M not withstanding). Would it be seen as an agenda-based movie too?
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#457 Kalidor

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:23 PM

I don't see why it would be on its own merit. Alita Battle Angel wasn't. Wonder Woman wasn't. Bumblebee wasn't. Tomb Raider wasn't. Halloween wasn't.  Dark Phoenix isn't (as far as I can tell)

 

There are a lot of great movies with great women leads that focus on the story, the characters and the movie first. They let people take what they want from it and identify with it on how they feel it suits them. 

 

And Captain Marvel wasn't *really* focused on it, but it did slant towards it. Ghostbusters shameful reboot bludgeoned people over the head with it.



#458 Kup

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:31 PM

Fair enough.
"Someone once told me that Time is a predator that stalked us all our lives, but I'd rather believe that Time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment -- because they'll never come again."

#459 Monique

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:32 PM

I'm curious as to what is upsetting to you, to be honest.

 

Tthe usual responses to these types of discussions on other forums and social media sites is because "Everything is political" and that usualy means you cannot find the political message to be preachy, off putting, or question if it's appropriate for the audience. Or you know, to think that no not everything is political or needs to be. Generally to express these opinions means "you're the baddie" to various degrees of that meme being figurative or literal and at the top end you get accused of dogwhistling.



#460 Caldwin

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:59 PM

Everyone says "let's not get political" when it comes to a female hero but seems just fine ignoring the underlying plot structure from this movie.

Can't speak for everyone, but the reason I used the whole "not to get political" line was because I came in and saw that things were already serious business and I was really just wanting to talk about a cat hacking up a tesseract. But I didn't want to derail the discussion already going on, and I did kinda have an opinion on it...but I didn't want to get into a big argument. As much as my "political" opinion might have been seen as pointing out problems with the movie, the thing is I really did enjoy it (minus a few of the more soap boxy moments) and will more than likely see it again...a few times. So I certainly don't want to get caught up in an argument where I'm on the 'nay' side of a movie that I actually like. So I'm trying to be really fair with my posts.

But like I said, that's me and I can't really speak for every one.


Wherin the "evil aliens" who invade our world are in fact victims of an intensive hateful propaganda campaign propped up by the "good guys" of the military industrial complex & have already lost their original homeland because they refused to yield to colonization efforts.


Actually a fair point. I was actually thinking that near the end. I think there was a bit of disservice done to Jude Law's character because they really could have made him into a so much deeper character who, one on one with Carol has a true and deep friendship with her and tries to do right by her but on the other hand does hold a high rank and was brought up by the Kree government and is deeply rooted in their philosophy.

That could have been such an interesting dynamic to play out. Instead they turned him into a self-centered, misogynist because 'grr, arrgh, I'm the bad guy bwahaha'.

So I guess my over all point is, yeah, it's not perfect. Yeah, there were parts that got preachy. No I didn't like those parts. But it's become so much of what I'm just kinda used to that I've kinda given up trying to fight it.
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Before you do anything you can't undo...National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 1-800-273-8255



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