Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  TheMightyMol... : (19 April 2021 - 04:30 AM)

Truly the crossover I never knew I needed in my life.

@  Steevy Maximus : (18 April 2021 - 08:39 PM)

Dude! Tubi Tv has the Earthworm Jim cartoon! And Chuck Norris and Denver!

@  Donocropolis : (18 April 2021 - 05:51 PM)

Bianary Breakdown

@  Sabrblade : (18 April 2021 - 04:55 PM)

1010011011101110111001101111001110101100001100101110011101

@  PlutoniumBoss : (18 April 2021 - 02:10 PM)

5318008

@  Telly : (18 April 2021 - 02:00 PM)

8675309

@  tigerhawk : (17 April 2021 - 03:52 PM)

0118999881999119725 3

@  TheMightyMol... : (17 April 2021 - 06:55 AM)

No, he's just old.

@  wonko the sane? : (17 April 2021 - 06:49 AM)

I think he might have had a stroke...

@  TheMightyMol... : (17 April 2021 - 04:55 AM)

Phrasing!

@  LioConvoy : (16 April 2021 - 11:05 PM)

NEED

@  LioConvoy : (16 April 2021 - 11:04 PM)

BEAST GENERAL

@  Sabrblade : (16 April 2021 - 07:04 PM)

I dunno if to call them the worst salesperson ever or the best.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (16 April 2021 - 01:33 PM)

They must not have really wanted to sell you anything.

@  Sabrblade : (16 April 2021 - 09:19 AM)

This just happened to be the first time one ever gave up and walked away immediately after ringing the bell. Like, no patience at all or something.

@  Sabrblade : (16 April 2021 - 09:17 AM)

Covid didn't stop salespeople from coming to my neighborhood. They are still a consistent annoyance.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 April 2021 - 08:16 AM)

Random like "Why does god allow terrible things?" or random like "You can see them too?!?"?

@  Echowarrior : (16 April 2021 - 07:36 AM)

And yet, I still have to deal with random idiots on the street asking me random questions.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 April 2021 - 04:04 PM)

door to door salesmen (or those offering religion) certainly are one of the things lost to COVID that I've missed the least

@  Sabrblade : (15 April 2021 - 10:07 AM)

They rang the bell and were walking away before I even got to the door mere seconds later.

@  Sabrblade : (15 April 2021 - 10:06 AM)

I just got ding-dong-ditched by a salesperson.

@  tigerhawk : (14 April 2021 - 01:20 AM)

Sure he's a peeping tom but every single Scottish person does it!

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 April 2021 - 08:09 PM)

Groundskeeper Wheelie say you're going to taste my rake today!

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 April 2021 - 06:57 PM)

"If elected mayor, me first act will be ta KILL THA WHOLE LOT 'A YA, AND.......I know it's on!"

@  Steevy Maximus : (13 April 2021 - 01:57 PM)

Campaign slogan? "Its Willie time!"

@  tigerhawk : (13 April 2021 - 10:15 AM)

I'd vote for Groundskeeper Wullie.

@  Donocropolis : (13 April 2021 - 07:25 AM)

A comic, yes, but we need a figure!

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (13 April 2021 - 06:27 AM)

No.. It's Tiberious Maximus... And there is a comic with such already. :D

@  Donocropolis : (12 April 2021 - 11:15 AM)

Yes. Color it like the Energon version of Unicron. Also, give us Fortress Tiberious.

@  wonko the sane? : (12 April 2021 - 09:49 AM)

Great. Now I want a borg cube unicron...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (12 April 2021 - 09:00 AM)

We still need Transformers x Star Trek toy.

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 April 2021 - 05:39 AM)

I saw most of them at retail at TRU, but that's not an option in the US anymore.

@  tigerhawk : (12 April 2021 - 04:21 AM)

Dibs on naming the Ark robot Arkonus.

@  Kalidor : (11 April 2021 - 09:48 PM)

The only Titan figure I ever saw at retail was Trypticon at Ollie's

@  PlutoniumBoss : (11 April 2021 - 09:12 PM)

Robosen Prime has market crossover with not just the toy collectors, but robotics enthusiasts quite willing to pay that price for a product like this.

@  wonko the sane? : (11 April 2021 - 08:33 PM)

One of my two local TRUs will stock exactly ONE titan at a time. It usually ends up "clearanced" for about 20 bucks off cause no one is willing to pay for at full price OR discounted.

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 April 2021 - 07:56 PM)

Most stores don't seem to want to stock Commanders or Titans, never mind Unicron.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 April 2021 - 07:55 PM)

I wonder if Unicron going to crowdfuning wasn't just a price issue but also stores not wanting to stock and transport something so huge.

@  TM2-Megatron : (11 April 2021 - 07:47 PM)

It is, although this thing could also be considered a STEM educational tool

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 April 2021 - 07:33 PM)

Doesn't change the fact that, for most people, $700 is a pretty hefty investment for a toy.

@  TM2-Megatron : (11 April 2021 - 07:17 PM)

I dunno, $700 doesn't seem that bad for what it does. Some of those Masterpiece figures seem to go for at least half that price, and they don't have any actual robots or even electronics.

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 April 2021 - 05:35 PM)

Not to mention wallet-shattering.

@  LBD "Nyt... : (11 April 2021 - 04:30 PM)

It's a jargon-shattering figure.

@  Kalidor : (10 April 2021 - 08:50 PM)

The licensed Optimus Prime that transforms itself is the appropriate usage of the term "Third Party"

@  Donocropolis : (10 April 2021 - 08:24 AM)

That Optimus isn't built by Hasbro, only licensed. The company that makes it has been making similar robots for years, so no crowdfundng required.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 April 2021 - 08:05 AM)

Apparently they're selling one for 74 and a half thousand dollars.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 April 2021 - 08:01 AM)

We could write boston dynamics and ask?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 April 2021 - 07:59 AM)

Granted, I'm not sure how much robots with elaborate movement tend to go for.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 April 2021 - 07:56 AM)

I think with actual robotics it was easier to justify selling it at a high cost, compared to an unusually large action figure.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (10 April 2021 - 05:06 AM)

It is a very impressive display of robotics though.


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

BotCon 2016 Predacus Revealed! Registration Now Up! More Art & Info pg9 & 10.


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
1116 replies to this topic

#281 Creedence

Creedence

    borf borf

  • Citizen
  • 9217 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 08:56 PM

people like $325 surprises right????

#282 Spectre

Spectre
  • Retired Staff
  • 10640 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:01 PM

It has "I couldn't figure out how else to spend my money" tampographed in gold across the chest.  



#283 ExVee

ExVee

    That Kup, he is a Chear

  • Supporter
  • 9359 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:02 PM

They decided that it had worked well enough with the subscriptions that they could roll it in to the mainstream.

I doubt it'll even amount to a swapped color sprue, I'm envisioning modified paint deco. On that podcast Pete said the troop builder set this year would be less expensive. The most obvious way to accomplish that is by selling a three pack of Legends instead of Deluxes, and the gold ticket Legend will probably be the same thing but with "squad leader" deco of some kind.

#284 Pete

Pete

    MunkyTrukk

  • VIP
  • 1603 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:07 PM

 

Personally, the way alternative version reads, it's just a slight redecoed version of one of the toys you can already get.

 

(I'd laugh if it was basically the whole Onyx Primal thing again.)

 

I'm assuming it's like a mold sprue share or something that isn't that all that desirable otherwise so I'm fine passing on it.

 

Now if it was say Bad Boy from Legends Powerglide I might be tempted.

 

Odd they'll tell us what's in the $399 set but expect us to shell out for $325 for a single Legend (and priority seating!) sight unseen.

 

 This is an added bonus on TOP of everything else that has come with the GT for the last few years. People have paid for the GT without even having the toy. Up to people if they want to go for it, but GT is about more than this figure. I realize though for some, it will be mainly about this figure. 



#285 BraveMax

BraveMax
  • Citizen
  • 308 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:21 PM

That's one way to ratchet up the after-market value of your product.

 

GT is limited to 100 people, right? That means this toy will be LE 100 as well. I mean, that's not QUITE lucky draw territory, but it does make it pretty ridiculously rare.



#286 Pete

Pete

    MunkyTrukk

  • VIP
  • 1603 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:37 PM

110. Yes, I know it's only 10 more...

#287 BraveMax

BraveMax
  • Citizen
  • 308 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:53 PM

110. Yes, I know it's only 10 more...

 

I mean... If you want to get technical, that's a 10% increase in availability. Yay?



#288 lastmaximal

lastmaximal

    Cyber Key Power...linx!

  • Staff
  • 15011 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:24 PM

To then make it only available via some $400 add-on (like they're doing this year), or to have so many that their average attendee can't afford all of them just seems mean.
 
I mean, you can argue that I shouldn't expect to be able to secure a toy for every character I love (even if one is available), but that's hardly compulsion or feeling entitled.


I hate to break it to you, but the expectation of being able to secure that toy -- and holding your inability to do so against them (just seems mean) is not without a sense of entitlement. It's one thing to be disappointed that you can't get Toy X (I've been there with FP), and it's another to argue against the way Toy X is made and sold because of it.

If as you say they make Character X desirable enough to want a Toy of (which happens to be in the set), then they've done their job both as storytellers and promoters obliged to market the set. The fact that some can't afford Toy X doesn't and should not factor into their thought process at all. There will always be people who can't secure it one way or the other because of the realities of the process.


SO OKAY IT'S AVERAGE
Virtually every custom as good as the title suggests!
SoOkayItsAverage.2.gif


#289 Spark

Spark
  • Citizen
  • 39394 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:50 PM

This thread simultaneously makes me realize I'll miss most of FP's toy design choices and pretty much none of their business practices.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#290 MrBlud

MrBlud

    Goes down smooth...

  • Retired Staff
  • 52898 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:01 PM

If as you say they make Character X desirable enough to want a Toy of (which happens to be in the set), then they've done their job both as storytellers and promoters obliged to market the set. The fact that some can't afford Toy X doesn't and should not factor into their thought process at all. There will always be people who can't secure it one way or the other because of the realities of the process.

I'd love a set of Squadron X, the Scavengers, the Wreckers, and the DJD.

Making a $5000 set of all that available for three days at one location that quite probably necessitates another $500 in travel and lodging expenses would not (I think we can agree) be a good business decision.

There is a point of diminishing returns even if we all don't agree when that point is.

Edited by MrBlud, 19 January 2016 - 11:01 PM.

card-strongarm.jpg


#291 Spark

Spark
  • Citizen
  • 39394 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:08 PM

I'd really rather they just tell me what the Golden Ticket exclusive is, since I was kind of on the fence (that "no autographs" bit kind of stings) and this has a tiny chance of pushing me over.  But if you don't tell me, it kind of just annoys me.  As has always been the case with FP's goofy surprise fixation.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#292 BraveMax

BraveMax
  • Citizen
  • 308 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:09 PM

 

To then make it only available via some $400 add-on (like they're doing this year), or to have so many that their average attendee can't afford all of them just seems mean.
 
I mean, you can argue that I shouldn't expect to be able to secure a toy for every character I love (even if one is available), but that's hardly compulsion or feeling entitled.


I hate to break it to you, but the expectation of being able to secure that toy -- and holding your inability to do so against them (just seems mean) is not without a sense of entitlement. It's one thing to be disappointed that you can't get Toy X (I've been there with FP), and it's another to argue against the way Toy X is made and sold because of it.

If as you say they make Character X desirable enough to want a Toy of (which happens to be in the set), then they've done their job both as storytellers and promoters obliged to market the set. The fact that some can't afford Toy X doesn't and should not factor into their thought process at all. There will always be people who can't secure it one way or the other because of the realities of the process.

 

 

That's fair, I guess. Let's approach this from another angle.

 

It's in FuP's best interest to sell as many of these as possible, right? They don't create characters just to create them; they create them to entice people to pay for toys of them. Let's assume they do this job well, and that there are a relatively stable number of people who will buy their toys in a given year. Well, we've seen a large number of these exclusives not sell out in recent years. That suggests, to me, that they have either: a) failed to entice people into buying their toys or b) produced so many toys for a high enough price that their core consumer target can't afford to purchase all of them (even if they want to). In reality, it's probably a combination of both. Regardless, having unsold toys at the end is definitely a worse situation for FuP than selling fewer toys than they theoretically could have; after all, they've paid for those unsold toys up front. My flippancy ("that's just mean") aside, their business goal is to try to hit that sweet spot: create/sell just enough toys that they could not have sold a single toy more, while also leaving no toy unsold. Clearly they've been over-shooting that goal.

 

That brings up the question of why. Pete himself recently acknowledged that fans simply have more to spend their money on these days. That suggests, tacitly, a recognition that the value proposition for FuP exclusives has changed. They are not worth what they once were to FuP's core consumer. These days, the cost of a FuP repaint is about the same as many brand new 3P toys, and Hasbro is putting out a HUGE amount of collector-facing product at higher and higher prices. FuP's core consumers are being pulled in multiple directions, and their other options are worth more to them than FuP's exclusives.

 

In such a situation, FuP has two options: increase the value provided by their products (which, in most cases, involves adding additional cost to the offering, thereby lowering FuP's margin) or decrease the price of their products (which also decreases their margin). Another way they can accomplish essentially the same thing, in the mind of many of their target consumers, is to spread the cost of their offerings out to lessen the immediate impact on their wallet. This, I'd suggest, is the reason that the TFSS, membership fee, and annual exclusives exist in addition to Botcon: by offering those products bit by bit over the course of the year, they make it easier for consumers to afford the total "package" of products they offer. Kind of like a payment plan.

 

I'd argue that the failure of recent Botcon sets to sell out suggests that they haven't quite balanced this "payment plan" correctly in the face of changing consumer willingness to pay. If that theory is correct, decreasing the number of toys they sell at Botcon would actually increase their over-all profit by decreasing the unnecessary costs of marketing, designing, and producing toys that (enough of) their target consumers can't buy anyways.

 

The TLDR is basically that your argument is only sound if MOST of FuP's target consumers can afford to buy all or most of the product they produce (That would make me just salty because I'm one of the few who can't; not that it's anyone's business, but I can...). The evidence we have suggests that's not true. Of course, this entire post assumes FuP has done a good job of developing product their consumers want, but if they haven't accomplished that either... Then, well, producing as many toys as they have been still doesn't make business sense. The tired "produce a bunch of different toys so there's something for everyone" is simply bad business sense.

 

(EDIT: It's bad business sense because there are start-up costs involved with producing an additional exclusive toy; if you produce fewer of each toy because each toy is targeted at a certain market which will not be buying the other toys, you're going to make less money on ALL the toys than if you simply made a single toy that was a "crowd-pleaser". That's why Hasbro does what they do.)


Edited by BraveMax, 19 January 2016 - 11:30 PM.


#293 lastmaximal

lastmaximal

    Cyber Key Power...linx!

  • Staff
  • 15011 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:21 PM

This other angle makes more sense to me.


SO OKAY IT'S AVERAGE
Virtually every custom as good as the title suggests!
SoOkayItsAverage.2.gif


#294 M Sipher

M Sipher

    All hail Newmie.

  • Citizen
  • 12550 posts

Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:57 PM

It's almost like the answer is somewhere in the middle or something.

 

Look, 3H's exclusive numbers are simply not something a TF convention can actually work with at this point. The franchise is too damn big. Back when we only got 20~30 toys a year, two more was a big damn deal. And I'd also like to point out that 3H was pushing more and bigger toys in its final years as the franchise was growing at retail.

 

In the post-movie era of hundreds of products a year at retail, much easier access to imports, and a large amount of collector-aimed stuff both domestic and import, two-ish con exclusives just will. Not. Cut it. Especially when Hasbro's putting out 6-figure box sets for Comic-Cons. So a box set of five/six figures is a bit of a bare minimum, and that's before getting into the specifics of what they actually are.

 

How much more AFTER that box set is healthy for both fans and the producers, though, I think there's room for reasoned debate.

 

 

M "Not To Mention The Nature/Price Tag Of Such" Sipher


The ISLE OF RANGOON - Advantures in Learning and Sarcasm!
Holy crap Sipher has a Tumblr apparently!
http://www.tfwiki.net - We left Wikia before it was cool to do so!

"I don't know whether it's a new thing, but it's certainly a current thing, in that it doesn't seem to matter what facts are. It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."
- Stephen Colbert

#295 BraveMax

BraveMax
  • Citizen
  • 308 posts

Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:11 AM

It's almost like the answer is somewhere in the middle or something.

 

Look, 3H's exclusive numbers are simply not something a TF convention can actually work with at this point. The franchise is too damn big. Back when we only got 20~30 toys a year, two more was a big damn deal. And I'd also like to point out that 3H was pushing more and bigger toys in its final years as the franchise was growing at retail.

 

In the post-movie era of hundreds of products a year at retail, much easier access to imports, and a large amount of collector-aimed stuff both domestic and import, two-ish con exclusives just will. Not. Cut it. Especially when Hasbro's putting out 6-figure box sets for Comic-Cons. So a box set of five/six figures is a bit of a bare minimum, and that's before getting into the specifics of what they actually are.

 

How much more AFTER that box set is healthy for both fans and the producers, though, I think there's room for reasoned debate.

 

 

M "Not To Mention The Nature/Price Tag Of Such" Sipher

 

Could you explain why the fact that there are more TF toys on the market today means that Botcon MUST have MORE toys than it used to have? I'm afraid I don't see the connection.


Edited by BraveMax, 20 January 2016 - 12:11 AM.


#296 lastmaximal

lastmaximal

    Cyber Key Power...linx!

  • Staff
  • 15011 posts

Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:46 AM

I'm wondering if there's a minimum amount of things to be produced before it becomes worthwhile for the factory or some such.


SO OKAY IT'S AVERAGE
Virtually every custom as good as the title suggests!
SoOkayItsAverage.2.gif


#297 M Sipher

M Sipher

    All hail Newmie.

  • Citizen
  • 12550 posts

Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:56 AM

"Pete himself recently acknowledged that fans simply have more to spend their money on these days. That suggests, tacitly, a recognition that the value proposition for FuP exclusives has changed. They are not worth what they once were to FuP's core consumer. These days, the cost of a FuP repaint is about the same as many brand new 3P toys, and Hasbro is putting out a HUGE amount of collector-facing product at higher and higher prices. FuP's core consumers are being pulled in multiple directions, and their other options are worth more to them than FuP's exclusives."

 

Sound familiar?

 

There's more out there to catch buyers' attentions (and $), and the odds of coming up with even one or two sure-fire everyone-must-get-everyone-will-love ideas that will distract from all that is... iffy, to put it charitably, especially with Hasbro and Takara's output. When goddamn new-mold MTMTE Magnus and Metroplex and Devastator and its ilk are happening, there's only so much comparative draw to a handful of new toolings on redecoes.

 

On an individual figure basis, there is SO MUCH out there just at normal retail, never mind the numerous Japanese limited mailaways and whatnot, PLUS the ridiculous not-Transformers-wink-wink market, that trying to gain hype with just one or two recycled-mold toys is... well, nigh suicide for an outside contractor. It's a risk Hasbro and Takara can swallow if it doesn't work (I can't imagine Dogfight is really gonna be that hot an item), there's loads elsewhere to make up for that.

 

Not so much for FP or 3H.

 

So while FP always TRIES to find some "centerpiece" that they think will wow the largest amount of people, it's a far safer bet to couple that goal with casting a broader net and working with a "theme", aiming to get a good grouping of toys that maybe won't light the world on fire individually, but will really appeal as a group... plus there's the "all in one go" purchase appeal. It feels GOOD to get a bunch of toys at once.

 

 

M "It's Not A SURE Bet, As Past Years Have Shown, But It's A Damn Sight Better Than Dumping That Burden On Just One Or Two Toys" Sipher


The ISLE OF RANGOON - Advantures in Learning and Sarcasm!
Holy crap Sipher has a Tumblr apparently!
http://www.tfwiki.net - We left Wikia before it was cool to do so!

"I don't know whether it's a new thing, but it's certainly a current thing, in that it doesn't seem to matter what facts are. It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."
- Stephen Colbert

#298 Sabrblade

Sabrblade

    Continuity Nutcase

  • Citizen
  • 32288 posts

Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:16 AM

Meanwhile, if Fun Pub goes under and BotCon comes to an end, there will be zero of these kinds of exclusives to deal with in the future, and with the amount of product offered from all of the venues Sipher mentioned, the Transformers can still thrive and survive without these kinds of exclusives. So even if it's 12 figures or 0 figures, they really don't seem to matter all that much in the grander scheme of things.


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#299 Walky

Walky

    King Kong Aventure Fudge

  • Citizen
  • 40686 posts

Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:54 AM

To celebrate being the last BotCon, the Golden Ticket exclusive will just be this year's Onyx Primal exclusive with a gold stamp on it.



#300 Sprocket

Sprocket

    Problematic.

  • Citizen
  • 9805 posts

Posted 20 January 2016 - 03:42 AM

 

shoulders why they hurt

 

FTFY

 

 

Why do my shoulders hurt in space like this


Being part of any fandom is fundamentally embarassing.