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@  Telly : (27 March 2017 - 05:18 PM)

was referring more to how he was suspected of being a traitor in g1. and dreamwave. and 2001 rid. it was sarcastic, hence the :rolleyes  lol

@  Rycochet : (27 March 2017 - 05:10 PM)

Don't expect major events to be forshadowed.

@  Telly : (27 March 2017 - 04:57 PM)

wow! what a twist! mirage is suspected of being a traitor! :rolleyes

@  Telly : (27 March 2017 - 04:49 PM)

yeah im only on issue 4 and its only been like 30 minutes since i started. lots of splash pages and very little dialog

@  unitremover : (27 March 2017 - 04:47 PM)

I read it for the first time about a year ago and my main problem with it was just how little content there seemed to be in the individual issues. I remember thinking that it took probably three issues before I felt like it had really delivered a "proper" issue's worth of story.

@  Telly : (27 March 2017 - 04:33 PM)

id rather read about the galaxy-wide war than yet another story on earth. thats one of the things i loved about formerly r.i.d. but when they went back before combiner wars i lost interest. i read til all are one because of this.

@  Rycochet : (27 March 2017 - 04:24 PM)

It's one of those stories that gets slightly better with age because you know that IDW comics recover, but at the time it was a massive step back, a complex universe where the war was being fought across the galaxy swept away offpanel and replaced by n episode of the cartoon with blood..And there's a fan character we were told we were going to love, inserted to lecture the Autobots.

@  Bass X0 : (27 March 2017 - 04:12 PM)

Its not a bad story really, but then I've read actual bad TF event stories by IDW that came later. There is one major turnabout that happens off panel with no explanation that should have been addressed better though.

@  Telly : (27 March 2017 - 04:08 PM)

im about to start reading all hail megatron. wish me luck...

@  RC85747 : (27 March 2017 - 03:56 PM)

Bow to the evil unicorn

@  RichardT1977 : (27 March 2017 - 03:55 PM)

The G1 film had multiple good songs.

@  Dracula : (27 March 2017 - 03:37 PM)

he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed

@  Robowang : (27 March 2017 - 03:36 PM)

he's fat.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (27 March 2017 - 02:39 PM)

What do y'all think of Shrek?

@  Evac : (27 March 2017 - 01:51 PM)

Put down that chainsaw and listen to me! It's time for us to join in the fight!

@  Evac : (27 March 2017 - 01:51 PM)

At least the G1 film had one good song.

@  Boomhauer : (27 March 2017 - 01:27 PM)

I think I'd rather take neither, because ROTF being awful doesn't magically make the G1 Film stop being terrible.

@  Bass X0 : (27 March 2017 - 12:56 PM)

I'll take a children's movie where everyone talks like Wreck-Gar over a children's movie that has dog sex, masturbation, drugs, golden showers and enemy scrotum.

@  Rycochet : (27 March 2017 - 12:12 PM)

Oh-ee-yay! Talespin!

@  TheMightyMol... : (27 March 2017 - 10:09 AM)

Superman.....

@  Sabrblade : (27 March 2017 - 09:27 AM)

"I... am not... a gun."

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 03:42 PM)

Another great 90's animated film is, of course, The Iron Giant.

@  RichardT1977 : (26 March 2017 - 03:25 PM)

Another thing I liked about The Prince of Egypt was that it explained (without even having to say it outright) why Moses was chosen to deliver the Israelites from Egypt. Someone who had been raised among the slaves would have had too much bitterness and would want to go in throwing the wrath of God on all the Egyptians (or at least the royal family) until they all burned alive. But Moses had been raised as a member of the royal family, so he still thought of them as family. He wanted to reach a peaceful solution if at all possible.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 03:04 PM)

"I know! I'll turn him into a flea. A harmless little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then put that box inside of another box, and when it arrives - AHAHAHA! I'LL SMASH IT WITH A HAMMAH! It's brilliant, brilliant, BRILLIANT, I tell you! Genius, I say!"

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 03:03 PM)

Hell, The Emperor's New Groove is easily the funniest animated film ever. Disney managed to do what Dreamworks tried to do, and they did it right.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 03:02 PM)

None of their "funny" movies are anywhere near as funny as Aladdin or The Emperor's New Groove.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 03:02 PM)

Its a pity Dreamworks devolved into a company that churned out "funny" films filled with pop culture references.

@  RichardT1977 : (26 March 2017 - 03:00 PM)

(also at the end of that scene, the camera pans up from the Egyptian skyline to the night sky and the most prominent constellation is Orion. Which the Egyptians associated with Osiris)

@  RichardT1977 : (26 March 2017 - 02:59 PM)

Yeah I give them full credit for treating the Last Plague with all the solemness it deserves.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 02:59 PM)

It freed the Israelites, but Moses sure hated seeing what it did to his brother and all the normal non-slave owning people who didn't do anything wrong to the Israelites.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 02:58 PM)

And it actually portrays God murdering children as a tragic thing, something most other adaptations disturbingly don't do.

@  RichardT1977 : (26 March 2017 - 02:57 PM)

So that what He told Moses becomes, "I'll lay the smackdown on Egypt, but I should warn you it's only gonna make Rameses dig in his heels more until I have no choice but to break him fully."

@  RichardT1977 : (26 March 2017 - 02:56 PM)

It also describes the "hardening of the Pharoah's heart" as his natural reaction to the plagues rather than an intentional mental override by God.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 02:54 PM)

Hell, it actually portrays the Plagues as something that's bad and treats most of the Egyptian people as not deserving that shit. "All the innocent who suffer from your stubbornness and pride" and all that.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 02:53 PM)

I'm a Christian, but Prince of Egypt is one of the few religious movies I'll willingly watch, because it's actually good instead of being self-rightous preachy nonsense, batshit crazy propaganda or schmaltzy trash. It also has a great soundtrack with music that I actually put up there with some of Disney's best stuff.

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 02:45 PM)

Dreamworks's best movies will always be the Dragons movies and The Prince of Egypt.

@  TM2-Megatron : (26 March 2017 - 02:40 PM)

Usually I'm willing to give animated films a go, but I have to agree this looked pretty terrible and I had no desire to see it

@  Patchouli Kn... : (26 March 2017 - 02:40 PM)

So it's the new "Bee Movie?"

@  Evac : (26 March 2017 - 02:16 PM)

Calling it now: it'll be a meme in ten years.

@  Paladin : (26 March 2017 - 02:07 PM)

every single person who said "yes" to BOSS BABY should be smacked. repeatedly. with adamantium.

@  MEDdMI : (26 March 2017 - 06:02 AM)

Yeah, I don't sync my Twitter since it's irrelevant to a TF forum and sometimes NSFW.

@  LBD "Nyt... : (26 March 2017 - 06:00 AM)

Ah, okay. I... don't know if that's a good idea or not. I post a lot of cats.

@  MEDdMI : (26 March 2017 - 05:50 AM)

I believe it will auto post anything you put on Twitter/Facebook to the Status section on the main forum page?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (26 March 2017 - 05:41 AM)

And I totally miss Krispy Kreme. I mean, they're still around here, but nowhere I don't have to go well out of my way for any more. =(

@  LBD "Nyt... : (26 March 2017 - 05:40 AM)

"i think you can sync profiles from both to this site." Not clear on what that means.

@  MEDdMI : (26 March 2017 - 05:04 AM)

:D I'm glad I have people and sheep who are willing to eat doughnuts for me.

@  Bass X0 : (26 March 2017 - 04:48 AM)

YOU'RE ALREADY CRAZY, MR. "I AM SHRAPNEL, DECEPTICON HERO"!!

@  Waspinator : (26 March 2017 - 04:45 AM)

DON'T MIND IF I DO

@  WorkbenchManiac : (26 March 2017 - 04:07 AM)

Go crazy?

@  Waspinator : (26 March 2017 - 03:31 AM)

No TV and no beer make Homer something something


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BotCon 2016 Predacus Revealed! Registration Now Up! More Art & Info pg9 & 10.


1116 replies to this topic

#281 Creedence

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 08:56 PM

people like $325 surprises right????

#282 Spectre

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:01 PM

It has "I couldn't figure out how else to spend my money" tampographed in gold across the chest.  



#283 ExVee

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:02 PM

They decided that it had worked well enough with the subscriptions that they could roll it in to the mainstream.

I doubt it'll even amount to a swapped color sprue, I'm envisioning modified paint deco. On that podcast Pete said the troop builder set this year would be less expensive. The most obvious way to accomplish that is by selling a three pack of Legends instead of Deluxes, and the gold ticket Legend will probably be the same thing but with "squad leader" deco of some kind.

#284 Petes Robot Con

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:07 PM

 

Personally, the way alternative version reads, it's just a slight redecoed version of one of the toys you can already get.

 

(I'd laugh if it was basically the whole Onyx Primal thing again.)

 

I'm assuming it's like a mold sprue share or something that isn't that all that desirable otherwise so I'm fine passing on it.

 

Now if it was say Bad Boy from Legends Powerglide I might be tempted.

 

Odd they'll tell us what's in the $399 set but expect us to shell out for $325 for a single Legend (and priority seating!) sight unseen.

 

 This is an added bonus on TOP of everything else that has come with the GT for the last few years. People have paid for the GT without even having the toy. Up to people if they want to go for it, but GT is about more than this figure. I realize though for some, it will be mainly about this figure. 



#285 BraveMax

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:21 PM

That's one way to ratchet up the after-market value of your product.

 

GT is limited to 100 people, right? That means this toy will be LE 100 as well. I mean, that's not QUITE lucky draw territory, but it does make it pretty ridiculously rare.



#286 Petes Robot Con

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:37 PM

110. Yes, I know it's only 10 more...

#287 BraveMax

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:53 PM

110. Yes, I know it's only 10 more...

 

I mean... If you want to get technical, that's a 10% increase in availability. Yay?



#288 lastmaximal

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:24 PM

To then make it only available via some $400 add-on (like they're doing this year), or to have so many that their average attendee can't afford all of them just seems mean.
 
I mean, you can argue that I shouldn't expect to be able to secure a toy for every character I love (even if one is available), but that's hardly compulsion or feeling entitled.


I hate to break it to you, but the expectation of being able to secure that toy -- and holding your inability to do so against them (just seems mean) is not without a sense of entitlement. It's one thing to be disappointed that you can't get Toy X (I've been there with FP), and it's another to argue against the way Toy X is made and sold because of it.

If as you say they make Character X desirable enough to want a Toy of (which happens to be in the set), then they've done their job both as storytellers and promoters obliged to market the set. The fact that some can't afford Toy X doesn't and should not factor into their thought process at all. There will always be people who can't secure it one way or the other because of the realities of the process.


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#289 Spark

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:50 PM

This thread simultaneously makes me realize I'll miss most of FP's toy design choices and pretty much none of their business practices.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#290 MrBlud

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:01 PM

If as you say they make Character X desirable enough to want a Toy of (which happens to be in the set), then they've done their job both as storytellers and promoters obliged to market the set. The fact that some can't afford Toy X doesn't and should not factor into their thought process at all. There will always be people who can't secure it one way or the other because of the realities of the process.

I'd love a set of Squadron X, the Scavengers, the Wreckers, and the DJD.

Making a $5000 set of all that available for three days at one location that quite probably necessitates another $500 in travel and lodging expenses would not (I think we can agree) be a good business decision.

There is a point of diminishing returns even if we all don't agree when that point is.

Edited by MrBlud, 19 January 2016 - 11:01 PM.

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#291 Spark

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:08 PM

I'd really rather they just tell me what the Golden Ticket exclusive is, since I was kind of on the fence (that "no autographs" bit kind of stings) and this has a tiny chance of pushing me over.  But if you don't tell me, it kind of just annoys me.  As has always been the case with FP's goofy surprise fixation.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#292 BraveMax

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:09 PM

 

To then make it only available via some $400 add-on (like they're doing this year), or to have so many that their average attendee can't afford all of them just seems mean.
 
I mean, you can argue that I shouldn't expect to be able to secure a toy for every character I love (even if one is available), but that's hardly compulsion or feeling entitled.


I hate to break it to you, but the expectation of being able to secure that toy -- and holding your inability to do so against them (just seems mean) is not without a sense of entitlement. It's one thing to be disappointed that you can't get Toy X (I've been there with FP), and it's another to argue against the way Toy X is made and sold because of it.

If as you say they make Character X desirable enough to want a Toy of (which happens to be in the set), then they've done their job both as storytellers and promoters obliged to market the set. The fact that some can't afford Toy X doesn't and should not factor into their thought process at all. There will always be people who can't secure it one way or the other because of the realities of the process.

 

 

That's fair, I guess. Let's approach this from another angle.

 

It's in FuP's best interest to sell as many of these as possible, right? They don't create characters just to create them; they create them to entice people to pay for toys of them. Let's assume they do this job well, and that there are a relatively stable number of people who will buy their toys in a given year. Well, we've seen a large number of these exclusives not sell out in recent years. That suggests, to me, that they have either: a) failed to entice people into buying their toys or b) produced so many toys for a high enough price that their core consumer target can't afford to purchase all of them (even if they want to). In reality, it's probably a combination of both. Regardless, having unsold toys at the end is definitely a worse situation for FuP than selling fewer toys than they theoretically could have; after all, they've paid for those unsold toys up front. My flippancy ("that's just mean") aside, their business goal is to try to hit that sweet spot: create/sell just enough toys that they could not have sold a single toy more, while also leaving no toy unsold. Clearly they've been over-shooting that goal.

 

That brings up the question of why. Pete himself recently acknowledged that fans simply have more to spend their money on these days. That suggests, tacitly, a recognition that the value proposition for FuP exclusives has changed. They are not worth what they once were to FuP's core consumer. These days, the cost of a FuP repaint is about the same as many brand new 3P toys, and Hasbro is putting out a HUGE amount of collector-facing product at higher and higher prices. FuP's core consumers are being pulled in multiple directions, and their other options are worth more to them than FuP's exclusives.

 

In such a situation, FuP has two options: increase the value provided by their products (which, in most cases, involves adding additional cost to the offering, thereby lowering FuP's margin) or decrease the price of their products (which also decreases their margin). Another way they can accomplish essentially the same thing, in the mind of many of their target consumers, is to spread the cost of their offerings out to lessen the immediate impact on their wallet. This, I'd suggest, is the reason that the TFSS, membership fee, and annual exclusives exist in addition to Botcon: by offering those products bit by bit over the course of the year, they make it easier for consumers to afford the total "package" of products they offer. Kind of like a payment plan.

 

I'd argue that the failure of recent Botcon sets to sell out suggests that they haven't quite balanced this "payment plan" correctly in the face of changing consumer willingness to pay. If that theory is correct, decreasing the number of toys they sell at Botcon would actually increase their over-all profit by decreasing the unnecessary costs of marketing, designing, and producing toys that (enough of) their target consumers can't buy anyways.

 

The TLDR is basically that your argument is only sound if MOST of FuP's target consumers can afford to buy all or most of the product they produce (That would make me just salty because I'm one of the few who can't; not that it's anyone's business, but I can...). The evidence we have suggests that's not true. Of course, this entire post assumes FuP has done a good job of developing product their consumers want, but if they haven't accomplished that either... Then, well, producing as many toys as they have been still doesn't make business sense. The tired "produce a bunch of different toys so there's something for everyone" is simply bad business sense.

 

(EDIT: It's bad business sense because there are start-up costs involved with producing an additional exclusive toy; if you produce fewer of each toy because each toy is targeted at a certain market which will not be buying the other toys, you're going to make less money on ALL the toys than if you simply made a single toy that was a "crowd-pleaser". That's why Hasbro does what they do.)


Edited by BraveMax, 19 January 2016 - 11:30 PM.


#293 lastmaximal

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:21 PM

This other angle makes more sense to me.


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#294 M Sipher

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:57 PM

It's almost like the answer is somewhere in the middle or something.

 

Look, 3H's exclusive numbers are simply not something a TF convention can actually work with at this point. The franchise is too damn big. Back when we only got 20~30 toys a year, two more was a big damn deal. And I'd also like to point out that 3H was pushing more and bigger toys in its final years as the franchise was growing at retail.

 

In the post-movie era of hundreds of products a year at retail, much easier access to imports, and a large amount of collector-aimed stuff both domestic and import, two-ish con exclusives just will. Not. Cut it. Especially when Hasbro's putting out 6-figure box sets for Comic-Cons. So a box set of five/six figures is a bit of a bare minimum, and that's before getting into the specifics of what they actually are.

 

How much more AFTER that box set is healthy for both fans and the producers, though, I think there's room for reasoned debate.

 

 

M "Not To Mention The Nature/Price Tag Of Such" Sipher


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#295 BraveMax

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:11 AM

It's almost like the answer is somewhere in the middle or something.

 

Look, 3H's exclusive numbers are simply not something a TF convention can actually work with at this point. The franchise is too damn big. Back when we only got 20~30 toys a year, two more was a big damn deal. And I'd also like to point out that 3H was pushing more and bigger toys in its final years as the franchise was growing at retail.

 

In the post-movie era of hundreds of products a year at retail, much easier access to imports, and a large amount of collector-aimed stuff both domestic and import, two-ish con exclusives just will. Not. Cut it. Especially when Hasbro's putting out 6-figure box sets for Comic-Cons. So a box set of five/six figures is a bit of a bare minimum, and that's before getting into the specifics of what they actually are.

 

How much more AFTER that box set is healthy for both fans and the producers, though, I think there's room for reasoned debate.

 

 

M "Not To Mention The Nature/Price Tag Of Such" Sipher

 

Could you explain why the fact that there are more TF toys on the market today means that Botcon MUST have MORE toys than it used to have? I'm afraid I don't see the connection.


Edited by BraveMax, 20 January 2016 - 12:11 AM.


#296 lastmaximal

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:46 AM

I'm wondering if there's a minimum amount of things to be produced before it becomes worthwhile for the factory or some such.


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#297 M Sipher

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:56 AM

"Pete himself recently acknowledged that fans simply have more to spend their money on these days. That suggests, tacitly, a recognition that the value proposition for FuP exclusives has changed. They are not worth what they once were to FuP's core consumer. These days, the cost of a FuP repaint is about the same as many brand new 3P toys, and Hasbro is putting out a HUGE amount of collector-facing product at higher and higher prices. FuP's core consumers are being pulled in multiple directions, and their other options are worth more to them than FuP's exclusives."

 

Sound familiar?

 

There's more out there to catch buyers' attentions (and $), and the odds of coming up with even one or two sure-fire everyone-must-get-everyone-will-love ideas that will distract from all that is... iffy, to put it charitably, especially with Hasbro and Takara's output. When goddamn new-mold MTMTE Magnus and Metroplex and Devastator and its ilk are happening, there's only so much comparative draw to a handful of new toolings on redecoes.

 

On an individual figure basis, there is SO MUCH out there just at normal retail, never mind the numerous Japanese limited mailaways and whatnot, PLUS the ridiculous not-Transformers-wink-wink market, that trying to gain hype with just one or two recycled-mold toys is... well, nigh suicide for an outside contractor. It's a risk Hasbro and Takara can swallow if it doesn't work (I can't imagine Dogfight is really gonna be that hot an item), there's loads elsewhere to make up for that.

 

Not so much for FP or 3H.

 

So while FP always TRIES to find some "centerpiece" that they think will wow the largest amount of people, it's a far safer bet to couple that goal with casting a broader net and working with a "theme", aiming to get a good grouping of toys that maybe won't light the world on fire individually, but will really appeal as a group... plus there's the "all in one go" purchase appeal. It feels GOOD to get a bunch of toys at once.

 

 

M "It's Not A SURE Bet, As Past Years Have Shown, But It's A Damn Sight Better Than Dumping That Burden On Just One Or Two Toys" Sipher


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#298 Sabrblade

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:16 AM

Meanwhile, if Fun Pub goes under and BotCon comes to an end, there will be zero of these kinds of exclusives to deal with in the future, and with the amount of product offered from all of the venues Sipher mentioned, the Transformers can still thrive and survive without these kinds of exclusives. So even if it's 12 figures or 0 figures, they really don't seem to matter all that much in the grander scheme of things.


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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#299 Walky

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:54 AM

To celebrate being the last BotCon, the Golden Ticket exclusive will just be this year's Onyx Primal exclusive with a gold stamp on it.



#300 Sprocket

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 03:42 AM

 

shoulders why they hurt

 

FTFY

 

 

Why do my shoulders hurt in space like this


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