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@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 02:14 PM)

I don't. They're a pain in the ass to repair.

@  Benbot : (12 November 2019 - 12:48 PM)

I wish car companies would bring back flip up headlights

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 09:07 AM)

Wear a hazmat suit. It's Walmart, they're used to weird.

@  wonko the sane? : (12 November 2019 - 07:54 AM)

2 inches of snow on the side of the house, 2 feet of snow on the deck. I hate this winter already.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (11 November 2019 - 11:33 PM)

But that requires actually going IN walmart. ;P

@  Liege : (11 November 2019 - 11:22 PM)

Pro tip for anyone hunting the for the Walmart 35th exclusives: try the seasonal aisles rather than the toy section. I found the display with all the exclusives and a bunch of the reflector wave practically untouched amongst those novelty arcade machines and a bunch of frozen merch.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:45 PM)

Although that does spark an idea for me. In a new continuity, Censere the Necrobot could be the herald Cityspeaker for Quintessa the Necrotitan just to play on their monikers utilizing Greek for dead, nekrós.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:26 PM)

I hate to burst your bubble, Maximus Ambus, but 90% of things said in IDW turned out to be amnesiac half-rememberings courtesy of Adaptus or outright lies courtesy of Shockwave.

@  Jenny : (11 November 2019 - 08:54 AM)

The toy's designed to look like Wipe-Out, anyway.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 08:14 AM)

Didn't they try to retcon that into a figure of speech because that connection went against everybody else's long-term plans?

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 November 2019 - 03:53 AM)

There's still some connection given Trypticon was created by Mortilus.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM)

Yeah that toy doesn't exactly look like Necrobot.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 08:24 PM)

But.... it's just "Necro" not "Necrobot".

@  TheMightyMol... : (10 November 2019 - 05:10 PM)

But why does the God of Death need a giant space kaiju? Wait, never mind, answered my own question.

@  Maximus Ambus : (10 November 2019 - 02:15 PM)

Yowza I just realised Titans Trypticon comes with Necro AKA Censere AKA Mortilus.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

I... think the best equivalent would actually be the British "There is room for improvement".

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

There's always a sense of irony to it, but what the ratio between irony (you really failed) and straightworwardness (at least you achieved something) is depends on the situation and the speaker.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:12 PM)

The meaning can be both literal (you succeed on one level but fail on another), or it can be utterly ironic (you fail in every regard but the most technical; or even worse, "you really gave your best"), and anything in between.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:10 PM)

For example: A singer can hit the notes really well, but clearly isn't a native speaker and what little of the lyrics you can make out sounds nothing like what it's supposed to be.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:06 PM)

The premise seems to be the mixing of technical and aesthetic technical qualities towards the overall success.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:05 PM)

But both "hollow victory" and pyrrhic victory" are referring to having lost as much as you've gained. IE; a battle was won but both armies were destroyed. The town being seiged is victorious, but all the soldiers are still dead. Nevermore's concept is more "You did it, but it's so ugly we don't know if you actually succeeded".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Alternately, one could probably also call it a "hollow victory".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Example: In the Powerpuff Girls episode "Uh Oh Dynamo", the monster-of-the-day was a really tough, giant-size one that required the use of a really destructive mech to defeat it. While the monster was ultimately beaten, the city of Townsville was utterly trashed by the mech's weapons in the process. So, while the city was saved from the monster, it was harmed even worse by the mech that saved it, making the victory bittersweet.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:32 AM)

@Nevermore, sounds to me like what one might call a "bittersweet victory". The goal was met, but at great cost or by disastrous result that call into question if the achieved goal could even be called a success.

@  Arvegtor : (10 November 2019 - 09:40 AM)

Seems to be close enough to "Pyrrhic victory"

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 November 2019 - 09:37 AM)

What do you get from putting the German term through a translator?

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 08:57 AM)

That is a ridiculously interesting concept. But I don't think english has a singular term for what you're describing.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 08:28 AM)

Is there an English equivalent for what we Germans call "deductions in the B rating"? Context: Someone did something and suceeded on a technical level (as in, achieved the intended goal), but failed to some degree in the details, i.e. there was some collateral damage, or while a technical success, the end result is an aestetic failure. It can be used highly ironically, as in "barely achieved the intended goal, but failed so much in every aspect that's not purely technical that it might as well be considered an utter failure altogether." The German term is derived from the old judging syste in figure skating, which gave separate ratings for "technical merit" and "presentation", with the latter being the origin of the German term.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (10 November 2019 - 02:32 AM)

Huh. I did not know before today that "medieval" had an alternate spelling "mediaeval". Like "paleontology" and "palaeontology".

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 November 2019 - 04:15 PM)

'Beast Wars in underrated' the comment went. I exploded.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (09 November 2019 - 02:19 PM)

Absolutely.

@  wonko the sane? : (09 November 2019 - 02:14 PM)

So... you can look like a cop from the 70's AND a huge nerd at the same time?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (09 November 2019 - 02:09 PM)

I feel like the best way to carry the Switch would be an under-arm torso holster.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (09 November 2019 - 12:31 PM)

It's not. hell. If the 3DS zelda case just stretched a LITTLE more it would fit.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 November 2019 - 03:38 AM)

I feel like the Switch Lite is a bit big to have hanging on your belt like that, but I don't take my Switch out with me often anyway.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (09 November 2019 - 01:13 AM)

I must be the only one who wants a switch lite case with a belt loop. o.O

@  TheMightyMol... : (08 November 2019 - 03:03 PM)

I'm gonna have "Chainsaw Buffet" and "Candy For the Cannibal" by Lordi playing in my head all night.

@  Maximus Ambus : (08 November 2019 - 12:36 PM)

Trick or treaters can only consent to cannibalism in Germania.

@  Sabrblade : (07 November 2019 - 12:12 PM)

Hey, if the trick or treaters can't take some loving insults, that's their problem.

@  Arazyr : (07 November 2019 - 11:39 AM)

Just make sure to put the leftovers in the fridge, so they don't get spoiled.

@  wonko the sane? : (07 November 2019 - 11:10 AM)

I love children... but I can never eat a whole one.

@  TheMightyMol... : (07 November 2019 - 09:52 AM)

I can neither confirm nor deny this allegation.

@  Paladin : (07 November 2019 - 09:46 AM)

...you don't roast the trick or treaters, do you....

@  wonko the sane? : (07 November 2019 - 09:38 AM)

A cold beer, a warm fire, some smores and trick or treaters... Man, you got this life thing down.

@  wonko the sane? : (07 November 2019 - 09:37 AM)

That actually sounds pretty awesome.

@  MEDdMI : (07 November 2019 - 08:59 AM)

we'll move to the open garage if it's raining

@  MEDdMI : (07 November 2019 - 08:58 AM)

every Halloween since we got a house, TMM and I chill in the driveway with a fire bowl and roast things while handing out candy. It's pretty great.

@  Maximus Ambus : (07 November 2019 - 03:42 AM)

Peter Cullen voiced King Kong let that sink in.

@  TM2-Megatron : (06 November 2019 - 11:42 PM)

I've noticed that after a year or two, though, people with children will start getting into it for their kids

@  TM2-Megatron : (06 November 2019 - 11:41 PM)

I think a lot of the decline you see in Halloween is due to newcomers to Canada who don't really get it... I mean,there are only a handful of countries in the world that practice this particular oddity


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Harmony Gold's Enormous Robotech Clusterfracas

Harmony Gold Robotech Macross

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20 replies to this topic

#1 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 04:00 PM

I was talking to my wife about Harmony Gold and Robotech for a project recently, including the myriad failed follow-up and legal issues that have surrounded the whole thing. She's interested in learning more, and my knowledge comes from various bits and pieces picked up over many years.

 

Just wondering if anyone knows a good, solid source or some good articles that cover these subjects in-depth? Wiki doesn't go into as much detail as I'd like, so I figured I'd reach out for some others' opinions, as my interaction with the franchise has been mostly periphery, rather than as an active fan myself.

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


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#2 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 04:53 PM

The extended round of lawsuits between FASA and Harmony Gold might help shed some light on matters, but I'd have to ask around for links on those. The best I can give you for this one right now is Sarna.net, but they're in even worse shape than the TF Wikia.

Edited by Fortress Ironhold, 07 November 2015 - 04:54 PM.


#3 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 05:11 PM

Ah, thanks. That will be useful. =)

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


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#4 TSM-in-N.Y.

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 07:15 PM

Makes me miss the days Carl Macek and I would argue about the future of Robotech at the old Creation Entertainment Sci-Fi conventions here in NYC.

 

And don't even get me started about those heady days before the Akira movie was released.

 

** wipes away a tear **

 

 

Your friend, TSM-in-N.Y.

 

 

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Edited by TSM-in-N.Y., 07 November 2015 - 07:16 PM.

KEEP THE BEATS PHRESH YO! TSM-in-N.Y.

"To paraphrase the great M. Biehn in The Terminator, I don't misspell words, you do. Don't do that again. Listen and understand, I am out here. I can't be bargained with, I can't be reasoned with. I don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear and I absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!" - TSM-in-N.Y.

"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some people out there in our nation don't have maps, and, uh, I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa and the Iraq, everywhere, like, such as. And I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., er, should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our children." Lauren Caitlin Upton - Miss South Carolina Teen USA 2007, answering a question on why 20 percent of Americans surveyed are unable to locate the U.S. on a world map.

#5 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 08:57 PM

Ah, thanks. That will be useful. =)
 
--LBD "Nytetrayn"


IIRC, FASA actually won the first lawsuit.

The issue came when FASA sued someone else a few years later for copyright infringement. Remember "Exo-Squad"? The company that made the toys solicited a new mecha that was pretty much a dead ringer for one of the original designs from Battletech. FASA won, something that the toy company never forgot.

Well, guess who wound up with the license for Robotech product when the franchise was revived in the early 1990s...

Harmony Gold and the toy company in question compared notes, realized that they had a mutual enemy in FASA, and filed suit. This time, FASA lost on a technicality. FASA was forced to spend absurd amounts of money reprinting their manuals in order to delete not just the Macross images, but all images borrowed from other mecha shows (it's my understanding that Sunrise doesn't care and didn't mind if FASA continued to use the images) as well as the images FASA itself had commissioned from Victor Entertainment.

FASA might have survived (the sale of FASA Interactive to Microsoft covered the bulk of the expenses and the settlement), but other issues started hitting the company around this time that killed it.

FASA's IP rights were split between WizKids (which was co-founded by a former big shot at FASA) and Fantasy Productions (a German company that served as FASA's distributor for mainland Europe). Problem was, WizKids decided to do Mechwarrior: Dark Age so that they could create a Battletech game that was compatible with their "clicky" game system. FanPro was forced to go along for the ride due to the terms of the IP split, even after it became apparent that most fans hated "ClickyTech" and the whole thing was going down like the Hindenburg.

Finally, Catalyst Game Labs (co-founded by Randal Bills, another former FASA big shot) managed to acquire the IP rights to Battletech and Shadowrun from the two companies. They're trying their best to bring it back, but Dark Age did significant damage to the franchise that they're still trying to overcome. It should say something that Catalyst had to have Kickstarter finance the video games for these two franchises.

#6 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 09:13 PM

Just remembered -

I started a thread over on Battletech fansite Mordel.net about Harmony Gold's failed effort to sue Hasbro over the Joe convention exclusive Jetfire toy a few years ago. I've got links in there to various websites talking about matters.

You might be able to ask there for details about the FASA / HG blow-up.

#7 tec

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:03 PM

Harmourselfs Gold where to even begin...


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#8 2019

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:23 PM

The new Macross show is starting soonish, incidentally. It's called Macross Delta and will apparently be Valks vs Valks.


PM me if you're bored!


#9 Zodberg

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:40 AM

Harmony Gold is such a archaic sounding name for a company. Like, who is going to look through anime titles and think "Oh, this ones by Harmony Gold! We should get it since I bet it's way better than the titles from Harmony Bronze."


Woooo!

#10 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 05:33 PM

Harmony Gold is such a archaic sounding name for a company. Like, who is going to look through anime titles and think "Oh, this ones by Harmony Gold! We should get it since I bet it's way better than the titles from Harmony Bronze."


It was the 1980s.

Need I say more?

#11 Ironbite

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:02 PM

The new Macross show is starting soonish, incidentally. It's called Macross Delta and will apparently be Valks vs Valks.

 

...are they really?  Damn.

 

Ironbite-bout damn time.


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#12 2019

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:20 PM

 

The new Macross show is starting soonish, incidentally. It's called Macross Delta and will apparently be Valks vs Valks.

 

...are they really?  Damn.

 

Ironbite-bout damn time.

 

 

 

 

According to interviews, yeah. Also some Regults and Battle Pod and Destroids show up too in the trailer.


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#13 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:54 PM

Oh, they finally got something new off the ground?

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


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#14 mx-01 archon

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:23 AM

Oh, they finally got something new off the ground?

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

 

What do you mean "finally"?  Macross Frontier came out a few years ago, reviving the franchise as far as TV anime go (merch-wise, it's been going again ever since Yamato - now Arcadia - started crafting their high-end collector figures in the early 2000's.  Bandai, meanwhile, has been producing the Frontier-related merch), and there've been all manner of supplementary materials and companion movies and such ever since.  Delta is just the next new entry in the franchise, as far as Japan is concerned.  Not a grand revival or anything.

 

At this point in time, Macross has absolutely nothing to do with Robotech, barring the copyright trolls over at Harmony Gold blocking its release in North America on shady legal grounds.


Edited by mx-01 archon, 11 November 2015 - 03:11 PM.


#15 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 08:53 AM

Did it? Sorry, the last thing I saw seemed to indicate they keep spinning their wheels, the last thing I remember them trying being a Kickstarter that didn't work. Or did it? I thought it fell through.

 

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#16 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 08:59 AM

The Kickstarter was for Robotech Academy and it didn't work out. Doesn't seem like much more news came out ever since.

Edited by NotVeryKnightly, 13 November 2015 - 08:59 AM.


#17 DarkeklawGW

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 10:08 AM

Yeah the Kickstarter was for Robotech which is only very faintly if even at all related to Macross anymore.  I mean what the only thing that was really related to Macross was the very first story arch which made up the bulk of the series.

 

HG should just produce Sentinels and be done with it.  The Robotech horse is kinda dead and you can only get so much glue out of the bones..

And I'm a big Robotech fan...  Even I know there's not much of a future left in it with out it being contrived (Shadow Chronicles anyone?) 


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#18 mx-01 archon

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 04:09 AM

Did it? Sorry, the last thing I saw seemed to indicate they keep spinning their wheels, the last thing I remember them trying being a Kickstarter that didn't work. Or did it? I thought it fell through.

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

 

As I said, Macross and Robotech by this point are completely different entities, related only by the legal snarls that prevent further Macross materials from being imported to North America for as long as Harmony Gold continues to camp the trademark.  Macross has been revived and has been going strong in Japan for the last several years, and Harmony Gold can't lay claim to any of that.


Edited by mx-01 archon, 14 November 2015 - 04:11 AM.


#19 GodSentinelOmega

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 04:45 AM

I still enjoy Robotech even now but...

Yeah, Harmony Gold seems to habe a dead mans grip on the rights to Robotech at this point. Since they failed to follow up on the, admittedly contrived Shadow Chronicles, then tried to Kickstarter a side story that would likely not have given Robotech an ending. They now seem content to do what they've been doing. Continued rereleases of the existing series. Strangle the distribution of anything Macross related unless they get money. And sue anything that even tangentially looks like Robotech.the 'newest' Robotech related thing they did was dub Love Live Alive, which simply retells the New Generation part of Robotech. With a little bit of extra footage..

Oher than Macross II, Macross Plus and the ADV Dub of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, we won't get anything. Not Macross Zero, Macross 7, Macross Frontier, or the upcoming Macross Delta.

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#20 Scavgraphics

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 06:12 AM

I wonder if there's any value to my Sentinals VHS tape..