Right, because you believe the existence of trans people is a political argument, just as your parents believed the existence of gay people was. So go start a thread. That is not the purpose of this one. Try not to abuse others' benefit of the doubt this time when you get there.
believing that trans existence is inherently political
Well, not the existence of anybody, but certainly the many policies, laws, and thought processes that are being advocated for here and elsewhere.
Like, the existence of gay people is very separate from issues about whether they should be allowed by law to marry or adopt. Those were political issues (because they change how society is organized, how culture operates, and just generally "how we do things"). Something like stopping them from the right to associate (yes, right up to the point of sleeping with others of the same sex) is certainly an obvious violation of personal freedom.
All politics is "how we do things and how we decide to do things". The implication being that, outside your existence and your right to personal freedom, the rest has to be argued and resolved in the public sphere (ie politics).
Do..uh...do you realize how you're coming across to others? Maybe you should get a friend so they can let you know?
Yes, yes I do. As I said earlier, you don't get on the questioning side of these topic without being ready to be seen this way.
has the power to question a trans person's validity and a trans person doesn't have the power to do the same
I think I've said before that I'll extend personal courtesy to others to a reasonable limit.
Society has made plenty of room for concrete concepts in fields like psychology that involve the stuff that goes on in people's heads, stuff that no one else can *see* but are still considered entirely valid. Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness, now we think the better of it. I see no reason to tell trans people they're believing fairy tales because we can't see what gender identity *really* lives in their brains.
Yeah, I guessed that this was where our personal philosophies clash. There's quite the difference here, and I don't think that's the worst thing ever. On the bright side, I think you articulated your position well, and I don't have any interest in pushing a disagreement like this much further. I think disagreement is okay.
but throwing trans people under the bus
My points would be:
a) As noted before; we disagree
b) I have no desire to throw anybody under any busses
c) I believe in everybody's right to do, think, and act as they please, even if I disagree
d) They may also lobby politically for positions I disagree with, c'est la vie and all that ilk
I cannot emphasize enough how much Trans Panic is just a rebranded Gay Panic.
I don't think those at LGB Alliance would take a similar stand.
in an attempt to shove it back into the closet
In all honesty; you can't "shove" any human thought processes out of existence, it's a fools errand. As I've said, all we can do is decide how you deal with them.
fourteenwings if you actually want to hold these opinions and debate them on The Allspark then go into P&R and start your own thread. That way those who wish to educate you can do so while all the other users who have no interest in your objectives here can be spared from seeing them.
I've been thoroughly educated, both in the line of thinking/politics in this thread and the alternative it. Separate schools and all that.
My personal advice would be to never post in this thread again but that's just me.
Well, I felt I'd hit an impasse already with the only person who was willing to honestly engage the last time I posted, and I just wanted to offer a final explanation of my positions because I feel past this point nothing productive will come of it.
Edited by Kalidor, 05 January 2021 - 12:44 AM.
External link removed