Star Trek: Picard

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Rust

Slightly Off
Citizen
I like how at the end of the first season we could say "we'll see if that has any meaningful impact on the story in the future", and we still can.

I know Picard Season 1 didn't know during the writing phase they'd be getting a Season 2, but with Q in this season it makes it absolutely daft they didn't resolve Picard's illness in THIS season as opposed to the last with Q's parting gift not being just resurrecting the dead but curing Picard.

No Synth nonsense and we'd have a bit of a more interesting romp in the past with Picard's health continuing to decline and the complications that brings to the story.
 

Kalidor

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
It's interesting because Q could have done something that the android body could have easily done - make him a younger healthy version of himself that could have been recast and the character continue.
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
Citizen
You know, Spock in particular has proved to be much bigger than just Nimoy's portrayal of him, so maybe there's a world in which the same is true for Picard, but I really think the TOS crew have some advantages getting to that iconic status in the franchise. In our world, though, this show was a Patrick Stewart vehicle and everyone involved (or otherwise) is pretty aware of that. What they could have done with this premise and different actors is kinda irrelevant. The premise only existed to give these particular actors something to do. If they'd cast other people, they would have written a different story.

Hell, even a young recast Picard show would undoubtedly be a prequel aboard the Stargazer.

I know Picard Season 1 didn't know during the writing phase they'd be getting a Season 2, but with Q in this season it makes it absolutely daft they didn't resolve Picard's illness in THIS season as opposed to the last with Q's parting gift not being just resurrecting the dead but curing Picard.

No Synth nonsense and we'd have a bit of a more interesting romp in the past with Picard's health continuing to decline and the complications that brings to the story.
Yeah, in theory it's quite a missed opportunity.

In practice, I'm still trying to get over the whiplash of this season's hard turn into "it was all a misunderstanding, showing vulnerability and really talking is how we achieve harmony" from persistent lethal threat and insistence on how serious everything is. Like I honestly think this season holds together much worse than the first and Q's motivations are more contrived than the golem was.
 

Tuxedo Prime

Member
Citizen
Q screwed around with 2024 and made a dystopian present in order to help Picard deal with a trauma that happened in the early 2300s?

Do the writers need to be drug tested?
Well, the mystery plot wasn't spoonfed to us, and it had a resolution. That there puts it ahead of anything former critical darling J.J. Abrams would have given us.

Still, you'd think Q would stear clear of 2024 California, lest he get punched by the Sisko again. (Now there's a cameo no-one would have seen coming....)
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
Citizen
So I watched Jessie Gender's review of Season 2, and it's a good and insightful review that has much more productive things to say about the show than I do. It's a very fair autopsy. But I'm bringing it up now for a petty and superficial reason, because a particular interview came up that bears on the JJ Abrams comparison.

You know that thing that JJ Abrams hilariously "learned" from his treatment of Star Wars?
You just never really know, but having a plan I have learned -- in some cases the hard way -- is the most critical thing, because otherwise you don't know what you're setting up.

Guess what Akiva Goldsman said he learned from the first season of Picard, that Season 2 would improve on.
Figure out the end earlier. If you’re going to do a serialized show, you have the whole story before you start shooting. It’s more like a movie in that way — you better know the end of your third act before you start filming your first scene.

I could be crazy here, but I'm thinking that if the two of them each invented the concept of outlining for the first time in human history at around the same time, Abrams might have been able to pull off an equally satisfying mystery. It's not a high bar.
 

Axaday

Member
Citizen
Do we have a term for the Star Trek era starting with Next Generation and continuing through Enterprise?

This era that I loved so much was not afraid to step back for a week now and then and tell a story that was neither big issue nor big action. For sure there will be no fighting and nothing will blow up. The stakes are personal and psychological and we just get to know a character a lot better. Discovery isn't interested in doing that, probably mainly because they have so little time and they don't feel like they can spare a minute. I didn't tell them the seasons had to be so short, but maybe someone has. If they can't be longer, I would propose to them that shorter might be the way to go. Star Trek was ALWAYS afraid to go to the big screen without a big hook, but streaming gives them another option that they haven't availed themselves of. The story of a dying Q taking Picard to learn that his mother's death wasn't his fault is the setup for a pretty good streaming movie. It would have clocked in a bit less, I guess, than half as long as Picard Season 2. It would have been cheaper to make, because the cast would have been smaller and there is half the shooting and editing and score. And I think it would have been better. It PERHAPS wouldn't have made as much money. And maybe that's the big stickler.
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
Citizen
I call that era Berman Trek for convenience, despite it starting with TNG firmly under Roddenberry's direction. It technically overlaps by a few years with the TOS movies, and conveniently does not overlap at all with the Kelvin movies and Paramount streaming series, which I'd collectively call Kurtzman Trek despite his only being a writer on Trek 2009 itself, again for convenience. The drywall, carpet, and plexiglass eras.

I think the reason for shorter seasons is that modern prestige TV is expensive, a lot of which probably goes to cinematography and effects. Arguably Discovery still has that one episode in S2 with the church that was a smaller scale story, and the fact that it's one episode makes the point more than its absence would. X / We'll see if SNW can handle plots in the future that concern less than the fate of an entire species.

But I don't doubt that you're right that a made-for-streaming movie could have tackled the concept of Picard S2 a lot better. I worry that the reason it would be better is because they'd have to cut out some of the extra plots and streamline it into something cohesive, and further worry that they didn't know that they needed to streamline it in the first place, or that having fewer plots going on was a good idea, and that's how we got what we got.
 

Rust

Slightly Off
Citizen
So I watched Jessie Gender's review of Season 2, and it's a good and insightful review that has much more productive things to say about the show than I do. It's a very fair autopsy. But I'm bringing it up now for a petty and superficial reason, because a particular interview came up that bears on the JJ Abrams comparison.

You know that thing that JJ Abrams hilariously "learned" from his treatment of Star Wars?


Guess what Akiva Goldsman said he learned from the first season of Picard, that Season 2 would improve on.


I could be crazy here, but I'm thinking that if the two of them each invented the concept of outlining for the first time in human history at around the same time, Abrams might have been able to pull off an equally satisfying mystery. It's not a high bar.

To think, either of them could have just watched BSG's Last Frakking Special and learned the same lesson.
No, I will not stop being salty about the fact they drew the Final Five's identities out of a literal bloody hat.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
I call that era Berman Trek for convenience, despite it starting with TNG firmly under Roddenberry's direction. It technically overlaps by a few years with the TOS movies, and conveniently does not overlap at all with the Kelvin movies and Paramount streaming series, which I'd collectively call Kurtzman Trek despite his only being a writer on Trek 2009 itself, again for convenience.
I've seen the modern era referred to elsewhere as the Secret Hideout era (based on the production company Kurtzman founded in 2014). The Abramsverse is in its own weird little pocket dimension, not really fitting in with either era, but with clear stylistic ties to both.
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
Citizen
Yeah, and a lot of what was new to Kelvin wasn't picked up by the Kurtzman stuff, that zeerust chic thing, or the fact it was the only Trek that didn't know fans want to see the warp core. I just lump them together in that they're both big, loud, glossy, and expensive, and represent a collective attempt to revisit Star Trek in a new form after it petered out. Like, they feel like a collective attempt at the same thing, the first one just didn't stick.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
And in hindsight the Abramsverse gets points for explicitly saying "this is an alternate universe" (and confirming that the Prime timeline is still the Berman-era Trek we remember).

 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
Citizen
I thought it was cheesy at the time and I still do. Just own up to the fact that you're making a reboot and don't call this Galaxy-sized Buck Rogers-ass starship a Connie and tell me it's raining.
 

Tuxedo Prime

Member
Citizen
An executive summary for Old Man Picard Season 2 came to me yesterday after finally catching up to the finale the night before:

"We are Sex Bob-omb of Borg, and this season is here to make you sad and think about death and stuff."
 
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