Nobody has the intention to invade Ukraine

Sjogre

Member
Citizen
You'd have had to start at least a decade earlier to avoid a shitshow, and even that's being optimistic.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
Saw a telling little note on the news ticker this morning:

"Russian ambassador to canada: nobody cares about western sanctions".
 

Nevermore

Well-known member
Citizen
Meanwhile, the German government is only vaguely discussing "consequences" should Russia attack Ukraine, but then everyone is quick to insist that they shouldn't cancel the highly controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline. One of the biggest hindrances is the moderate left German party SPD, which is heading our current three-party government. Former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, himself an SPD member, has spent the past two decades being a well-paid consultant for various Russian energy corporations such as Gazprom and Rosneft, and he's a personal friend of Vladimir Putin. So clearly he is just a well-respected elder statesman and not a highly biased lobbyist. There's an infamous quote by Schröder insisting that Putin is a "flawless democrat".

Schröder opened his mouth again, insisting that Ukraine should cease its "saber-rattling" (a German metaphor for warmongering), and that he doesn't believe his best buddy Vlad genuinely intended to invade his neighboring country.

In the past, Schröder had shrugged off any and all criticisms of his involvement with Russian energy corporations as "private matters". His critics have now rebuked his statements regarding the situation with Ukraine by insisting that his opinions would logically also be "private matters", then.

Hard to believe I actually voted for that jackass. Twice, even. Well, that was 24 (and 20) years ago. I was young and naive, then.
 
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wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
Don't hold past mistakes against yourself. You can see you were wrong, and you aren't doubling down on bad choices because it was the choice you made. You learned and grew.
 

Nevermore

Well-known member
Citizen
Don't hold past mistakes against yourself. You can see you were wrong, and you aren't doubling down on bad choices because it was the choice you made. You learned and grew.
Well, in all fairness, he didn't really become bestest of buddies with Putin until after he had become chancellor, and back then Putin wasn't in full-on villain mode yet. After all, his predecessor as chancellor, Helmut Kohl, was also friends with Putin's predecessor, Boris Yeltsin, which was viewed positively, because "good relations with Russia" meant "stability".

Also, Schröder's current involvement with Russia is heavily criticized within his own party.

On the other hand, it was the Schröder government which enacted that goddamn Agenda 2010, which gave way to that infamous Hartz IV system which merged long-term unemployment benefits and welfare on the lower level of the latter, complete with a system of severe sanctions for unemployed people who refuse to take shitty, exploitative jobs or don't cooperate with absolutely asinine "training" programs that treat adults like mentally handicapped children.

Essentially, his party, which is traditionally a moderate left-wing party that claims to represent the working-class population, enacted legislations that betrayed their own voters. It's like voting for a President in the US who runs on a Democrat ticket and then implements policies that would make a Reagan-era Republican proud.

In the end, the policies of Schröder's government hurt the image of his own party for at least a decade.
 

LiamA

Active member
Citizen
I feel like a Russian invasion of the Ukraine and us going to war over it is less a question of if and more of when.
 

TrnsfrmGod

Member
Citizen
Thank you for posting this, as it contains a point I was going to convey in an post-turned-essay I started then abandoned yesterday. That point being that Putin isn't just going about this politically, he's going after Ukraine ecclesiastically as well.

“So when Putin claims that they are the inheritor of the great Slavic lands, consecrated by the Byzantine — now Russian — Orthodox Church, he’s really making a historical claim that’s not particularly true,”

Trying to shorten up what I was going to write yesterday: the Orthodox Church is divided into about 16 different patriarchates, each overseen by a Patriarch (duh), who each are of equal rank. There is no one "Pope", no single leader; when a matter of ecclesiastical clarification needs settling, all of the bishops/Patriarchs gather together in Council to discuss the matter, and a unanimous decision is meant to be reached.

However, historically, there was (and continues to be) a Patriarch in Constantinople, who holds a title of "First among equals", due to the prominence of Constantinople as the seat of the Byzantine Empire. So, when these councils are convened, he leads them, but his vote/opinion/understanding is no more valid than any other bishop's.

Moscow has its own Patriarch(ate), the Russian Orthodox Church. Because Constantinople is now Istanbul, and its Patriarch lives in "occupied territory", Russia feels that it is now the "Third Rome", and its Patriarch should be equal in stature to (or greater than) Constantinople's.

TO MY POINT: In January 2019, the Patriarch of Constantinople granted self-governorship (autocephaly) to the church of Ukraine, against the wishes of the Patriarch of Moscow, since Moscow had been taking care of the Church of Ukraine since 1686. Ukraine itself had petitioned for autocephaly and, traditionally, Constantinople has the sole right to grant/rescind autocephaly.

Moscow retaliated by (ultimately) breaking Communion Constantinople and any Churches aligned with it, calling Constantinople's actions "schismatic".

NOW, Moscow is taking the further step by reaching their hand into ANOTHER Patriarchate's jurisdiction (Patriarchate of Alexandria) and scooping up churches in Africa, under the auspices of a "Patriarchal Exarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church in Africa". They're even going to far as to have the clergy there (who disagree with Alexandria supporting Constantinople) signing oaths to align with Moscow instead.

Very bizarre power play.
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
Frankly, the only thing he should be God of is a 20 square foot cell somewhere in Siberia. I'm sure quite a few Russians agree.(though they'd be fined, arrested or worse for saying so )
 

Nevermore

Well-known member
Citizen
It gets nastier.

There are reports of a secret meeting of members that took place on January 5 in the city of Hannover. Participants were:
- SPD member Johann Saathoff, a member of German parliament and former appointee for dealing with Russia
- SPD member Martin Schulz, chairman of the Friedrich Ebert Foundation that has close ties with the SPD
- businessman Heino Wiese, honorary consul of Russia and close confidant of former chancellor Gerhard Schröder
- and Gerhard Schröder himself.

Saathoff claims it was him as a member of parliament who initiated the meeting, and the controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline project was not among the topics discussed during their meeting as far as he recalls.

Schröder is currently at the center of much controversy, because amidst his public statements in which he accused Ukraine of being the true aggressor, it was reported that he is going to be appointed to the supervisory council of Gazprom.

Last week, both Saathoff and Schulz participated in a meeting of SPD officials concerning the Russian situation initiated by party chairman Lars Klingbeil. Additionally, Saathoff works as an undersecretary in the ministry of home affairs for the federal government.

The whole situation puts the SPD under pressure. The party's official stance is that Gerhard Schröder, former German chancellor, elder statesman and respected longtime SPD member, is acting on his own with regards to the whole Russian situation, and the party is trying to distance itself from him because of his clear conflict of interest.
 

Nevermore

Well-known member
Citizen
US officials warn that a Russian invasion of Ukraine could happen any time now.
 

Anonymous X

Well-known member
Citizen
I think it’s probably now inevitable that Putin will invade, and he’ll blame “aggressive” western governments for the destruction and chaos that follows in an attempt to destabilise Nato and the EU by turning the public in the western world against both.
 


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