Marvel's Hawkeye on Disney Plus

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AgentOrange

Member
Citizen
I do find these current revelations.. confusing.

Maya never questioned why Kazi wasn't there? in like.. a decade or more? Really? This conversation is only coming up now? Hes had all this time and doesn't have a better excuse than "I dunno, I didn't get the call?"

I dunno. I liked it but there were a lot of questions with this one.

A decade or more? It's been at most 5 years.
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
I think

Jack’s portrayal as a caddish, gold digging idiot at everything that isn’t sword fighting is genuine and he’s nothing more than a patsy for Eleanor.

I *do* wonder what the official in-universe Endgame story is though. I can’t imagine they told ANYONE they have a fully functional time machine. I assume it’s that Thanos returned because the Avengers stole the stones to fix things? It’d be pretty easy to slot Nat dying during that battle but then why/how would Val told Yelena Hawkeye killed her? Is it just a baseless lie? Does Val somehow know what happened on Vormir?
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
Tombstone's in this?
The Big Man! Hahaha! I'm going to pretend that's a Spectacular Spider-Man tv show reference, hehe :)

Just saw the ep. Loved the start with Yelena. I thought it went supernatural ala Silent Hill for a few second there.

Looooved the macaroni scene. We know they're fine but it totally felt like how Michael Keaton was threatening Peter Parker in the car in Homecoming. I loved it. So casually dangerous that it's scary.

Grills still need comeuppance. Don't be friends with him. He already killed Clint before.

Also, doesn't Kate own Pizza doug? What's he doing with Clint? Does he do anything cool in the comic? I'm still assuming he's a spy.

I didn't watch the other series but is that the same actor in the pic?
 

Dvandom

Active member
Citizen
Of course, this is the MCU...you could have it be the same character with a different actor, or a different variant with the same actor. So whether or not it's the same actor says very little about whether the Netflix shows are in continuity.

---Dave
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
Of course, this is the MCU...you could have it be the same character with a different actor, or a different variant with the same actor. So whether or not it's the same actor says very little about whether the Netflix shows are in continuity.

---Dave

I don't care if they are or not, but Kingpin and Daredevil was one of the few things the Netflix series nailed perfectly. Now, I just hope they can bring David Tennant back as Purple Man, there are some really good stories left to tell with the character now that we got a way for him to not be dead; and Tennant was the only good thing about that series.
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
Of course, this is the MCU...you could have it be the same character with a different actor, or a different variant with the same actor. So whether or not it's the same actor says very little about whether the Netflix shows are in continuity.

---Dave
Gasp! Like the recasting of Pietro?! It's Agatha all along again, isn't it?!?

Calling it now. Different royalty. Kate is the Bishop but the mom is the Queen!Pin this comment for proof and vindication for next week! Kidding.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I'm still pretty confused about the dog. I know who he's supposed to be from the comics and I remember that he first showed up to help Kate back in the first episode, but did he really get no real intro to the show beyond just "runs up from offscreen and starts gnawing at the Tracksuit goon"? Did I miss a moment before that scene?
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
Just how much introduction and back story do you need for a stray dog?

Does it need to be revealed that he was once a man bitten by a radioactive schnauzer? That he was once owned by Reed Richards? That he's Hawkeye from an universe where the avengers are all animals, who originally came together to battle alligator Loki? That he's actually Mephisto in disguise and is actually behind everything?
 
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Dvandom

Active member
Citizen
Pizza Dog does sort of feel like a Chekov's Gun. When your story only has so many installments, you have to consider whether it's worth devoting time to any particular element. Does Pizza Dog serve a purpose in the story beyond fanservice? Has that purpose been fulfilled already? That sort of thing. You could definitely argue that Pizza Dog was an inciting element early on, helping drive the plot by getting the attention of the right characters at the right time. But does he still have a plot purpose, or is he just hanging out to be adorable?

---Dave
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Just how much introduction and back story do you need for a stray dog?
An establishing shot of where he was before he ran up to gnaw at the guy's leg would be nice.

(Unless, again, there was one and I missed it)

EDIT: Re-watching the party scene of Episode 1, I see that I somehow completely missed the whole part where Kate briefly steps outside after learning that her mom and Jack are engaged, which is where the dog first appears and meets her, before he later appears at the fight scene after the auction.
 
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Ultra Magnus13

Member
Citizen
I do find these current revelations.. confusing.

Okay so seeing the snap from the perspective of someone who got snapped was pretty cool. I mean we technically saw it in Wandavision but we didn't SEE it SEE it you know?

I was right the mom was up to something. Jack seems way to chill about being arrested which makes me feel like they were always both in on it and hes assuming he will just spend a little time in holding and the big man will clear things up for him. Might not be the case.

E. Bishop hired Yelena to kill Barton... which is odd because the end of Black Widow made it seem like Val was the one piloting her to a course of revenge? What did she just sit on this for a year hoping someone would hire her to go kill the person she already wanted dead? Also why hire her to kill Barton? She didn't even know he was on to things until he showed up in her house and by the time he left her house he had already agreed to leave Kate out of it. So why? Its not to protect Maya it doesn't seem like.

Maya still has the watch? It was already odd she was holding on to it for so long but even weirder after it almost got stolen because she left it sitting out on a shelf in plain view

Kate mentions the new and improved statue of liberty which is interesting considering the movie that just came out today. I guess we have a timeline for when these events occur now.

Maya never questioned why Kazi wasn't there? in like.. a decade or more? Really? This conversation is only coming up now? Hes had all this time and doesn't have a better excuse than "I dunno, I didn't get the call?"

I dunno. I liked it but there were a lot of questions with this one.

Pretty sure Kate's mom contracted the hit to protect herself from Hawkeyes investigation as her first priority.
 

Dvandom

Active member
Citizen
Note, there does seem to be a network for hiring that sort of person, and this particular person would have called dibs on the job. Possibly even in advance.

---Dave
 

Sean Whitmore

Member
Citizen
Didn't love that finale, honestly. No matter the number of episodes, Marvel always seems to tease out the middle for too long and make the ending seem cramped.

-Criminal underuse of Vera Farmiga. I wish instead of going for the (predictable) twist, they'd made her intentions clear earlier and maybe done something to make us care about or like her at all. I'm sure she'll be back next season, but it would've been a lot better if the show made me care at all about her THIS season.

-If the Yelena/Clint resolution was going to be SO by the numbers, they could have maybe skipped some of the middle numbers and just gotten to the end sooner.

-I don't think I completely get the watch. Presumably, Laura had some encounter with Kingpin while she was a SHIELD agent? And something about the watch would've revealed her identity and/or location? I feel like that wasn't even necessary; Clint feeling responsible for protecting Kate from Ronin's enemies was more than enough reason to keep him involved.

-Maybe I missed something here, but Clint DID still kill Maya's father, right? Like, the father was set up to be killed, but Clint still DID it, yes? With Maya getting her own show, I assume the "kill a superhero" portion of her life is behind her now, so Clint gets a pass for that?

-And Kingpin. I wasn't expecting much, as I know the show didn't have 8 or 9 hour-long episodes to show him slowly worm his way into every facet of the plot, so that by the end he'd have a firm stranglehold on everyone while remaining untouchable in the background.

But I DID expect a LITTLE more than "I'ma hunt down and kill Vera Farmiga with my bare hands while my comic-relief goons cause a distraction."
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
Honestly, I really enjoyed it.

I love that they are setting up Yolanda and Kate to be best friends. Their interactions in the last episode and this one were wonderful.

I'm fine with what they've done with Kingpin so far, as I really doubt we've seen the last of him. It works for as a good intro to the character for those that haven't seen Daredevil. We get a good action scene showing off his physical ability.
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
Well, that was fun. But, really, could I just watch the finale without seeing the rest? They went through a whole song and dance just to culminate in a huge (if fun) typical Marvel finale (except for Loki).

Did they really spend CGI on something that doesn't even relate to the title? They're just flipping the bird at those watching the budget. Like, what's the point of including the other thing then, doggone it? They're just lucky that the audience probably likes cute stuff.

Love the elevator and onwards. Stop trying to make me like them more. I already do, urgh.

The part that was suppose to be scary was just plain crazy. Absolutely crazy.

There's a spin off? Why?

I rank
WandaVision
Loki
Misadventures of Zemo
Hawkeye
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Well, that was interesting.

I've complained enough about how they write Kate as essentially inviting herself to the party (nothing to do with addressing an actual problem, even, it's just meeting Clint and bam she's a partner-level hero in her mind). They do the lots-of-bungling intro, two episodes later he tells her to leave because things have gotten complicated by a Widow joining, and now it's "you're my partner" suddenly. They don't even really get into how this clashes with Clint's obvious post-Endgame grief/Ronin guilt and heroing weariness, just touching on it lightly in their movie-marathon talk. That was a great scene, but could've done more in that direction.

It was bad in "Batman Forever", it was bad with Tim Drake in "Titans" (but then I expect bad writing from "Titans"), and it's the least endearing thing about her here. Fortunately, when they're talking about and working on other stuff, it's very enjoyable. Their banter and chemistry is much more real and fun to watch than Sam's/Bucky's. I also liked that she and Lucky The Pizza Dog joined the Barton family for Christmas, although Yelena should really have also dropped by for her first American Christmas.

But more irksome was that this was a tiny six episodes, and so much had to be drawn out to heighten the impact of the Yelena guest spot (which paid off big and which they did a lot with in at least ep5 -- Florence elevates everything Marvel she's in) and the Kingpin reveal (which was not enough to offset how it undermined the narrative). The initial mystery was fairly thin, heightened only by the steadfast refusal to say anything more indicative about who they were dealing with, which began to grate after an episode, two at most. The substance and benefit is mostly meta, rather than really enriching the story itself. Him taking the primary villain spot, and taking so damn long to enter the story to do so, also results in Vera Farmiga's character being made even less interesting (the last thing she says is the saddest attempt at a Kareny guilt-trip. "Do heroes have their mothers arrested on Christmas", ugh.)

And here he finally is, still an impressive actor with great control over his instrument (I will always love his subtly escalating facial twitches), but feeling like he's lost some of his shine. The choices of having him hold court in person, in a chintzy office, and in a what-are-you-wearing (yes, it's from the comics, so?) ensemble, all wear away at the above-it-all, untouchable facade that sold him in early "Daredevil". It's not a good position to put him in -- first full appearance in the very last episode, in which he has to ultimately get beaten for story's sake (although he does no-sell a fair bit, including getting yeeted by a car, and manages to present a legitimately scary threat).

And honestly, the first-responder LARPers who [1] have no problem with straight-up evidence tampering and [2] seemingly can't be good first responders when not in costume... eh.

A lot of this show feels like someone took notes on what made other Marvel shows get reactions, and then tried to hit those beats and those beats only. Banter and occasional out-of-context comedy (Yelena's "hiiii" was the one thing that didn't land for me), headstrong lead, set up mystery/ies and/or have a meta casting/character reveal, some goofy supporting characters.

I was really looking forward to this for a lot of reasons, and it was... okay. THIS I'd like to see a nice second season to, anchored by Kate with a big guest role from Yelena, and a smaller guest role from Clint, perhaps having largely retired from the role as he seems to have left her the Hawkeye name at the end.

So far, it's WandaVision at the top, a tie between Hawkeye and Loki, and then TFATWS. (What If is more of an anthology to me and so I don't count it the same way.)
 

Powered Convoy

Randy
Citizen
This was my least favorite of the MCU Disney+ live action shows so far. Renner and Steinfeld we're great, as were most of the cast, it just seemed a bit sloppily handled compared to the others.
 
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