The US Supreme Court and its decisions

[Paladin]

The last EIGHT elections I've heard nothing but "We have to vote our way out of this" as fascism grows stronger and stronger. Now we see its full effects laid bare; every advancement in our lifetimes is in the crosshairs to be wiped out.

So remind me again what good voting ACTUALLY does??? what harm has actually been reduced?

 

[wonko the sane?]

Harm reduction only works when ALL side are attempting to migitate something. In this case: it fails because no matter how many people vote for democrats, republicans will eventually get re-relected and the downward spiral will continue. And it HAS to continue because the voter base for the republicans and the GOP itself have become so seperate and distinct from reality that there can be no compromise, no working together, no shared values.

 

[Ungnome]

Voting, at the very least, slows them down. If it wasn't for the Senate outcomes in Georgia in 2020 going Democrat, the Senate would currently have a Republican majority and even what little has been accomplished wouldn't have been.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Sadly, this is where is will STAY until something drastic changes, and I know because I've seen this before.

In the early 2000's: quebecs provincial government was functionally paralyzed. No party could get a majority vote, and consequently the opposition would scream "no confidence" the second it was viable and force and election. No goverment lasted longer than a year and a half, and finally they had to remove the ability to bring down the government before anything could even get done. It was a bad choice, but it was the only way to stop them from abusing it. Now when assholes like the caq get elected: we're stuck with them until the next hard scheduled election, regardless of how badly or how often they violate the law and break the constitution.

Until something drastic changes in the US government: either the republicans finally start taking their meds and rejoin reality, the democrats grow a pair, or a ridiculously viable third party sweeps the triumvirate; the downward spiral will continue and eventually accelerate when the last vestige of american democracy finally dies.

 

[Dekafox]

Other court cases decided on the same "Right to Privacy" that RvW was decided on, that this will open up challenges for:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521316456889077760

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521316459628007425

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521316462396289026

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521316465185484800

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

I'm skeptical that court cases decided before Roe was even decided (early 70s) are so likely to be invalidated by its rejection.

 

[Dekafox]

The reasoning is that RvW was decided by a "Right to Privacy" which Alito and the originalists seem to not see as existing in the constitution. All these cases were decided on that same Right to Privacy. and Alito even called out two off this very list in the draft. If Precedent no longer matters(which is what originalists lean heavily into), all these could easily be open questions now.

Note that none of these are directly invalidated by this decision, but they now have an open attack path laid out for them.

*edit* a couple links on orignialism:

Originalism, Amy Coney Barrett’s approach to the Constitution, explained

Originalism sells itself as a way of constraining judges. But it’s more often a way of unleashing them.

www.vox.com

What is originalism? Debunking the myths

(The Conversation is an independent and nonprofit source of news, analysis and commentary from academic experts.) Ilan Wurman, Arizona State University (THE CONVERSATION) Originalism...

apnews.com

 

[Kup]

I remember reading in the Star Trek novel "Federation" about the early 21st century. Whoever was the focus of that chapter was someone in Europe and said something along the lines "who knows what's going on in the U.S. with the Constitution suspended over there."

As a child, I found it unsettling. As an adult witnessing it first hand, chilling.

Perhaps the biggest surprise for me today is that all of the people I hid on social media over the past 5-6 years are insanely quiet today. This is a massive nothingburger for my ultra-right wing acquaintances, at least per their social profiles that I checked . Is this not being reported by Faux News and the other right-wing outlets?

 

[wonko the sane?]

A leak, which is what the draft of the ruling was, is not law. The court HAS NOT officially ruled yet and as such: nothing has changed for right wingers. To quote M.Bison; It was a tuesday. They will comment and then party when it's officially ruled. In the mean time: I'm sure the monstrous among them are reading stuff like the above twitter posts and making long ranging plans for the when bad old days are here again.

 

[Cyoti]

The last EIGHT elections I've heard nothing but "We have to vote our way out of this" as fascism grows stronger and stronger. Now we see its full effects laid bare; every advancement in our lifetimes is in the crosshairs to be wiped out.

So remind me again what good voting ACTUALLY does??? what harm has actually been reduced?

11 elections if we count Bush II as the start of this crapfest. Voting is pretty much useless. I have voted in at least 8 of them and I haven't gotten one non-Republican governor, senator or rep for my efforts because I live in a gerrymandered red state.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Just because one doesn't always win does not mean that voting is useless. This kind of fatalism needs to stop. It's a poison and doesn't help anyone.

 

[Paladin]

Everything that Democrats warned us might happen if we didn't vote IS happening because we did.

How can "voting" be the answer to stop any of it?

 

[Wheelimus]

Sad to say our only option is still to vote our way out of this. It's going to take record turnout among women voting against this shit to save us in the midterms and give us the 2 or 3 more Senators we need to change filibuster laws and codify Roe v Wade. But there will be plenty of idiots turning out to vote for Republicans in favor of this travesty. I don't even know what to predict right now. It's a bad situation all around.

 

[M. Virion]

The people fatalistically swearing that voting is useless, and that the only solution is direct action alone are ignorant to a fault.

This country is not on the verge of a violent overthrow of the government toward leftist ideals, or a socialistic revolution that will overturn our current systems or even enough people standing up to create a viable third party alternative on a national level. In part because if the Democratic tent fractures over this it won't coalesce into a single viable third party. It will splinter into multiple factions, and maybe over decades or longer those splinters will form into something new and viable, but in the meantime direct control is being handed over, unfettered and unrestrained to literal fascists and religious fundamentalists.

"After Hitler, our turn!" was a horrific failure in every single way as a principle of the Communist Party of Germany. Accelerationism is a failed ideology that has never succeeded in anything but hastening fascism.

I understand the fatalistic thought process, I get it. I'm severely depressed and suffering daily bouts of suicidal ideation that I am struggling to control, but from a purely logical standpoint, from a historical context, opting to not vote is not a solution that ever, EVER works out in the favor of people like ourselves.

Direct action is good, it is important and it is needed more than ever now, but it cannot, and should not be the sole action taken.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Everything that Democrats warned us might happen if we didn't vote IS happening because we did.

How can "voting" be the answer to stop any of it?

"because we did"? That's absurd in the extreme. Just stop it.

Not enough of us did. Pure and simple.

 

[Ungnome]

It's not happening BECAUSE we voted, it's happening IN SPITE OF us voting, a significant difference. If we hadn't voted, we'd be further into the decent to madness and barbarism than we currently are. Voting is one of the few tools we have to right the ship. NOT using the tools available is essentially refusing to bail water out of the boat because"it's gonna sink anyway".

 

[Cyoti]

Just because one doesn't always mean does not mean that voting is useless. This kind of fatalism needs to stop. It's a poison and doesn't help anyone.

I'm just pointing out voting isn't as useful or the end all be all that people on the internet are making it out to be. If you look at it in totally strategic terms, voting for the left is entirely defensive to shore up and maintain a crumbling status quo and it's not working.

However the Right is going on the offensive. They are destroying labor and unions with the Supreme Court and the local state legislatures. They are suppressing voter rights and voter turn out again with the Supreme Court and the legislatures with voter suppression laws. They have right wing adjacent oligarchs buying up prominent social media platforms to turn them into right wing friendly platforms. And they are certainly going to try and dismantle the regulatory state with the current Supreme Court. They have an entire political organization backed by right wing media, mega-billionaires and political operatives that wants to reshape the country.

The Left has no way to go on the offensive. How do you stop Foxnews and all the various propaganda outlets? How do you stop the super-rich from interfering in elections? How do you stop the Supreme Court from wrecking everything?

The only answer I have gotten is "voting" and it's clearly not working on my end or that of many others.

 

[Wheelimus]

It happened because twice now Electoral College math has fucked us, most recently in 2016. A Supreme Court with 3 Justices appointed by Hillary Clinton would have made a completely different decision. But enough people stayed at home or voted third party that Donald ******* Trump won a term as President. And now you think the answer is to stop voting. Madness. Vote harder, organize harder, because we live in a center-right country. We're always going to have to work harder than conservatives.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

I'm just pointing out voting isn't as useful or the end all be all that people on the internet are making it out to be. If you look at it in totally strategic terms, voting for the left is entirely defensive to shore up and maintain a crumbling status quo and it's not working.

However the Right is going on the offensive. They are destroying labor and unions with the Supreme Court and the local state legislatures. They are suppressing voter rights and voter turn out again with the Supreme Court and the legislatures with voter suppression laws. They have right wing adjacent oligarchs buying up prominent social media platforms to turn them into right wing friendly platforms. And they are certainly going to try and dismantle the regulatory state with the current Supreme Court. They have an entire political organization backed by right wing media, mega-billionaires and political operatives that wants to reshape the country.

The Left has no way to go on the offensive. How do you stop Foxnews and all the various propaganda outlets? How do you stop the super-rich from interfering in elections? How do you stop the Supreme Court from wrecking everything?

The only answer I have gotten is "voting" and it's clearly not working on my end or that of many others.

There is a HUGE difference between "voting is insufficient" (what you're now saying) and "voting is useless."

We can discuss the need for additional action, but this idea that voting doesn't do anything... it's not only just wrong, it's harmful.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Because this is very, very relevant.

Also: swearing.