Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Axaday

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Yeah, it really didn't hit for me either, like, if I'd seen Balance of Terror, I hadn't seen it recently or remembered it as particularly notable.

I didn't see anyone saying this last year. I just watched the episode this morning and I didn't care for it at all.

I'd like to talk to the producers about it. Why are we doing any of this? All told, I liked Season 1. On its good days it was pretty good. On its worst days it wasn't worse than the worst of Golden Age Trek (and that is saying something. Discover IS and so is Picard). The Gorn episode was a shameless (shameful?) Alien redo event and like the storybook episode they land an impact in the final scene that once again is not satisfying.

But the Romulan episode is just totally wrong. Totally. I've been tacitly willing to overlook a lot of changed premises to do this show and make it work as a modern show and they've had a lot of successes. Captain Pike is just a totally different person with the same name. M'Benga, Chapel, and Uhura we honestly didn't know enough about to be sure. They redressed the ship and costumes and props to look better on a modern TV show and I was okay with all of that. The point, I think, was to flesh out all of these characters and show that in their own time they all did great.

The point of this episode is that Pike is not the man we need in a pinch and that luckily for the universe he got sidelined before he really screwed everything up. Almost like a time traveller went back and caused his accident to prevent everything from going wrong. Is the point of this show to glorify James Kirk? That's what I'm getting today. I loved seeing the maroon uniform! But it is confusing to my brain (admittedly autistic) to jump forward. I precariously placed this cast as what Uhura, Chapel, and Spock looked like when they were younger, but then you jump to when I knew them and they STILL look like this? And the hopeful, diplomatic style that they've been building on Pike for a season turns out to be a super dangerous thing outside its natural bounds. All through the episode I feel like the solution to this problem is not to blow Pike and a couple cadets up to save the future, but learn how to properly handle this incident, but since they also noticed that they peg on at the end that they looked at every scenario and even having Pike retire won't help, apparently, or calling in sick that week and letting the Farragut handle it. EVERYTHING other than totally sidelining Pike for good leads to Spock getting killed? Even making a change after he has left Enterprise and Spock is Kirk's first officer? I don't buy it and I don't appreciate it. Pike's accident is supposed to be a tragic accident and a heroic sacrifice to save cadets. It isn't supposed to be a power move to save the Galaxy. I don't buy it. And I don't appreciate it.
 

The Predaking

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But the Romulan episode is just totally wrong. Totally. I've been tacitly willing to overlook a lot of changed premises to do this show and make it work as a modern show and they've had a lot of successes. Captain Pike is just a totally different person with the same name. M'Benga, Chapel, and Uhura we honestly didn't know enough about to be sure. They redressed the ship and costumes and props to look better on a modern TV show and I was okay with all of that. The point, I think, was to flesh out all of these characters and show that in their own time they all did great.

The point of this episode is that Pike is not the man we need in a pinch and that luckily for the universe he got sidelined before he really screwed everything up. Almost like a time traveller went back and caused his accident to prevent everything from going wrong. Is the point of this show to glorify James Kirk? That's what I'm getting today. I loved seeing the maroon uniform! But it is confusing to my brain (admittedly autistic) to jump forward. I precariously placed this cast as what Uhura, Chapel, and Spock looked like when they were younger, but then you jump to when I knew them and they STILL look like this? And the hopeful, diplomatic style that they've been building on Pike for a season turns out to be a super dangerous thing outside its natural bounds. All through the episode I feel like the solution to this problem is not to blow Pike and a couple cadets up to save the future, but learn how to properly handle this incident, but since they also noticed that they peg on at the end that they looked at every scenario and even having Pike retire won't help, apparently, or calling in sick that week and letting the Farragut handle it. EVERYTHING other than totally sidelining Pike for good leads to Spock getting killed? Even making a change after he has left Enterprise and Spock is Kirk's first officer? I don't buy it and I don't appreciate it. Pike's accident is supposed to be a tragic accident and a heroic sacrifice to save cadets. It isn't supposed to be a power move to save the Galaxy. I don't buy it. And I don't appreciate it.

The point of the episode was to show how dangerous it was to mess with the timeline. That if Pike stayed in Command of the Enterprise, he would make different decisions than Kirk did. Not to glorify Kirk over Pike, but just to show that they are completely different captains. Those differences would result in the Romulans successfully testing their new technology and finding the Federation weak, thus starting a very long war considering it goes all the way to the maroon outfits of TWOK era. It also resulted in Pike trading his fate with Spock, and that is not something that Pike is willing to do. Pike would rather take that bullet than pass it on to someone else. So rather than trying to alter his fate, for the fate of his friend and the federation itself, he finally accepts his doom.
 

The Predaking

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Loved the Romulon captain in the finale. Cool on Kirk's gambit. Great ep but I'm not too clear on the supposed right timeline.

The supposed best way was for Kirk to have shot down the assassin ship?

So as others have mentioned, in TOS their was a great episode called Balance of Terror. The basic plot is this.

Decades ago, between the Enterprise era and the TOS era, the Federation went to war with the Romulan Star Empire. It was mostly long-range war, with no real ground fighting, so no one had actually seen a Romulan before. They eventually had a peace accord via Radio and setup the Neutral Zone as a buffer space between the two powers. The Federation setup starbases all along the Neutral zone to make sure that the Romulans stay out of it and on their side. Eventually, just like the SNW episode you watched, the Romulans attacked with a new cloaked ship that had this massively powerful but slow attack. Perfect for destroying Starbases. Kirk and crew show up to help, and have this epic Submarine style hunt for each other. Eventually the Enterprise hacks the ship to see the bridge to find that the Romulans look just like Vulcans. This causes some issues with a few of the people on the bridge, but Kirk shoots that down instantly, "There will be no bigotry on my bridge". Kirk's actions in the TOS episode are a bit different than Pike's, but I will let you watch the episode, as its a classic.
 

Fero McPigletron

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Yeah, the ka'athyra dates from TOS.

What in heaven's was that?!? Haha!

Ooooh, I really had no idea that Spock played that instrument for real! I thought it was a temp joke thing they put in for Spock to get less stressed, haha

I'm going to have to watch Balance of Terror but I'm in s2 and I just saw the first and second original movies. I did not realize that La'an is a descendant of Khan. Or ancestor of Khan? Khan dies during Kirk's time ala the future of SNW.

And I just saw the third ep of S2 SNW. Awesome time travel ep ala Terminator, though I raise an eyebrow at betting on chess games, haha. Loved the Lathanite spelling assistance. Soooo that kid in the facility is not Khan of Wrath of Khan? Or is he? I don't know what race Wrath Khan is, if they're long loved or not. Unless he's just augmented human?
 

Cybersnark

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Khan is an Augmented human, but he spent two hundred years or so in stasis after leaving Earth, which is where Kirk found him.

(The original timeline had Khan and his followers leaving Earth in the 1990s, which made sense in the 60s, but proved overly optimistic with regards to technology.)

(The novels explained it by having the Botany Bay be an experimental design from Area 51.)
 

The Predaking

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What in heaven's was that?!? Haha!

Ooooh, I really had no idea that Spock played that instrument for real! I thought it was a temp joke thing they put in for Spock to get less stressed, haha

I'm going to have to watch Balance of Terror but I'm in s2 and I just saw the first and second original movies. I did not realize that La'an is a descendant of Khan. Or ancestor of Khan? Khan dies during Kirk's time ala the future of SNW.

And I just saw the third ep of S2 SNW. Awesome time travel ep ala Terminator, though I raise an eyebrow at betting on chess games, haha. Loved the Lathanite spelling assistance. Soooo that kid in the facility is not Khan of Wrath of Khan? Or is he? I don't know what race Wrath Khan is, if they're long loved or not. Unless he's just augmented human?


Okay. Khan time.

Khan is an augmented human that led the largest of the augment nations. He was the least tyrannical of the group of rulers but still was a tyrant. Eventually after the Eugenics wars, he and his closest Augments boarded a top of the line, at the time, cryogenic sleeper ship and launched themselves into the stars to flee Earth. This was before Earth met the Vulcans in First Contact. So, in the TOS episode Space Seed (Another great episode that you should watch) Kirk and crew stumble upon the sleeper ship centuries later and wake up the augments not really knowing who they were. Eventually, Khan and his crew take over the Enterprise, but Kirk beats Khan down, and takes back the ship. They Maroon the augments on empty but viable world called Ceta Alpha 5. Khan even quotes Paradise Lost about how happy he is to get this new world to conquer.

La'an is a descendant of Khan's. They haven't really said how they were related. Was she descended from a concubine? Who knows? But the name and the family shame has followed her all of her life. Which is why they were refugees going to a colony when they were captured by the Gorn.

So here is where the kid form SNW comes in. During the Enterprise series, we have a lot of focus on what is called the Temporal cold war. Basically, some Romulans were trying to go back and change the past so that the Federation wouldn't be a threat. Just like the SNW episode, the Romulans were focused on stopping Earth from ever even forming the Federation. So, this has affected the timeline. However, the timeline pushes back. It reinserts key moments into history to make sure events still happen. For example the Eugenics wars were originally supposed to happen in the 1990s, about 25-30 years in the future from the time of TOS' airing, but now occur 25 years after the SNW episode takes place. The general idea is that the writers want that the Eugenics War to always be 25-30 years ahead of where we as the audience are, in order to have Star Trek as our possible future.

So, to answer the question about the kid, yes, that was Khan Noonien Singh from the TOS episode and the second film, The Warth of Khan.
 

Fero McPigletron

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Wrath Khan was in TOS?!? Dang! I have to check a pic of that...

Edit - holy cow, it's the same actor?! I'm only familiar with the Wrath Khan movie look. That's cool on show continuity, hehe
IMG_20230815_001220.jpg
 
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Copper Bezel

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I'm impressed, not gonna lie, you've crossed the line into stuff that even non-Trek-fans know about.

But the Romulan episode is just totally wrong. Totally. I've been tacitly willing to overlook a lot of changed premises to do this show and make it work as a modern show and they've had a lot of successes. Captain Pike is just a totally different person with the same name. M'Benga, Chapel, and Uhura we honestly didn't know enough about to be sure. They redressed the ship and costumes and props to look better on a modern TV show and I was okay with all of that. The point, I think, was to flesh out all of these characters and show that in their own time they all did great.

The point of this episode is that Pike is not the man we need in a pinch and that luckily for the universe he got sidelined before he really screwed everything up. Almost like a time traveller went back and caused his accident to prevent everything from going wrong. Is the point of this show to glorify James Kirk? That's what I'm getting today. I loved seeing the maroon uniform! But it is confusing to my brain (admittedly autistic) to jump forward. I precariously placed this cast as what Uhura, Chapel, and Spock looked like when they were younger, but then you jump to when I knew them and they STILL look like this? And the hopeful, diplomatic style that they've been building on Pike for a season turns out to be a super dangerous thing outside its natural bounds. All through the episode I feel like the solution to this problem is not to blow Pike and a couple cadets up to save the future, but learn how to properly handle this incident, but since they also noticed that they peg on at the end that they looked at every scenario and even having Pike retire won't help, apparently, or calling in sick that week and letting the Farragut handle it. EVERYTHING other than totally sidelining Pike for good leads to Spock getting killed? Even making a change after he has left Enterprise and Spock is Kirk's first officer? I don't buy it and I don't appreciate it. Pike's accident is supposed to be a tragic accident and a heroic sacrifice to save cadets. It isn't supposed to be a power move to save the Galaxy. I don't buy it. And I don't appreciate it.
I have only the mealy-mouthedest of takes.

I haven't seen The Flash, but I have seen the Bob Chipman YouTube video where he talks about how out of touch it is to be making time travel stories in 2023 where the moral is that you can't make the world a better place or improve your lot in life. That seems really obvious to me now, but a year ago, when I saw "Quality of Mercy", I wouldn't have responded to it with any kind of clarity of conviction. I think even now a part of me thinks of it more in terms of, well, I guess they felt some kind of responsibility to this detached living human pancreas they inherited from Discovery that they just have to wheel into the scene on its bloodbag stand every once in a while to remind us it's in the room while they keep it alive with its little fish pump or whatever.

Like, SNW has leaned hard into the choice to have Pike know in advance, something that doesn't make his future decision to risk himself to save others more heroic, but is the only he can have already made it in a prequel, so it's the only way to get any thematic mileage or plot material about something that hasn't yet happened to him. (Other than like, long, lingering foreshadowing shots of someone else's beep chair, but that's biopic shit, fictional stories have to be a little more subtle about their teleology.)

As much as I like a good "punch destiny in the face with the fist of your heart" kinda story, I was okay bracketing another "you literally can't change the future no matter what you do" story in Trek as just following form, just sigh and move on. Plus, like there are fans out there who have deeply internalized this whole temporal Prime Directive thing, and believe that if time travel was possible in real life and someone sent them back to 1889 Germany, they would be morally correct not to kill Hitler. (Those sorts of folks don't like Janeway very much.) And time travel is impossible, and accepting our own life history is probably more important to the human condition than fantasizing about being able to change it. So like, every time travel story is going to become "It's a Wonderful Life" on some level, and it's a slog but I kinda get it.

It was only when S2 like Fero's talking about, and like, as near to literally asking a character to kill Hitler, that it just becomes an actual joke for me.

The point of the episode was to show how dangerous it was to mess with the timeline.
Okay, so if you're not aware, the first thing you need to know is that science fiction math has lied to you about this since childhood. There are time travel stories where avoiding disrupting the timeline is the stakes in an internally coherent way, usually involving the grandfather paradox, Back to the Future 1 is the preeminent example. Disrupting the past will cause our hero or heroes to cease to exist or become the Terran Alliance of space fascists or something. And this makes sense, you really would create a paradox in that situation and that sounds bad. (This is partly ignored in Star Trek, of course - whoever's doing the time travel shenanigans is protected from it effects as a matter of course - but the need to change history back so that Starfleet exists is usually enough conflict for a plot.)

There are also stories where we get to see that thing future Pike alludes to, where the universe is stuck on a particular outcome and nothing you can do will change its mind. I think you get to see that play out in Doctor Who sometimes. This also means we have even less free will than we think we do, because we somehow live in a deterministic universe, and also there's destiny, a way that things are supposed to turn out if the normal course of causality in the universe (which includes time travel!) doesn't play out as destiny wants it to. Unlike the paradox thing, this isn't really based on any science speculation or anything, it's just sort of narratively compelling.

Except in some cases, like this one, it's destiny but with spite, and it gives you two options, and you can save yourself or your friend but not both. That is the wholly unmasked forced situation created in "Quality of Mercy". There's still no "danger" to "messing with" the timeline, Future Pike has messed with it long enough that he could write papers on it, it's just that the timeline is anthropocentric and always extracts a proportionate narrative cost. And he's messing with his own timeline to boot! All his own experimentation at changing his future never worked, so now he can tell his past self not to bother because he can just tell him what he found out. So the timeline is completely okay with him changing his intermediate present, just not anything canonically important.

And keep in mind, Pike isn't trying to change his past, it's his future. Literally every decision he makes also equally changes the course of his future. The sequence of events that happened are just one of an unlimited number of possibilities, because that's what life is, even if the outcomes are technically each inevitable and predictable with complete information and could be simulated with the same amount of information as seems to be present in reality itself. The idea that this kind of changing his future is more likely to lead to horrible disfigurements and tragedy than this other kind of changing his future is, is actually completely made up. Insisting that you can't predict the future and than whatever you do could turn out to be the worst possible thing is something you confess to your therapist, not your sci-fi script. Like the future we've seen throughout the rest of Trek isn't the one special only possible way that things in the universe can be right on the basis that it's had a bunch of TV shows about it, except that it absolutely just is.

(If you are magically transported to Germany, 1889, you should also consider your future (I.e. the future of the world from your vantage point) open to whatever change is most appropriate, and kill Hitler, which will also lead to a somewhat better future for at least some significant period of time. But time travel doesn't exist so this is less important you understand.)

And "except that it is" is the ultimate thematic lynchpin here. Because restoring the canonical timeline that's on the Memory Alpha wiki so all the fans can breathe a sigh of relief, and so that William Shatner's Kirk has will been looked good, is, ultimately, at long last, the true thematic purpose of this episode.
 

The Predaking

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Wrath Khan was in TOS?!? Dang! I have to check a pic of that...

Edit - holy cow, it's the same actor?! I'm only familiar with the Wrath Khan movie look. That's cool on show continuity, hehe
View attachment 15995

Yup. Its Ricardo Montalban. He was a great actor, and got really popular after TOS, especially for his TV series Fantasy Island in the 70s. He reprised the role for the second film because he was especially pleased with the script and how his character was always on the forefront. He was a great actor and gave us one of the best Star Trek characters ever.
 

Copper Bezel

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I was honestly convinced that he was two completely different actors until pretty recently looking it up. I had no idea who played Khan in TOS but thought it was some other dude. I would not peg them for the same guy. Mix of age, a very different presentation, and seeming difference of ethnic coding I think.
 

The Predaking

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That voice of his is the same though. I grew up watching TWOK over and over again, so when I finally saw the TOS episode, I knew right away.
 

Cybersnark

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And keep in mind, Pike isn't trying to change his past, it's his future. Literally every decision he makes also equally changes the course of his future. The sequence of events that happened are just one of an unlimited number of possibilities, because that's what life is, even if the outcomes are technically each inevitable and predictable with complete information and could be simulated with the same amount of information as seems to be present in reality itself. The idea that this kind of changing his future is more likely to lead to horrible disfigurements and tragedy than this other kind of changing his future is, is actually completely made up. Insisting that you can't predict the future and than whatever you do could turn out to be the worst possible thing is something you confess to your therapist, not your sci-fi script. Like the future we've seen throughout the rest of Trek isn't the one special only possible way that things in the universe can be right on the basis that it's had a bunch of TV shows about it, except that it absolutely just is.
I think it's more flexible than that; Star Trek has long relied on the idea that parallel timelines are actually parallel, meaning that choices are not completely random, but are guided by probability --some events are more likely than others, all else being equal. Something that happens in one universe (like a random group of people all being born and coming together on the same starship or station) seems to have an increased likelihood of happening in another universe, and another, and so on.

This was hinted at in the Original Series (in "Mirror, Mirror" and "The Alternative Factor"), Spock commented on it directly in the 2009 movie, and Worf saw it in "Parallels," where some of the alternate timelines were so similar that he didn't initially realize he'd shifted, but Discovery all but confirmed it by establishing that by the 32nd century the "Mirror" universe has diverged so much that it is no longer "accessible" (i.e., no longer a parallel universe, but just one other possibility out there in the limitless multiverse).

(Pike, of course, can't possibly know all this, so it's fair to assume that future-Pike is basing his findings on a sample size of one person.)

So it's fallacious to think of it as a matter of hard predestination, where things simply happen because some jackass god on a fancy chair has decreed it so. It's more like inertia. If I roll a bowling ball down a hill, and you try to stop it with a firehose, that ball is going to reach the bottom, even if you do manage to shift the exact location and position where it comes to rest.

In the "Kill Hitler" example; killing baby Adolf would not stop WWII, it would just mean that the Nazis were led by someone else. Maybe even someone actually competent, and now we're living in The Man In The High Castle's universe.
 

Copper Bezel

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It's still a destiny thing though. Like, the bowling ball is invisible or doesn't exist yet, but no matter what you do, a bowling ball will somehow get to the bottom of the hill. That's why the Romulans had so much trouble with the Eugenics War, because they kept preventing it and it just kept happening later anyway like Skynet. The universe wants its bowling ball and someone is going to show up to provide it.

It's never the case that the bowling ball is already rolling and simple causality says it's going to get to the bottom. Otherwise you could always just go a little further back in time and tip the ball to fall down the other side of the ridge instead. That's not how these stories work.

Actual predestination in time travel stories is easy. If everything is causally predetermined, then time travel never changes anything no matter how tiny the detail and the history you know is already the one that whatever interference you're going to make has already happened.

It doesn't quite fit into any of this, but I should say that "random" does not exclusively mean "50/50 chance". A "random" result *is* the result of probability, probability does not exclude randomness (it requires it.)

In the "Kill Hitler" example; killing baby Adolf would not stop WWII, it would just mean that the Nazis were led by someone else. Maybe even someone actually competent, and now we're living in The Man In The High Castle's universe.
It has to be a worse outcome somehow, because the writers cannot reasonably deal with a universe where time travel is routinely used to fix mistakes or avert catastrophes, so the results of interfering with the timeline must always be unambiguously bad. Very often a catastrophic event happens, by chance, to be the necessary inoculation for the universe against a second, bigger catastrophe, so we have to let the first catastrophe happen, and we never hear about the third, biggest catastrophe that would only have been prevented by allowing the second to happen by preventing the first. The math will never work out on something that is fundamentally a storytelling convention with a very specific out-of-universe job to do.

It's not smart or speculative, it's just the hacks you have to make to hold the story together, and I wish they'd stop dedicating whole season arcs to exploring the sociological implications of individual lampshades. It doesn't have anything to do with how causality works in the real world or anything like that, there's not any real speculative fiction happening. It's just tropes on tropes.
 

G.B.Blackrock

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It has to be a worse outcome somehow, because the writers cannot reasonably deal with a universe where time travel is routinely used to fix mistakes or avert catastrophes, so the results of interfering with the timeline must always be unambiguously bad.
While this is the usual truth, Quantum Leap very much turns that idea on its head.


More to the point of the rest of your post. Tropes aren't inherently bad. It's all about how they're used.

But I'd be happy if they'd stop it with the season arcs, myself.
 

Fero McPigletron

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Finished season 2. Man, I think I shouldn't binge these. I end up losing sleep.

The forgetting planet made me think of the Memento movie and it's a pretty scary predicament. But OMQ, Erica became my favorite character because of her I am Erica Ortega's. I fly the ship! Luuuuved it!

Odd to me but Spock isn't a favorite character of mine. I didn't care much for his human switch. Maybe it's cuz it's all about his marriage stuff. I did enjoy his mini bathroom punchy tantrum, haha

I felt sad for the poor guy with the hallucinations. Would have been nice to see the creatures tho. I'd like to see more of Pelia the engineer. I would have loved to see her interact with Hemmer, when he was alive.

Saw the crossover ep before. But it was only now that I got that La'an was telling Boimler to be careful of messing with the past cuz she was recovering from Kirk heartache.

The war flashback ep was gritty but I didn't get the ending. What was that thing on the healing pad? Alvarado? Did I miss something? And also I doubt Benga could kill a bunch of Klingon generals, with or without his drug.

The musical ep was great fun but, darn, I would have enjoyed it more if I didn't see the Klingon bit beforehand. I thought there's be more silliness along those lines but it was all about resolving the relationships. I'm actually glad the La'an and Chapel stuff is out of the way. Cool that I saw in Wrath of Khan movie that Kirk had a child and this Carol being pregnant must be referencing it.

The Gorn in space suit looks great! Very cool looking! Scotty seems very suspicious btw. So many coincidences for him. Since Batel didn't die in this ep, I'm sure she'll survive next season. Though I kinda want Pike to fool around more, haha. Honestly, there's not enough Pike centric stuff.

Anyhow, SNW is quite awesome. Looking forward to more.

Only going to watch the Star Trek movies when I visit my friend. Will be watching Next Gen next.
 

Copper Bezel

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The forgetting planet made me think of the Memento movie and it's a pretty scary predicament. But OMQ, Erica became my favorite character because of her I am Erica Ortega's. I fly the ship! Luuuuved it!
I think that was my favorite episode this season. I loved Erica's bit so much too 😁

The war flashback ep was gritty but I didn't get the ending. What was that thing on the healing pad? Alvarado? Did I miss something? And also I doubt Benga could kill a bunch of Klingon generals, with or without his drug.
The transporter pad they use to bring people into the field hospital is just like a ship transporter pad, a semi-mobile model that can be set up for temporary planetside facilities. It receives transports sent in from other pads. Alvarado was a guy who came in among a larger group of patients on the transporter receiver pad with his entire guts coming out, and they knew they couldn't save without a real hospital ship or similar facilities, so as far as the field hospital was concerned, he would be triaged to beyond help. Mbenga told Chapel how to save his pattern in the transport pad's memory buffer instead, the same trick we find out in TNG Scotty does to himself later on and that Mbenga uses in SNW S1 to keep his daughter in stasis. Later in the episode, they need to transport a massive number of people in very fast, and the only way to do it is to clear the buffer. So Mbenga has to delete his would-be patient as a matter of triage and Chapel is the one other person who knows what's happening and gets to appreciate the gutpunch the audience is feeling.
 

Andrusi

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It has to be a worse outcome somehow, because the writers cannot reasonably deal with a universe where time travel is routinely used to fix mistakes or avert catastrophes, so the results of interfering with the timeline must always be unambiguously bad.
While this is the usual truth, Quantum Leap very much turns that idea on its head.
I'd argue that Quantum Leap still doesn't have the writers dealing with a universe where time travel makes things better. It's just that instead of avoiding time travel making things better, they avoid dealing with the universe.
 

The Predaking

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It's still a destiny thing though. Like, the bowling ball is invisible or doesn't exist yet, but no matter what you do, a bowling ball will somehow get to the bottom of the hill. That's why the Romulans had so much trouble with the Eugenics War, because they kept preventing it and it just kept happening later anyway like Skynet. The universe wants its bowling ball and someone is going to show up to provide it.

It's never the case that the bowling ball is already rolling and simple causality says it's going to get to the bottom. Otherwise you could always just go a little further back in time and tip the ball to fall down the other side of the ridge instead. That's not how these stories work.

Actual predestination in time travel stories is easy. If everything is causally predetermined, then time travel never changes anything no matter how tiny the detail and the history you know is already the one that whatever interference you're going to make has already happened.

It doesn't quite fit into any of this, but I should say that "random" does not exclusively mean "50/50 chance". A "random" result *is* the result of probability, probability does not exclude randomness (it requires it.)


It has to be a worse outcome somehow, because the writers cannot reasonably deal with a universe where time travel is routinely used to fix mistakes or avert catastrophes, so the results of interfering with the timeline must always be unambiguously bad. Very often a catastrophic event happens, by chance, to be the necessary inoculation for the universe against a second, bigger catastrophe, so we have to let the first catastrophe happen, and we never hear about the third, biggest catastrophe that would only have been prevented by allowing the second to happen by preventing the first. The math will never work out on something that is fundamentally a storytelling convention with a very specific out-of-universe job to do.

It's not smart or speculative, it's just the hacks you have to make to hold the story together, and I wish they'd stop dedicating whole season arcs to exploring the sociological implications of individual lampshades. It doesn't have anything to do with how causality works in the real world or anything like that, there's not any real speculative fiction happening. It's just tropes on tropes.

The Fox Kids X-men series had a time travel story were Bishop changed the future for the better where the world didn't have Sentinels in charge of everyone, but unfortunately there was a plague now.
 


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