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@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 02:20 AM)

Why do you hate yourself?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (24 August 2016 - 12:45 AM)

I still need to read everything after Vol. 1 of RG1...

@  Telly : (23 August 2016 - 11:47 PM)

i really wouldve liked to see rg1 pick up where the marvel run left off (or just a couple years after), instead of jumping 20 years. i wanna see how shit went down on earth

@  Dracula : (23 August 2016 - 09:54 PM)

After RG1, I'd just as soon have nobody ever touch the marvel continuity again


Transformers Timelines II #7 - Transformers Invasion


58 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:23 PM

Please feel free to move this to the comics section.

Also, reading this thread assumes you either read the comic or don't care to be protected from plot, so read at your own risk...




So what did you think? I heard some people complain that the ending was hard to understand, but I didn't see it as being very vague. I wonder if the plot of this comic has anything to do with the canceled "The Ultimate Salvation" story by Fun Pub. The ending really seemed like a twisted version The Ultimate's Doom's plot.

BTW - Did you notice the cameos by Universe Legends Cosmos and Gentei Dark Skyfire?

Edited by mignash, 03 May 2012 - 07:24 PM.


#2 Walky

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:21 PM

"Ultimate Salvation" will be finished later at some point and will tie up loose ends so that things can move on into this story as a fresh start. It's not canceled. This story is a separate thing.

#3 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:12 PM

Glad to know it will be printed eventually.

Again, plot warning below....




Okay, so Classicverse characters who live (assuming the damaged Autobot get repaired, as the club hinted) and are on Earth are:

Autobots
Blaster
Cosmos
Crossblades
Fortress Maximus
Grimlock
Ironhide
Jazz
Kick-Off
Metalhawk
Perceptor
Prowl
Ratchet
Rescue Roy
Scoop
Sideswipe
Silverbolt
Sunstreaker
Tracks
Ultra Magnus
Vroom
Warpath
Wheeljack

Grappel was seen in the Invasion Lithograph, but wasn't in the comic, so I guess he's still alive somewhere.

Decepticons
Carnivac
Dirge
Dreadwind
Gigatron
Horri-Bull
Megatron
Octopunch
Overbite
Seawing
Skalor
Skullgrin (Seen on the Lithograph in updated form, so I assume he lives and gets the upgrade)
Snaptrap
Snarler
Spinsiter
Stranglehold
Thrust
Weirdwolf

Dead Autobots: (all killed by the Junkions)
Broadside
Jackpot
Mainframe
Outback
Rad
Rollout
Sandstorm
Slapdash (What happens to his Nebulan anyways?)

Dead Decepticons (killed by a stampede of buffalo)
Nautilator
Tentakil


Minor complaints? They bother making a Transforming version of Kick-Off, and in the comic he never transforms! Come on, that seems like a given if you make an updated Transforming Action Master. Also, there was several panels where SG Decepticons seem to have purple Decepticon symbols. Sorta important to the plot.

Edited by mignash, 19 February 2013 - 06:52 AM.


#4 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:47 AM

Kick-Off doesn't like altmodes anyway, so not transforming kinda makes sense.

Edited by Item42, 04 May 2012 - 01:47 AM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#5 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:02 AM

So... what's the best option for a Canadian to catch up on these? Mind, my LCBS seems to be pretty bad about getting the Fun Pub stuff even after it goes public, and I think the only one I have is the last Classics one with Ultra Magnus and crew.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#6 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:22 AM

EBay?

#7 Echowarrior

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:56 AM

I'd think this'll be available through the Club Store at some point. That's where I'll get it eventually, at any rate.
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#8 NightViper

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:56 AM

I don't believe that they sold out, so whatever is left should be available at the Club Store eventually.

Also, for those looking to get the first Shattered Glass comic, I believe that Fun Pub is sold out of those. Which would mean that eBay is probably your best bet for the 2008 BotCon comic.

#9 Mouse_Pad

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:23 PM

It seems to me that the story is really inaccessible if you haven't been keeping up with the club/BC fiction (and even so, I find myself getting confused about who's good and who's evil). This comic seems like set-up for what's to come, and not at all a complete story. I expected Overlord to be a major player in the comic, but he just kind of shows up, fights a little, and does nothing of consequence. It also doesn't hint at why the Magnus toy has a clear face. A universe is destroyed (fairly unbelievably) and there are no emotions or consequences shown. In general, it seemed like the story was far too big for the space it was allotted.

That said, it is an interesting set-up. I look forward to reading more about this new clusterhug of a continuity.

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#10 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:02 PM

Luckily with a mirror universe you don't really need to know the character if you know the opposite. Who is that red car? He's evil Tracks! Like Tracks, but evil. Most of the Major characters in this story were new anyways.

#11 Walky

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:26 PM

Reasons to like Classicsverse more than G2:

Nightbeat is alive.

#12 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

Sure, he's PROBABLY dead.

Thing is there is pleanty of time that passed between Cheap Shots/At Game's End and Invasion that we don't really know where any off-screen Transformers were at the time of the destruction of the Classicverse. For all we know any off world Autobot or Decepticon could have been on Earth until the club tells us explicitly they are dead. Have they said specifically Nightbeat's crew was still off earth at the time the universe ended? Be a shame if the club killed off more of it's exclusives.


#13 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:51 AM

So... why destroy the Classicsverse? And what destroyed it?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#14 NightViper

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:54 AM

QUOTE(LBD @ May 5 2012, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So... why destroy the Classicsverse?


Part of it was due to ReGeneration One. Since they are both meant as a continuation of the Marvel Comics run, it was a bit of courtesy to Simon Furman to clear the way so that no one viewed them as competing timelines.

QUOTE(LBD @ May 5 2012, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And what destroyed it?


HIGHLIGHT to view:
A combination of SG Ultra Magnus, an artifact called the Terminus Blade, and the rarified Energon on Classics Earth. Ultra Magnus wanted part of Classics Earth moved into the Shattered Glass Universe, and doing so destroyed the rest of the Classicsverse.

#15 Agent X

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:22 PM

Tell me about this "Ultimate Salvation".
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#16 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:47 PM

Two more minor quibbles about Invasion...

1. Blaster is featured on the cover as one of the two "GOOD GUYS." with Metalhawk. Blaster only appeared in one group shot on the monitor on the cover. He didn't do anything or speak.

2. Perceptor appeared in his G1 Marvel style body design, but back in the Botcon Classicverse Lithograph we saw Perceptor in his newer Legends body. Did they just abandon that update for the retro look of his G1 body?

#17 Walky

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:32 PM

1) The cover was limited to toys in the box set, presumably so they could release it ahead of the show and keep the at-show toys a surprise, even though this didn't happen. Metalhawk was the only Heroic Autobot in the set, so his other guy is bound to be less important. And Buster Jones, the voice of Blaster, was at the convention itself for the first time.

2) There are a lot of guys with upgraded bodies in the lithograph other than Perceptor. Tracks, Warpath, and Wheeljack all appear in their Generations/RTS bodies, and they are only seen in their original bodies in the comic itself. Of course, they're all slaughtered with the express purpose of upgrading them later into those new bodies, so I personally view the lithograph as a snapshot into the future, after everyone's been upgraded.

#18 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:17 PM

1. Okay, I get putting the guy who was appearing at the convention on the cover. Skullgrin made sense since he did something in the comic. I forgot Buster was there signing autographs.

2. I was talking about the CLASSICVERSE Lithograph from years back, not the Invasion Lithograph.

#19 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:35 AM

QUOTE(NightViper @ May 5 2012, 07:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(LBD @ May 5 2012, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So... why destroy the Classicsverse?


Part of it was due to ReGeneration One. Since they are both meant as a continuation of the Marvel Comics run, it was a bit of courtesy to Simon Furman to clear the way so that no one viewed them as competing timelines.

QUOTE(LBD @ May 5 2012, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And what destroyed it?


HIGHLIGHT to view:
A combination of SG Ultra Magnus, an artifact called the Terminus Blade, and the rarified Energon on Classics Earth. Ultra Magnus wanted part of Classics Earth moved into the Shattered Glass Universe, and doing so destroyed the rest of the Classicsverse.


Thanks! And wow... something about that just doesn't sit right.

How much did he take? And does this affect RGO and G2?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#20 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:38 PM

I thought I talked about this at the Comic panel... Not everyone NOT on Classics earth is dead. How is this possible?

TCC Comic 2013 - (Insert awesome title here!)



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