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@  Benbot : (25 August 2016 - 07:34 AM)

What?

@  MEDdMI : (25 August 2016 - 05:58 AM)

Aren't we the ones causing trouble for Kalidor?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.


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613 replies to this topic

#401 Shockwave 75

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:06 PM

QUOTE(Daytonus @ May 5 2012, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd probably feel bad about a duplicate. Wrong toy though? "Oh, you don't want it? We can give it to your sister."

I see what you're saying, and I partially agree. If a kid is given a toy as a gift they should be grateful no matter what it is, but the idea is still valid. If a kid got a toy he did want/like they caould always return it for exchange.



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#402 Daytonus

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:19 PM

But to return to the point, I'm saying that a marketing department is going to want to lower the bar for differentiation as much as possible. The reasons for doing so are not necessarily "the lowest common denominator" like quite a few folks in this thread seem to be insinuating, but simply that the average parent probably doesn't care quite that much.

As a kid, I just got whatever Transformers my mom could find--I didn't get specific figures until I started buying them myself.

#403 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:42 PM

QUOTE(Shockwave 75 @ May 5 2012, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(▲ndrusi @ May 4 2012, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Shockwave 75 @ May 4 2012, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Besides, what's the big deal if a parent accidentally buys the wrong one?

The problem isn't that parents can't tell them apart so they buy the wrong one.

The problem is that parents can't tell them apart so they buy one and then never buy any of the others because they're 100% confident their kid already has the gray and gold dinosaur.

No, the problem is you conveniently left out the rest of the paragraph you quoted, especially the very next sentence:

QUOTE(Shockwave 75 @ May 4 2012, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
....The kid will know the difference instantly. That's what reciepts are for! Just return it for the right one. And by-and-large, likely the only time that a parent/adult would be toy shopping for a kid without said kid being with them, would be at X-Mas or for their birthday, or any similar special occasion.


Mommy comes home and says "Here, Billy. This is the one you wanted right?"
"No, Mom, that's Slag! I already have him, see. I need to get Snarl, the stegosaurus."
"Ok, well we'll go back tomorrow and see if they have the right one. ok?"


It's not as if said parent is not going to try and get their kid the right toy. You make it seem as if people will go and buy only one figure, and the kid be dammed if he already has it, or it's not the right one.
This is why stores have return policies in the first place.

Did... did you read my post before posting your reply?

Did you read it at all?

The thing you are assuring me will not be a problem is the thing I said was not the problem.

The thing I said was a problem, you have completely ignored.

Seriously, did you read what I said before you argued with it?

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#404 Shockwave 75

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

Yeah, I did. And it's completely negated by the very next sentence in my post.

Let the parents be 100% positive that they're buying the right one. Their kids will instantly let them know if they've bought the wrong one. Their kids will likely have let them know that there are in fact 5 different Dinobots before they even went shopping!

And, it occurs to me today, something that seems to have been neglected; this "parent problem" was really only viable 15 - 20 years ago when TF's were basically new.
I'll admit that back in the day my parents probably couldn't point out Blitzwing from Bumblebee, but they hadn't been educated on the differences either.
Today's kids likely have parents who grew up with Transformers. Even the ones who haven't really given a second thought to TF's since they hit puberty will not be 100% clueless when they're in that toy aisle. And, especially if they are of the G1 era, they will likely recognise many, if not most of the TF names that are currently in rotation. They may look different than the way they did when they were kids, but I'm sure the basic look and colour schemes of the Dinobots would seriously jog their memories.

Edited by Shockwave 75, 06 May 2012 - 09:18 AM.



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#405 Walky

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE(Shockwave 75 @ May 6 2012, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They may look different than the way they did when they were kids, but I'm sure the basic look and colour schemes of the Dinobots would seriously jog their memories.


ahahahaha

#406 CORVUS

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:18 AM

I fear I must echo Walky's laughter, and add in a hearty "Yeah, right".

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#407 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE(Shockwave 75 @ May 6 2012, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, I did. And it's completely negated by the very next sentence in my post.

Let the parents be 100% positive that they're buying the right one. Their kids will instantly let them know if they've bought the wrong one. Their kids will likely have let them know that there are in fact 5 different Dinobots before they even went shopping!

"...but it looks like they still only have this one here." Not completely negated.

Hell, only finally directly addressed now, rather than in the previous post, and even now I almost missed it because you tucked the relevance into a seeming afterthought. Don't expect me to connect the dots when you haven't actually provided the dots.

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#408 Smitty

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE(Shockwave 75 @ May 5 2012, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mommy comes home and says "Here, Billy. This is the one you wanted right?"
"No, Mom, that's Slag! I already have him, see. I need to get Snarl, the stegosaurus."
"Ok, well we'll go back tomorrow and see if they have the right one. ok?"


It's not as if said parent is not going to try and get their kid the right toy. You make it seem as if people will go and buy only one figure, and the kid be dammed if he already has it, or it's not the right one.
This is why stores have return policies in the first place.

My mother would have never done this. She would either told me "No you already have that one", or just taken me to the store and let me pick out the one I wanted then questioned if I already had that one if it look familiar to her.

I'm not a fan of voting on peoples posts. it just seems very passive aggressive to click 'down vote' and not add anything to the thread. and up votes are exactly the same. to my mind the whole point of a forum is discussion and being able to just easily agree or disagree takes the discussion out of the equation.


#409 Daytonus

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:17 PM

You're acting as if parenting is on some evolutionary scale where each generation is better than the last at picking out their children's toys.

#410 Kalidor

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:25 PM

I guess I should just be happy that my parents weren't idiots and could comprehend the words I had written on my Christmas list or trusted me enough when they said "pick out the one you want" that I myself wasn't an idiot and wouldn't buy I toy I already owned.

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#411 Walky

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:06 PM

All my Christmas toys were bought by my grandparents. Which is good, because grandparents really do have nothing else in their lives other than trying to comprehend some 8-year-old's scrawlings. Parents, not so much.

#412 Shockwave 75

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE(Daytonus @ May 6 2012, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're acting as if parenting is on some evolutionary scale where each generation is better than the last at picking out their children's toys.

Why shouldn't they be? Anybody who is now a parent and had grown up in the "toy culture" of the 80's, and pays any kind of attention to the things that interest their kids (as any good parent should), should have some kind of toy acumen.

My parents (both born in the 50's) grew up before there really were all kinds of toys like we had in the 80's. There the 12 inch Joes, Barbies (and the like), and then lots of tin/wooden toys. The action figure as we know it really didn't exist, and the very idea of a huge store brimming with toys was a completely foreign concept.
This is the only reason I got a Grapple when I was a kid. I didn't want Grappel! But the person who bought it for me really didn't see the difference between one car-that-turns-into-a-robot and another. This is also likely why many of us got GoBots rather than TF's as gifts.

But now that we who were born in the mid/late 70's and on are becoming parents, we grew up with a wide plethora of different toy options. The only parents of this generation who are totally ignorant of the differences between one toy and another are either willfully so, or are of the mind-set "I didn't have all this stuff growing up so why does my kid need it?".

QUOTE(Kalidor @ May 6 2012, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess I should just be happy that my parents weren't idiots and could comprehend the words I had written on my Christmas list or trusted me enough when they said "pick out the one you want" that I myself wasn't an idiot and wouldn't buy I toy I already owned.

This!

And now-a-days kids don't just have to write a list of the toys they want. These computer-age kids can make a list with actual pictures of the toys! So the only possible reason for the toy-buyer to get the wrong thing are either horrible inbreeding, or the ONE store they went to didn't have anything on the list and they didn't want to leave empty handed.

My point still stands. If Hasbro would put the DB's in the show, and make them cool; rather than just another bunch of non-show toys on the shelf, the kids will want them.



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#413 NICK TYRANNO

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:27 PM

My parents weren't stupid about things back then, and they ran around all sorts of places to get me stuff.

I'm just mystified that someone at the corporate level thinks kids won't want to have an army of robot dinosaurs.

#414 Fishbug

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:37 PM

Do kids even like dinosaurs anymore? They're at nowhere near the level of toy saturation that they were back in the 80's and 90's. EVERY toyline back in those days found a way to work dinosaurs into it. Now? Kids care more about their fake-dino Whatevermons and Bakumans.
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#415 Smitty

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:39 PM

QUOTE(Daytonus @ May 6 2012, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're acting as if parenting is on some evolutionary scale where each generation is better than the last at picking out their children's toys.

With today's nostalgia based toy lines it is. I look down a Wal-Mart toy section and I see Thundercats, Transformers, Marvel Heroes, and G.I. Joe just to name a few. Even for some one that is not as into toys as I am it's not hard to know who their kid wants when he says "I want Panthro".

I'm not a fan of voting on peoples posts. it just seems very passive aggressive to click 'down vote' and not add anything to the thread. and up votes are exactly the same. to my mind the whole point of a forum is discussion and being able to just easily agree or disagree takes the discussion out of the equation.


#416 NICK TYRANNO

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE(Fishbug @ May 6 2012, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do kids even like dinosaurs anymore? They're at nowhere near the level of toy saturation that they were back in the 80's and 90's. EVERY toyline back in those days found a way to work dinosaurs into it. Now? Kids care more about their fake-dino Whatevermons and Bakumans.


Oh they do. IF there was more saturation there would be even more dinosaur fans. There's this over brimming idea that they're ridiculous, I guess? I have no idea why dinosaurs have been backed off of, but kids do like em.

#417 Shadewing

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE(NICKSTART @ May 6 2012, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My parents weren't stupid about things back then, and they ran around all sorts of places to get me stuff.


My mom and Grandmom would go to great lenths to get me what I wanted. One of my mom's favorite stories is her trying to find the Ghostbuster Firehouse, becuase I had apparently told her "It's okay if you can't find it, Santa will bring me one!" which sent her into a big panic. She had all her co-workers even look for if one came in to tell her immediately. She did eventually find one. She may not have known what everything was, but if I told her I wanted something for birthday or christmas; she did her damnedest to get me it.

Parent's aren't totally ignorant, unless they just really don't care that much about their kids. Kids aren't stupid either. If a kid lets them know what they want, a parent will try to get it, they will reach out to friends and family members letting them know "hey this is what my child wants, could you help me find it?". I've seen this with every branch of my family (Not a small family by any means) and my friend's families as well growing up. Very few kids will get everything, but a smart attentive parent will know their kids know what they have and don't have and will pay attention to a list a child gives them or when they point out stuff in the store.

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#418 NICK TYRANNO

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:31 PM

Evidently the turtle van was a huge endeavor and I never knew until I was in high school the mad scramble that caused.

And you're right. Every kid won't get everything, but that doesn't mean their parent or caretaker didn't know what to look for.

#419 Fnu Aw

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:54 PM

It was so easy in the Beast Wars days when the toys were entirely different species. It was so easy to tell parents what to get. icon-fire.gif

#420 Daytonus

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:15 PM

I'm not saying that parents are either morons or horrible. But I think we're talking about different things. I'm leaning on the side of impulse buys, with the recognition that the only times my mom wanted to make SURE I got what I wanted was my birthday and maybe Christmas. That leaves 10 months of the year when it was nice if I got a toy, but be damned if I told my mom EXACTLY what I wanted. Maybe my background is just different, but any kid who is able to do so on a regular basis just sounds really entitled to me.

So I find all this stuff about "the parents don't care about their kids" or "they're inbreeding" to be horribly offensive. I have wonderful, loving, attentive parents who also gave half a hug what toys I wanted. I sure as hell don't remember asking for Scattershot or Twintwist or Runabout, but that's what I got. You guys are projecting what you would be like as parents (and I understand that some of you are even like that as parents, which is commendable), and that's understandable, but I'm looking at my parents and the random parents I meet at Target who are pretty clueless about toys and it just seems like a confirmation bias of being around a bunch of other die-hard fans to say that parents are getting better at picking out toys for their kids.



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