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@  Benbot : (25 August 2016 - 07:34 AM)

What?

@  MEDdMI : (25 August 2016 - 05:58 AM)

Aren't we the ones causing trouble for Kalidor?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.


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Furman taking questions on Facebook


23 replies to this topic

#1 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:33 AM


Just a heads up, the TRANSFORMERS facebook page is taking questions for Furman till tomarrow noon. They will be answered next week apparently.

Here's the link:
https://www.facebook.com/transformers


-ZacWilliam, they could use a few more intelligent/non-insulting questions from what I can see.
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#2 Walky

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:37 AM

Has anyone yet asked whether it's better to fight and die, or to live with the knowledge that you ran?

#3 CORVUS

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

Has Furman ever actually SEEN a vast, predatory bird?

Seriously though, I'd have to ponder a serious question.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#4 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Okay, there has to be somebody to ask him those things.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#5 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:45 AM

Can someone ask him to stop using the same two or three stories over and over again?

#6 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

QUOTE(Tm_Silverclaw @ Apr 19 2012, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can someone ask him to stop using the same two or three stories over and over again?


If they wanted to over generalize greatly and be kinda insulting to someone whose nice enough to take questions for the fandom, sure.


-ZacWilliam, doesn't agree with your statement, but even if you're firmly not a fan of someone's output doesn't mean it's ok to be rude.
Ever wonder about the speed of Turbofoxes?
Or the proverbial ailerons of Titanium Moosebots?

*Visit the one and only Cybertronic Bestiary.
For a mechazoologic tour of the mechanimals of Cybertron.


#7 Walky

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:22 PM

This is going to be really controversial for me to say, but let me just put this out there: Just because a person is perceived as having a lofty position does not mean you shouldn't treat them as if they were a human being.

It'd be one thing if we were talking about somebody who maybe punched everyone in the face. But this is just a writer, dude. Even the worst story about toy robots doesn't justify being you being a jerkwad to them.

#8 CORVUS

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:09 PM

This is Simon Furman we're talking about here, not John Byrne. So let's give the guy some respect here.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#9 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:10 PM

I was being somewhat sarcastic... but there would be a hell lot more comments like mine if it was Bay... and no one would say "Show him some respect."

I -still- can't fathom why Furman is so idolized.

#10 Shadewing

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

QUOTE(Tm_Silverclaw @ Apr 19 2012, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was being somewhat sarcastic... but there would be a hell lot more comments like mine if it was Bay... and no one would say "Show him some respect."

I -still- can't fathom why Furman is so idolized.


Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, bro.

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#11 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:11 AM

QUOTE(Tm_Silverclaw @ Apr 19 2012, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There would be a hell lot more comments like mine if it was Bay... and no one would say "Show him some respect."

I -still- can't fathom why Furman is so idolized.


1) I don't think "no-one" part is true. Yes there'd likely be a lot more rudeness because there are a lot more people a lot more upset about his output, but I'd like to believe there's a decent portion of the fandom mature enough not to be asses and jerks to him over it. Rudeness like that never does anything but make the fandom look terrible, and there are plenty of us who know that.

2) You can't fathom folks really enjoying something that isn't to your personal taste? The world must baffle you frequently then.


-ZacWilliam, I enjoy Furman. He's not a perfect writter, no. But he's told some really great G1 stories over the years and created, for all intents, a number of my favorite characters ever in those stories. The man's done some fun, classic stuff. And he's been a huge part of TF for years, you don't have to "idolize" him or be burried in nostalgia to be a fan.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 20 April 2012 - 05:17 AM.

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#12 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:21 AM

I didn't say I can't see why people enjoy him. As much as I think he is a bad writer.. I have enjoyed some of his stories.

However he -is- Idolized... which is different.

#13 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:35 AM

QUOTE(Tm_Silverclaw @ Apr 20 2012, 07:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However he -is- Idolized... which is different.


Example?


-ZacWilliam, I'd call him popular, sure, one of the most popular TF writers, but can't say I've ever seen anything suggesting "idolized".
Ever wonder about the speed of Turbofoxes?
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#14 CORVUS

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:10 AM

Agreed Zac. Idolized? Really? I'd go with well-regarded and respected, but idolized? Not in any significant fashion.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#15 Walky

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

Well, the night of the Hall of Fame this year he'll be literally idolized, but other than that...

#16 BB Shockwave

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

You should jump over to Transfans then. Haven't been there for years due to darn Websense blocking it, though. And for the record, I too used to idolize Furman. These days, we do have TF comic writers as good as him, but during DW and early IDW, that certainly wasn't so.

But yeah, liked that place. We got #1 Furmanite Fan badges! Those were the days. icon-fire.gif

QUOTE(^0^CORVUS^o^ @ Apr 19 2012, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has Furman ever actually SEEN a vast, predatory bird?

Seriously though, I'd have to ponder a serious question.


Surely, if he ever went to a zoo and checked out the eagles.

But if even he hasn't, then what chance do we have?! ... Of ever seeing one.

QUOTE(Tm_Silverclaw @ Apr 20 2012, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't say I can't see why people enjoy him. As much as I think he is a bad writer.. I have enjoyed some of his stories.

However he -is- Idolized... which is different.


Heretic! You shall be burned alive in front of my life-sized idol to appease the anger of the Great One!

Edited by BB Shockwave, 20 April 2012 - 09:36 AM.

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#17 CORVUS

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:40 AM

I dunno if an Eagle is trouly VAST enough. Perhaps one of those LOTR Eagles that carried Gandalf around icon-fire.gif

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#18 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:21 PM

For my own part, while I really enjoy Furman's stuff, I've always preferred Budiansky.

Edited by G.B.Blackrock, 20 April 2012 - 12:22 PM.


#19 Specimen-17

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Tm_Silverclaw @ Apr 20 2012, 03:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was being somewhat sarcastic... but there would be a hell lot more comments like mine if it was Bay... and no one would say "Show him some respect."

I -still- can't fathom why Furman is so idolized.

Disagreements over the use of the term idolized aside, here's a few reasons:

1) He's been around a long time
2) He wrote nearly all of the decent G1 fiction back in the day (although in fairness to the other writers, he also had a lot less constraints than most did)
3) He's always had a lot of genuine dedication to both the brand and the fans

And on a more personal level, I've been attending TF conventions around the world since 2003. Simon has been at the majority of them, and on each occasion I've never seen him be less than polite, respectful and patient toward everyone - even the fans that wouldn't look out of place in a Shortpacked strip - and for what he costs as a guest, it can't be said he's only in it for the money. Even after the convention's closed he'll be in the bar socialising with the attendees until the early hours. Regardless of his writing abilities (which admittedly can be hit or miss), he's one of the most down-to-earth, sincere and genuinely nice blokes I've ever met. For that alone he'll get more respect from me than a lot of people do.

#20 CORVUS

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

Superb post S-17. Thank you.

QUOTE(G.B.Blackrock @ Apr 20 2012, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For my own part, while I really enjoy Furman's stuff, I've always preferred Budiansky.

Budiansky deserves a hell of a lot more credit than he often gets.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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