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2.21: "Dragon Quest"


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#81 Scavgraphics

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:19 AM

QUOTE(Don_East @ Mar 19 2012, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Rezo @ Mar 19 2012, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Don_East @ Mar 18 2012, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Rezo @ Mar 18 2012, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for Celestia, presumably she doesn't know either?

But Spike's egg was part of an entrance exam for a school that she runs. Surely she must know something about it or at least the one in charge of the "hatch a dragon egg with magic" test.
Debatable. The egg might've been 'Rescued' like the Phoenixes' egg, which would substantially limit the information available about it.

But the test seemed to be a regular thing in the flashback.


Well A test is a regular thing, but not necessarily that test.

We've never seen other dragons around Canterlot, nor in our admittedly small views of the school, but we could conclude that they're pretty rare around there. The lack of books on dragons support that.

The egg test might have been used only for ponies with a high magical aptitude. Not all the unicorns at the school would be gifted in magic, per se. We see Lyra at the school, and from her cutie mark, it's assumed her gift is in music. She wouldn't have been given the opening egg test, for example.

I propose the thought that the entrance exams to the School is possibly a lot like the entrance to Starfleet Academy shown in "Coming of Age" (first season of TNG). The tests are never the same twice, and different candidates are given different tests at random or through planning.

#82 BB Shockwave

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:16 AM

Scavgraphics - I kinda like to think the dragon egg test was something like, having all young squires in Camelot have to try and pull Excalibur out of the stone. Just to see if they'd try, and how far they'd get, not really expecting them to succeed. The test put Twilight to her limits, and that was probably what the board wanted to see, how much magic potential she had in her! They were quite surprised when she succeeded.

Also, in this show, I fully expect that in some later episode, we will explore Spike's origin further. This season already dealt with him much more then the previous one.


Glad to see Nayuki and came to the same conclusion about Fluttershy's fear of dragons. (Great minds think alike? icon-hotrod.gif ) - And for the record, Dragonshy is my favourite MLP episode ever. I have also used it successfully - multiple times - to "convert" my friends to watching the series. icon-fire.gif

And to add, Fluttershy trampling RD showed just how afraid she was, as in that she did not even stop to apologize. But I loved the joke afterwards when she runs straight to the window - and instead of jumping through it as most would expect, she carefully opens it and hops outside. icon-fire.gif

QUOTE(Rezo @ Mar 19 2012, 01:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 18 2012, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, i don't really even mind the not fighting, but the fact that RD was shown as being afraid, they could have simply given Twilight couple lines to tell RD to run instead of fighting (get egg/spike to safety as justification maybe?), and make RD make a rude gesture at the dragons and leave, which would be more in character imo.
People - and ponies - are supposed to be afraid of Dragons, what with the whole giant, flying, breathing fire deal.


Exactly. I'd like to point out that in (A)D&D people treat even GOOD dragons - the ones that purposefully avoid killing sentient beings in general - with a good measure of fear and respect, because they are huge, powerful enough to level cities if they wanted to, and in general, being much older and alien in mindset. You just don't know how they will react to things that other beings would just consider a joke, and you don't want to take chances with a dragon... Like, whether it's impolite to ask about their age? icon-fire.gif (In D&D this is even more extreme with races that are utterly different from most humanoids and have powers that can basically kill you with a thought, like beholders or illithid. You don't want to accidently piss them off.)

QUOTE(Don_East @ Mar 19 2012, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
FiM isn't a documentary about dragons.

I was just saying that they introduced to new concept but don't even bother explaining it. Again, one line of dialogue could've explained it.

Twilight: "Once every 100 years the dragons migrate to far off mountains in order to rejuvenate & to train their young."

There, I just came up with that & it would also give a reason for Spike to go on his journey. For that matter, I really don't buy that Spike is the only dragon in Equestria that doesn't have wings.


You must have missed the part where later, Twilight cant't find any books on dragons.

If you still don't see the reason the episode did not explain dragons in more detail (hint: the ponies don't know jack about them), then I can't help you...

Edited by BB Shockwave, 20 March 2012 - 04:22 AM.


#83 Scavgraphics

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Mar 20 2012, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Scavgraphics - I kinda like to think the dragon egg test was something like, having all young squires in Camelot have to try and pull Excalibur out of the stone. Just to see if they'd try, and how far they'd get, not really expecting them to succeed. The test put Twilight to her limits, and that was probably what the board wanted to see, how much magic potential she had in her! They were quite surprised when she succeeded


Generally I agree, for the unicorns gifted in magic, whereas Lyra might have had a magical harp test or something. It was Xavier's school, not Hogwarts, after all.

#84 J4n1

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

Having rewatched the the scene where the trio show themselves (and then run away), i've come to some new conclusions.

One, doing the "fists up" pose is really, really awkward looking if you're a pony.
Two, while RD's face looks like she is afraid, otherwise she shows no signs of it, she flies in a pace that is, for her, quite leisurely (you know, slow), and right after the teleportation, she shows no signs of adrenaline, just mild confusion about the whole teleport thing, and maybe some concern for Twilight who's lying on the ground wheezing.

So from here on, my headcanon (fanon) is that Rainbow Dash was not afraid, but simply worried about others (if she was afraid, she could have easily outpaced others, even on foot), same could easily be said about Twilight Sparkle, not afraid for herself, but worried about Spike (and maybe the egg).

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Mar 20 2012, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Rezo @ Mar 19 2012, 01:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 18 2012, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, i don't really even mind the not fighting, but the fact that RD was shown as being afraid, they could have simply given Twilight couple lines to tell RD to run instead of fighting (get egg/spike to safety as justification maybe?), and make RD make a rude gesture at the dragons and leave, which would be more in character imo.
People - and ponies - are supposed to be afraid of Dragons, what with the whole giant, flying, breathing fire deal.


Exactly. I'd like to point out that in (A)D&D people treat even GOOD dragons - the ones that purposefully avoid killing sentient beings in general - with a good measure of fear and respect, because they are huge, powerful enough to level cities if they wanted to, and in general, being much older and alien in mindset. You just don't know how they will react to things that other beings would just consider a joke, and you don't want to take chances with a dragon... Like, whether it's impolite to ask about their age? icon-fire.gif (In D&D this is even more extreme with races that are utterly different from most humanoids and have powers that can basically kill you with a thought, like beholders or illithid. You don't want to accidently piss them off.)


Good point, and any regular pony (and Fluttershy), should be afraid of dragons, but these are not regular ponies, these are the ones that defeated Nightmare Moon, turned Discord into stone, dealth with the red dragon at the mountain, have braved Everfree forest on regular basis, are friends, or atleast acquinted with the twin goddess/princesses who rule the sun and the moon.

#85 Don_East

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:12 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Mar 20 2012, 03:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You must have missed the part where later, Twilight cant't find any books on dragons.

If you still don't see the reason the episode did not explain dragons in more detail (hint: the ponies don't know jack about them), then I can't help you...

Look, I'm just asking how come the writer explained where & when the dragons migrate in the episode but not why?

QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 20 2012, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One, doing the "fists up" pose is really, really awkward looking if you're a pony.

That's another complaint I've been meaning to address. In Season 2 we've gotten a bit of an increase on ponies in human poses but in my opinion this is the worst offender. They're ponies, four legged creatures. They should've fell over because their hind legs wouldn't support them. If this keeps up, season 3 will be as bad as My Little Pony Tales.
QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 20 2012, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Having rewatched the the scene where the trio show themselves (and then run away), I've come to some new conclusions.

So from here on, my headcanon (fanon) is that Rainbow Dash was not afraid, but simply worried about others (if she was afraid, she could have easily outpaced others, even on foot), same could easily be said about Twilight Sparkle, not afraid for herself, but worried about Spike (and maybe the egg).

Personally, I think Rainbow Dash developed a fear of dragons after Dragonshy. She just tries hides it for reputation's sake.

#86 Waspinator

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:30 AM

Rainbow is about the only pony who shouldn't be afraid of non-baby dragons, since she can use the Sonic Rainboom to either run away or give them a supersonic kick in the head.

#87 Don_East

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:36 AM

QUOTE(Waspinator @ Mar 21 2012, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rainbow is about the only pony who shouldn't be afraid of non-baby dragons, since she can use the Sonic Rainboom to either run away or give them a supersonic kick in the head.

She seemed pretty scared of Pinkie Pie's dragon impression at the end of Dragonshy.

"Why are you laughing? That awful dragon is back!"
(PINKIE PIE ROARS LIKE A DRAGON)
"Pinkie Pie, you scared me! Uh, I mean you... broke my concentration."

Not to mention Sonic Rainbooms only worked twice & we all know what happened the last time she kicked a dragon.

Edited by Don_East, 21 March 2012 - 12:38 AM.


#88 Pocket

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:45 AM

QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 20 2012, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One, doing the "fists up" pose is really, really awkward looking if you're a pony.

Agreed. They should have been either doing that ground-pawing thing like they did in "Friendship Is Magic Part 2" with the manticore, or if the writers really wanted them to make themselves look bigger, have them rear up the way a real horse would. What's sad is that it took me all of two seconds to think of that. I dunno who dropped the ball, the writer or the storyboarder, but it's the sort of thing anyone along the "assembly line" should be able to bring up with the director and get changed when they realize there's something wrong with it.
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#89 pao

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:36 AM

Or you could give them some credit and figure if it's that obvious, they probably tried it, sketched it a few different ways, and liked the symmetry of having all three in the same pose--note that's how RD is gonna end up, hanging on her wings.

The animator (or layout?) even used Dutch angle for the camera so they look more upright and less unbalanced, so it's not like they didn't notice it at all. Note they drop the angle at the end after the dragons laugh at them, and they look less imposing. Good work, there. I didn't see that the first time through.

#90 Scavgraphics

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:10 AM

Maybe they thought it'd be funny. Just a guess, mind you. (And Rainbow's been doing the fists up pose since the second episode)

#91 Adam G

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE(Dvandom @ Mar 19 2012, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think that was "another donkey," I think that was Cranky Doodle. It just puts this episode before CDD's arrival in Ponyville, during the last stages of his wandering the world in search of Matilda.

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What? No. I figure if anything his inclusion is evidence that this show was made after that episode. I know season 1 was a bit jumbled, but does anything besides people having problems dealing with minor plot holes really insinuate that there's anything wrong with season 2's normal airing order?

Anyway I loved the episode, and a lot of the complains seem ... well they seem like complete nonsense.

Edited by Adam, 21 March 2012 - 09:53 AM.


#92 Scavgraphics

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE(Adam @ Mar 21 2012, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What? No. I figure if anything his inclusion is evidence that this show was made after that episode.


So, you feel after he settled down, he started up a raft business?

I was assuming that Donkeys just wear toupee's

#93 Rezo

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:53 AM

QUOTE(Don_East @ Mar 21 2012, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Mar 20 2012, 03:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You must have missed the part where later, Twilight cant't find any books on dragons.

If you still don't see the reason the episode did not explain dragons in more detail (hint: the ponies don't know jack about them), then I can't help you...

Look, I'm just asking how come the writer explained where & when the dragons migrate in the episode but not why?
Where - Well, they were following the migration, it was sort of inevitable to stumble over it
When - It's sorta difficult to miss hundreds of dragons flying overhead
Not why - Stated explicitly by Twilight
QUOTE
QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 20 2012, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One, doing the "fists up" pose is really, really awkward looking if you're a pony.

That's another complaint I've been meaning to address. In Season 2 we've gotten a bit of an increase on ponies in human poses but in my opinion this is the worst offender. They're ponies, four legged creatures. They should've fell over because their hind legs wouldn't support them. If this keeps up, season 3 will be as bad as My Little Pony Tales.
Upright bare-knuckle fisticuff pose occured for the first time in... Episode two. Rainbow Dash, just before the Shadowbolts appear.

Not exactly a season two phenomenon.

This being said, I'm indeed a tad miffed about the use of human chairs as opposed to pillows, hay bales, or couches one can rest on all fours on in a few cases~

#94 Scavgraphics

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

QUOTE(Rezo @ Mar 21 2012, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This being said, I'm indeed a tad miffed about the use of human chairs as opposed to pillows, hay bales, or couches one can rest on all fours on in a few cases~


Lyra bought up all the furniture concessions in town.

#95 J4n1

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE(Rezo @ Mar 21 2012, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
QUOTE(J4n1 @ Mar 20 2012, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One, doing the "fists up" pose is really, really awkward looking if you're a pony.

That's another complaint I've been meaning to address. In Season 2 we've gotten a bit of an increase on ponies in human poses but in my opinion this is the worst offender. They're ponies, four legged creatures. They should've fell over because their hind legs wouldn't support them. If this keeps up, season 3 will be as bad as My Little Pony Tales.
Upright bare-knuckle fisticuff pose occured for the first time in... Episode two. Rainbow Dash, just before the Shadowbolts appear.

Not exactly a season two phenomenon.

This being said, I'm indeed a tad miffed about the use of human chairs as opposed to pillows, hay bales, or couches one can rest on all fours on in a few cases~


Now, just to be clear, i was not intending to complain about it, just throwing it up as a joke (and, let's face it, it looks awkward, and uncomfortable) before going to me second observation.

#96 Adam G

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:20 PM

QUOTE(Scavgraphics @ Mar 21 2012, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Adam @ Mar 21 2012, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What? No. I figure if anything his inclusion is evidence that this show was made after that episode.


So, you feel after he settled down, he started up a raft business?
No. I figure the mere inclusion of the character insinuated it took place after his initial episode in which he was introduced. The specifics aren't terribly important.

QUOTE
I was assuming that Donkeys just wear toupee's
I think his look is a little too distinct to say he's not the same character.

#97 Shoggoth

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

If anyone wants my opinion on things, too bad! You can't have them!

All things considered, they have had all kinds of humanized poses since the first season, and considering that there is a ton of evidence that they don't have the limited bone structure real equines do.(Real horses can't touch their hooves to the back of their heads, walk on their back legs, do cartwheels, hold things with their hooves and any number of other physical acts the Equestrian ponies have done. They are basically full of ball joints and who knows what else.)

As to the poses in the episode? the "hoof up" pose did look kinda awkward and forced.

This:


Looks far more awkward than the bit in episode 2 where Rainbow was doing her boxing moves. Also, after a dozen minutes of searching still can't find a picture of that.

I do say however that "humanized" poses brought us some awesome things like this:


#98 Matenshi

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

Are we really questioning anything in a series that brought us this?



#99 Sobana

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:17 PM

QUOTE(Shoggoth @ Mar 21 2012, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If anyone wants my opinion on things, too bad! You can't have them!

But i wants them! O_O
Spoiler

#100 Waspinator

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:23 PM

These ponies pretty much ignore physics in favor of cartoon/magic anatomy. See Fluttershy opening her bag with her wings, various times a cup has been held in a curled hoof, and the Cake twins being able to kick through metal.



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