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@  Dracula : (28 September 2016 - 02:10 PM)

You're clicking on threads and they're redirecting to that?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (28 September 2016 - 01:05 PM)

Why do forum pages keep forwarding me to this? http://www.allsparkt...2VjMDYxZTQxYmVl

@  Broadside : (28 September 2016 - 12:05 PM)

Anyone know what the caption on this page refers to? http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primon

@  RichardT1977 : (28 September 2016 - 09:53 AM)

After the season finale where RM Corp found a way to make thinking Bots, I was hoping for a continuation of the story where Paradim learned the hard way the downside of Bots that can say, "No."

@  Rycochet : (28 September 2016 - 09:40 AM)

I liked Phantom 2040 more.

@  Blues : (27 September 2016 - 05:08 PM)

I LOVE BOT MASTER SO MUCH. Too bad the toys sucked. I even own jungle fiver. I love him so much, but he can barely stand on his own.

@  TheMightyMol... : (27 September 2016 - 05:03 PM)

That's the 90s.

@  MEDdMI : (27 September 2016 - 04:50 PM)

Ninjzz? That's an unfortunate name.

@  Verity Carlo : (27 September 2016 - 04:44 PM)

Also I thought Fico Ossio was quite nice on Revolutions.

@  Rycochet : (27 September 2016 - 04:36 PM)

You know the planet is in a jam, a diabolical plan of only one man. Louis Leon Paradim an international punk, and his army of 3As are his piece of junk.

@  Telly : (27 September 2016 - 04:26 PM)

for the longest time i thought jungle fiver was called jungle fiBer

@  Bass X0 : (27 September 2016 - 04:21 PM)

Does anybody remember the cartoon Bots Master? I enjoyed the show but looking back on it, most of the robot designs were lame. The only cool designs were Jungle Fiver and Ninjzz although the toys were nothing compared to Transformers of course. I thought the main human characters were decent enough for a show about robots. 

@  Verity Carlo : (27 September 2016 - 02:43 PM)

Although this is odd to me, since I'm fairly sure they are/were good friends.

@  Verity Carlo : (27 September 2016 - 02:42 PM)

Yeah I stopped liking the guy when I found his Twitter.

@  zephyrX9 : (27 September 2016 - 12:35 PM)

https://twitter.com/DerrickJWyatt/status/779870732935233536 link

@  unluckiness : (27 September 2016 - 09:16 AM)

I cut out the middleman and assume that they're all jerks and/or shills.

@  Rycochet : (27 September 2016 - 07:15 AM)

Social media is the worst thing to happen to fandom, you can now see people whose work you like being jerks or shills on a daily basis, which is worse than a bad interview or two.

@  Robowang : (27 September 2016 - 07:12 AM)

Dirty Jerk Warts?

@  Broadside : (27 September 2016 - 07:05 AM)

Also, I guess he hates IDW Soundwave for not being an emotionless brick like the cartoon version? Man. Any enjoyment of Animated in future is going to be tainted for me by the fact that DJW is the worst kind of boring Geewunner.

@  Broadside : (27 September 2016 - 07:04 AM)

He also hates Action Man for no apparent reason other than "I don't know who this is and I don't care to find out". Which isn't fair, because Ian is the best character in IDW.

@  Jalaguy : (27 September 2016 - 06:47 AM)

DJW was mouthing off about the art for Revolution the other day too, doesn't entirely surprise.

@  Verity Carlo : (27 September 2016 - 05:11 AM)

Do you have a link, zephyr?

@  Cabooceratops : (27 September 2016 - 01:36 AM)

bweh!!

@  Cabooceratops : (27 September 2016 - 01:36 AM)

bweh bweh

@  zephyrX9 : (26 September 2016 - 10:11 PM)

Sipher's.

@  Telly : (26 September 2016 - 10:08 PM)

*has flashbacks of the "image wars"*

@  Touch My Thighs : (26 September 2016 - 09:30 PM)

Sakamoto or Sipher's art?

@  ShadowMan024 : (26 September 2016 - 08:17 PM)

Oof.

@  zephyrX9 : (26 September 2016 - 08:05 PM)

Sipher made a sarcastic remark about Sakamoto's skeeviness. Derrick called him an a**hole, and insulted his art, which was a low, unnecessary blow.

@  Touch My Thighs : (26 September 2016 - 07:43 PM)

What did Derrick do?

@  Pennpenn : (26 September 2016 - 07:42 PM)

That makes sense, thank you.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (26 September 2016 - 07:30 PM)

Derrick J. Wyatt?

@  Pennpenn : (26 September 2016 - 07:21 PM)

Djw?

@  zephyrX9 : (26 September 2016 - 05:45 PM)

wow, didn't expect to have to block djw on twitter

@  ▲ndrusi : (26 September 2016 - 02:48 PM)

Yeah, it was really sad that they didn't survive in any of the endings. Eaten by Unicron every time.

@  Bass X0 : (26 September 2016 - 12:17 PM)

I wish I could have seen Kick Axe live.

@  LBD "Nyt... : (26 September 2016 - 10:14 AM)

@TheMightyMollusk WWE Raw is on tonight. By the third hour, it'll probably feel the same, minus the actual physical trauma.

@  TheMightyMol... : (26 September 2016 - 09:51 AM)

I think I'd rather punch myself in the nuts.

@  Dracula : (26 September 2016 - 09:34 AM)

I think I'll watch Godzilla versus Gigan instead

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (26 September 2016 - 09:32 AM)

Hillary versus Trump tonight. Oh boy.

@  TheMightyMol... : (26 September 2016 - 06:53 AM)

I think I'm just too used to metal to not understand the lyrics.

@  ▲ndrusi : (26 September 2016 - 06:02 AM)

it's a vile interruption, chess the scripture way

@  Pennpenn : (26 September 2016 - 03:49 AM)

I've had versions where the issue doesn't come up (or at least doesn't come up in the part I notice the most), but the version that got remastered for Bluray and DVD releases have it.

@  Nevermore : (26 September 2016 - 02:05 AM)

I initially misheard "flying tools of torment" as "we're flyin' into some torment".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (26 September 2016 - 01:08 AM)

If it's a problem with all released versions, maybe the original audio source was itself damaged?

@  Pennpenn : (25 September 2016 - 09:30 PM)

I wish they'd relase a remastered version that fixed the audio and included at least had an option to have the text crawl rather than the credits at the start.

@  Telly : (25 September 2016 - 09:27 PM)

tryin to buy the movie from amazon for $20-ish. the price of it has been fluctuating like crazy. not a day has gone by that it hasnt dropped to one price and then gone back up a few hours later. never seen a price fluctuate so much

@  Pennpenn : (25 September 2016 - 07:57 PM)

Then again, a lot of versions of the movie had pretty bad sound quality, even the most recent blu-rays mess it up in places, so it's not as much our fault if we misheard stuff.

@  Arazyr : (25 September 2016 - 07:28 PM)

When I first heard it, half of it may as well have been in a foreign language, for all I could make out. (Of course, I can say that about most music...)

@  Pennpenn : (25 September 2016 - 07:14 PM)

I can't remember entirely, and I can't "hear" anything but the actual lyrics now, but I remember "I am born to hurt you, I'll break the boundless sky" as how my brain parsed the first words.


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Aligned Continuity Transformers Anatomy


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30 replies to this topic

#1 Razorsaw

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:48 PM

the last episode of Prime has led me to think about this, and I was wondering what others thought. From "Shadowzone", we know some parts of a Transformer are customizable, removable, or upgradable components, while "Operation: Bumblebee" shows us that T-Cogs and voiceboxes are essentially equivalent to organs and are not so easily replaceable. One can infer that Breakdown's eye is the same case.

Personally, I'd think that a transformers internals, housed in the torso and head at least, are where all the "organs" are. Arms, weapons, and anything that can be adapted by scanning a vehicle mode - while under the control systems of the transformation cog, naturally - are all removable and replaceable like Starscream and Skyquake's arm. Basically, they're compatible technology, but not "essential" to survival.

Naturally, I'd also assume the head is important, given what happened to Tailgate, and the torso itself is important due to Cliffjumper dying when he was impaled there.

Thoughts?

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

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#2 Phlis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 13 2012, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the last episode of Prime has led me to think about this, and I was wondering what others thought. From "Shadowzone", we know some parts of a Transformer are customizable, removable, or upgradable components, while "Operation: Bumblebee" shows us that T-Cogs and voiceboxes are essentially equivalent to organs and are not so easily replaceable. One can infer that Breakdown's eye is the same case.

Personally, I'd think that a transformers internals, housed in the torso and head at least, are where all the "organs" are. Arms, weapons, and anything that can be adapted by scanning a vehicle mode - while under the control systems of the transformation cog, naturally - are all removable and replaceable like Starscream and Skyquake's arm. Basically, they're compatible technology, but not "essential" to survival.

Naturally, I'd also assume the head is important, given what happened to Tailgate, and the torso itself is important due to Cliffjumper dying when he was impaled there.

Thoughts?


If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.

#3 Rosicrucian

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:57 PM

The crew in Prime seems to have limited resources. They've adapted what human technology they can, and Cybertronian technology is hard to come by.

But heck, even in G1 transformation cogs were something you couldn't just make another of easily. Metroplex's cog had to be manufactured on Cybertron and sent to Earth, not fabricated onsite.

#4 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.


No. The problem is you're trying to draw a direct corollary between human tech and transformers tech and there doesn't have to be one. An arm can be the equal to replacing a car's tire and a transformers eye or voicebox can still be an organ that is beyond their technology to recreate or reinstall.

We can do a heart transplant but we can't make a new heart. We can build hearing aids but not an artificial eye. We can't do a "stomach transplant". Livining entities are complex things. There's no necessary reason at all that making an eye should equal making an arm. One could be very simple, the other impossible, and that's logically fine.

My BIG BIG question raised by all this is how TFs are "Born" in Prime continuity? Where do they come from and how are they made to begin with. The show hasn't adressed this at all that I recall and I think it's a big deal in terms of understanding them as far as biology goes.


-ZacWilliam, Exodus brushes across it very briefly IIRC but it's hard to tell how much of that is in continuity with Prime...

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 13 March 2012 - 08:37 PM.

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#5 Walky

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:46 PM

TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

#6 Touch My Thighs

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

Transformers work like Strogg.

01110010 01101111 01110011 01100101 01100010 01110101 01100100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01101110 01100001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110011 01101100


#7 Somebody

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Mar 14 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

The thing about that scene that gets me is that Arcee didn't always have a motorcycle engine. When she came to Earth, she scanned a motorbike and reconstructed aspects of her technobiology to match human motorbikes, including an engine similar to the one Jack was studying. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that there's enough conscious involvement in the scanning process that she should have a pretty good understanding of how her own alt-mode is put together.

Now, asking her to explain how a spark or neural processor works, I can easily understand her not knowing THAT ("You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a human brain?). Or, taking another tack, if she was reconstructed by external technology - ala the bots on the G1 Ark rebuilt by Teletran-1/Auntie, or the fleshy-coat bots on the Axalon in BW, etc - rather than an internal scanner/reconstructor thing as the movie & Prime bots use, I could buy her not understanding a motorbike intimately.

Think of it as the difference between asking you to draw me a Joyce or Leslie without reference, and asking you to draw me a medical diagram of a retina without reference. The former you intimately know, just as Arcee scanned a bike very closely so she could reconstruct herself and be indistinguishable from it to human eyes. The latter, well, you use a retina all the time, but you don't need to know how it works in normal circumstances, just as Arcee doesn't need to know anything about her spark or brain as long as they keep on tickin'...

Edited by Somebody, 13 March 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#8 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:16 PM


Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."


#9 Razorsaw

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:23 PM

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. The process is automated and controlled entirely by the T-cog. Arcee doesn't have to think to reformat herself at all.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#10 Phlis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Mar 13 2012, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.


No. The problem is you're trying to draw a direct corollary between human tech and transformers tech and there doesn't have to be one. An arm can be the equal to replacing a car's tire and a transformers eye or voicebox can still be an organ that is beyond their technology to recreate or reinstall.

-ZacWilliam


I'm not really trying to draw a line, I really just don't think there will be an explanation past these things are biology and these other things are technology because we say so. And it will lead to problems along the lines of why can this get fixed but this can't?

I mean I get it, universal things, things shared by all transformers (eyes, voice, spark, T-Cog, w/e else they come up with) are probably meant to be biology. I also realize they probably don't have the resources to fix these things while on Earth. But at the same time, lets not short change their technology level. They have built instantaneous transport between two places in gate form, as well as galaxy spanning space ships. We (humans) are almost able to grow Hearts, it's a thing we will probably be doing in 10 years. It is very expensive but we have the tech to do it, and understanding of our own biology to do so. Transformers far surpass us. A Doctor, back to transformers, should know the intimate workings of every "organ" in the Transformer's body. A field medic like Ratchet would at least have enough knowledge to do repairs/replacement.


#11 Liege

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:51 PM

IIRC Didn't Brakedown say he chose not to replace his eye as a way to remember his failure or something to that effect in the episode after Operation Brakedown?
QUOTE(NightViper @ Aug 3 2013, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Escargon @ Aug 1 2013, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Liege, you're words really have had an effect on me. It made me relise I've shouldn't care about what others think of me, I should only care about what I think of myself.

Liege is a small dude with a lot of wisdom.

Well one of those descriptive words is accurate I suppose!

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#12 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not really trying to draw a line, I really just don't think there will be an explanation past these things are biology and these other things are technology because we say so. And it will lead to problems along the lines of why can this get fixed but this can't?


Why do you think that? I mean why would they need an explanation for why some parts of a being are easily fixable/replaceable and some are not? That's just the way living beings are. And why would this be in any way a problem in future stories?

I think you're imagining a problem that doesn't and will not exist.


-ZacWilliam, it will adjust to fit the needs of the story as it always has and should. Beast Wars was horribly all over the map on what constituted serious injury or not when ever it suited the plot or comic relief and no one cared. No one is likely to care here either if we someday find out you can replace a head in one episode but not a transappedix in another.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 13 March 2012 - 10:26 PM.

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#13 Axaday

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Mar 13 2012, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."


Everybody here is probably already aware of this, but this is an exceptionally good post.

#14 Starfield

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM

One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.

#15 Kalidor

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

Like our clothes right?

card-mindwipe.jpg


#16 mx-01 archon

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:43 AM

QUOTE(Starfield @ Mar 13 2012, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.


Remember Animated? "Electronic Paint"

#17 Destron D-69

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:11 AM

its likely something simple. If ratchet can't build it from scraps ... its biologically Cybertronian


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#18 Starfield

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE(Kalidor @ Mar 14 2012, 02:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like our clothes right?

Hey. Here are some naked aligned continuity Transformers. When they scanned vehicles, they changed colors.


QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Mar 14 2012, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Starfield @ Mar 13 2012, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.


Remember Animated? "Electronic Paint"

If I remember correctly, it sounded more like regular old paint in the Prime episode.

#19 Cybersnark

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Mar 13 2012, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We can do a heart transplant but we can't make a new heart.

Yes we can. In fact, Dick Cheney has one (and no pulse).
QUOTE
We can build hearing aids but not an artificial eye.

Getting there.

#20 Shockwave 75

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE(Somebody @ Mar 13 2012, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Mar 14 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

The thing about that scene that gets me is that Arcee didn't always have a motorcycle engine. When she came to Earth, she scanned a motorbike and reconstructed aspects of her technobiology to match human motorbikes, including an engine similar to the one Jack was studying. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that there's enough conscious involvement in the scanning process that she should have a pretty good understanding of how her own alt-mode is put together.

Uh, no.

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Mar 13 2012, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."

Yes! A perfect example is from the G1 episode "Make Tracks". When Raul open's Track's hood and is completely baffled by what he sees inside. It just makes him even more stupid that he just decided to cut a wire without knowing what it does.

This is also one of the reasons I really don't think that TF's would really have a livable interior, city-bots not withstanding. Why would they need one? The just have to look like a car, not actually be a car. Sufficiently tinted "windows" (cuz I doubt they're actually made of glass) and you can hide all your extraneous robot doo-dads and gee-gogs inside and no one would be the wiser. Hell, I doubt they'd even have functioning doors!
"Robots in disguise" to me means just that, that they're in disguise. Dressed up, if you will, as cars and such.

I can wear a Superman costume, but it doesn't actually make me Superman.

Edited by Shockwave 75, 14 March 2012 - 11:57 AM.



"The objective truths of the world are controversial only to people who are both under-informed and who like to argue." - Neil deGrasse Tyson