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@  wonko the sane? : (30 May 2016 - 07:00 PM)

I'm pretty sure cruze just offers the planets to xenu, he doesn't actaull eat them himself.

@  Foffy the Sheep : (30 May 2016 - 06:57 PM)

And they both eat planets.

@  wonko the sane? : (30 May 2016 - 06:56 PM)

well, it was one or the other. I might have been confused because they both have huge heads.

@  Foffy the Sheep : (30 May 2016 - 06:35 PM)

I've never heard that before. Are you sure you're not thinking of Tom Cruise?

@  wonko the sane? : (30 May 2016 - 06:32 PM)

I thought galactus was supposed to appear differently depending on which species is looking at him?

@  Foffy the Sheep : (30 May 2016 - 04:55 PM)

Galactus isn't goofy-looking. His hat is the grandest of all hats!

@  PlutoniumBoss : (30 May 2016 - 12:58 PM)

And we run into something like the Galactus Fashion Conundrum. Are YOU going to be the one to go up to his face and tell him he's goofy-looking?

@  Foffy the Sheep : (30 May 2016 - 12:32 PM)

Maybe Miles's villains think you're lame!

@  unluckiness : (30 May 2016 - 11:07 AM)

I don't mind Miles but his villains are kinda lame.

@  Bass X0 : (30 May 2016 - 09:29 AM)

I just thankful they didn't have a black Peter Parker.

@  tffan01 : (30 May 2016 - 09:09 AM)

I would have preferred Peter Parker. But If they really wanted to make a non-Peter Parker lead, they could have made Spider-Man 2099, at least it has a gimmick (futurism). While Miles, imo isn't that different from Peter Parker.

@  Locoman : (30 May 2016 - 08:52 AM)

That would be cool. Ultimate Universe kind of went off the rails toward the end, but I always liked Miles.

@  tffan01 : (30 May 2016 - 08:25 AM)

http://io9.gizmodo.com/report-the-new-animated-spider-man-movie-will-star-mil-1779201902

@  tffan01 : (30 May 2016 - 08:24 AM)

I heard new Spider-Man animated movie will feature Miles Morales.

@  unluckiness : (30 May 2016 - 03:43 AM)

A lot of mine have somehow gotten so floppy that floor polish doesn't help. May need superglue

@  Paladin : (29 May 2016 - 07:51 PM)

there remains an Omega Supreme-sized hole in my Animated collection that not even 3P wants to fill....

@  Nutjob R/T : (29 May 2016 - 07:23 PM)

Just pulled out the Animated box after a few years in storage. Giving it some time is the godhonest truth, these things are awesome

@  Touch My Thighs : (29 May 2016 - 07:12 PM)

http://swanh.net/ This is really impressive.

@  wonko the sane? : (29 May 2016 - 06:20 PM)

I keep having to say this to folks: fandoms are voluntary. Enjoy in any ratio or methodology that you choose.

@  Dracula : (29 May 2016 - 05:38 PM)

Ride the wave, dude. Put the toys away for a while...take 'em back out again later and you mind find your interest rekindled

@  Locoman : (29 May 2016 - 04:14 PM)

it happens to everyone. Sometimes interests are cyclical.

@  Patchouli Kn... : (29 May 2016 - 04:13 PM)

Well, for starters, it might be time to think of a new username...

@  tffan01 : (29 May 2016 - 04:09 PM)

I'm losing interest in TF. Help.

@  Patchouli Kn... : (29 May 2016 - 03:00 PM)

It means you're not very well-rounded.

@  Foffy the Sheep : (29 May 2016 - 02:46 PM)

What happens if you don't like pi?

@  Bass X0 : (29 May 2016 - 01:29 PM)

He who doesn't like pie are destined to become the contents of pie.

@  Foffy the Sheep : (29 May 2016 - 12:09 PM)

No you don't. You think you do, but you really don't.

@  Echowarrior : (29 May 2016 - 10:37 AM)

I like pie.

@  Pennpenn : (29 May 2016 - 05:18 AM)

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

@  Foffy the Sheep : (29 May 2016 - 05:11 AM)

We have always been at war with East Asia.

@  unluckiness : (29 May 2016 - 04:04 AM)

His big scene in the big Astrotrain battle for leadership was also great. Too bad Starscream suckerpunched him after he beat everybody else up

@  Pennpenn : (29 May 2016 - 01:00 AM)

Of course he has. I mean, remember when Trailbreaker had to pretend to be him in Masquerade?

@  zephyrX9 : (29 May 2016 - 12:47 AM)

offroad has always been there

@  Plokatron : (28 May 2016 - 11:18 PM)

Transfer Uplinks look cool but in the wrong hands could be OP. Hmmm Just a funny thought what if Mainframe from G1 had a TU? He could make about anything period. Also does anyone know if CatSCAN ever received a spark? His wiki article says he is a spark less build when he was created surly he has one now.

@  tffan01 : (28 May 2016 - 02:33 PM)

@beetleman, ok.

@  Touch My Thighs : (28 May 2016 - 05:06 AM)

https://www.facebook.com/Toonami/videos/1603190709971770/ Wow it's just like old times.

@  Bass X0 : (28 May 2016 - 12:29 AM)

bueller...?

@  Bass X0 : (28 May 2016 - 12:29 AM)

bueller?

@  beetleman : (27 May 2016 - 07:07 PM)

sorry i was searching for a member

@  tffan01 : (27 May 2016 - 06:54 PM)

?

@  beetleman : (27 May 2016 - 06:44 PM)

vbbjune

@  beetleman : (27 May 2016 - 06:43 PM)

vbbjune

@  Liege : (27 May 2016 - 05:12 PM)

As an UK expat, I have to say I miss the actual thrill of hunting in stores as frustrating as it was when distribution was bad. I feel spoiled for choice in America in comparison lol.

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 May 2016 - 04:48 PM)

And depending on where you live, even American stores

@  wonko the sane? : (27 May 2016 - 02:59 PM)

Or canadian stores, or australian stores, or german stores...

@  Bass X0 : (27 May 2016 - 02:14 PM)

at least you got the exercise. i ordered all of them online. there's no point in being a serious collector if someone is only going to rely on using UK stores.

@  Whirl Maximus : (27 May 2016 - 02:13 PM)

This day last year I walked five miles to Asda to collect all the Defensor components. I was a dumb kid.

@  wonko the sane? : (27 May 2016 - 12:47 PM)

It... can be...

@  Dracula : (27 May 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Is LSD something you drink...?

@  Plokatron : (27 May 2016 - 12:26 PM)

Someone drank a gallon of LSD.


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Aligned Continuity Transformers Anatomy


30 replies to this topic

#1 Razorsaw

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:48 PM

the last episode of Prime has led me to think about this, and I was wondering what others thought. From "Shadowzone", we know some parts of a Transformer are customizable, removable, or upgradable components, while "Operation: Bumblebee" shows us that T-Cogs and voiceboxes are essentially equivalent to organs and are not so easily replaceable. One can infer that Breakdown's eye is the same case.

Personally, I'd think that a transformers internals, housed in the torso and head at least, are where all the "organs" are. Arms, weapons, and anything that can be adapted by scanning a vehicle mode - while under the control systems of the transformation cog, naturally - are all removable and replaceable like Starscream and Skyquake's arm. Basically, they're compatible technology, but not "essential" to survival.

Naturally, I'd also assume the head is important, given what happened to Tailgate, and the torso itself is important due to Cliffjumper dying when he was impaled there.

Thoughts?

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#2 Phlis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 13 2012, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the last episode of Prime has led me to think about this, and I was wondering what others thought. From "Shadowzone", we know some parts of a Transformer are customizable, removable, or upgradable components, while "Operation: Bumblebee" shows us that T-Cogs and voiceboxes are essentially equivalent to organs and are not so easily replaceable. One can infer that Breakdown's eye is the same case.

Personally, I'd think that a transformers internals, housed in the torso and head at least, are where all the "organs" are. Arms, weapons, and anything that can be adapted by scanning a vehicle mode - while under the control systems of the transformation cog, naturally - are all removable and replaceable like Starscream and Skyquake's arm. Basically, they're compatible technology, but not "essential" to survival.

Naturally, I'd also assume the head is important, given what happened to Tailgate, and the torso itself is important due to Cliffjumper dying when he was impaled there.

Thoughts?


If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.

#3 Rosicrucian

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:57 PM

The crew in Prime seems to have limited resources. They've adapted what human technology they can, and Cybertronian technology is hard to come by.

But heck, even in G1 transformation cogs were something you couldn't just make another of easily. Metroplex's cog had to be manufactured on Cybertron and sent to Earth, not fabricated onsite.

#4 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.


No. The problem is you're trying to draw a direct corollary between human tech and transformers tech and there doesn't have to be one. An arm can be the equal to replacing a car's tire and a transformers eye or voicebox can still be an organ that is beyond their technology to recreate or reinstall.

We can do a heart transplant but we can't make a new heart. We can build hearing aids but not an artificial eye. We can't do a "stomach transplant". Livining entities are complex things. There's no necessary reason at all that making an eye should equal making an arm. One could be very simple, the other impossible, and that's logically fine.

My BIG BIG question raised by all this is how TFs are "Born" in Prime continuity? Where do they come from and how are they made to begin with. The show hasn't adressed this at all that I recall and I think it's a big deal in terms of understanding them as far as biology goes.


-ZacWilliam, Exodus brushes across it very briefly IIRC but it's hard to tell how much of that is in continuity with Prime...

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 13 March 2012 - 08:37 PM.

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#5 Walky

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:46 PM

TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

#6 Touch My Thighs

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

Transformers work like Strogg.

Like if you went to hell, and it was full of blood, and that blood was on fire, and it was raining blood, then maybe that would be enough blood! Eh… but probably not.


#7 Somebody

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Mar 14 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

The thing about that scene that gets me is that Arcee didn't always have a motorcycle engine. When she came to Earth, she scanned a motorbike and reconstructed aspects of her technobiology to match human motorbikes, including an engine similar to the one Jack was studying. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that there's enough conscious involvement in the scanning process that she should have a pretty good understanding of how her own alt-mode is put together.

Now, asking her to explain how a spark or neural processor works, I can easily understand her not knowing THAT ("You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a human brain?). Or, taking another tack, if she was reconstructed by external technology - ala the bots on the G1 Ark rebuilt by Teletran-1/Auntie, or the fleshy-coat bots on the Axalon in BW, etc - rather than an internal scanner/reconstructor thing as the movie & Prime bots use, I could buy her not understanding a motorbike intimately.

Think of it as the difference between asking you to draw me a Joyce or Leslie without reference, and asking you to draw me a medical diagram of a retina without reference. The former you intimately know, just as Arcee scanned a bike very closely so she could reconstruct herself and be indistinguishable from it to human eyes. The latter, well, you use a retina all the time, but you don't need to know how it works in normal circumstances, just as Arcee doesn't need to know anything about her spark or brain as long as they keep on tickin'...

Edited by Somebody, 13 March 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#8 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:16 PM


Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."


#9 Razorsaw

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:23 PM

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. The process is automated and controlled entirely by the T-cog. Arcee doesn't have to think to reformat herself at all.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#10 Phlis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Mar 13 2012, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.


No. The problem is you're trying to draw a direct corollary between human tech and transformers tech and there doesn't have to be one. An arm can be the equal to replacing a car's tire and a transformers eye or voicebox can still be an organ that is beyond their technology to recreate or reinstall.

-ZacWilliam


I'm not really trying to draw a line, I really just don't think there will be an explanation past these things are biology and these other things are technology because we say so. And it will lead to problems along the lines of why can this get fixed but this can't?

I mean I get it, universal things, things shared by all transformers (eyes, voice, spark, T-Cog, w/e else they come up with) are probably meant to be biology. I also realize they probably don't have the resources to fix these things while on Earth. But at the same time, lets not short change their technology level. They have built instantaneous transport between two places in gate form, as well as galaxy spanning space ships. We (humans) are almost able to grow Hearts, it's a thing we will probably be doing in 10 years. It is very expensive but we have the tech to do it, and understanding of our own biology to do so. Transformers far surpass us. A Doctor, back to transformers, should know the intimate workings of every "organ" in the Transformer's body. A field medic like Ratchet would at least have enough knowledge to do repairs/replacement.


#11 Liege

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:51 PM

IIRC Didn't Brakedown say he chose not to replace his eye as a way to remember his failure or something to that effect in the episode after Operation Brakedown?
QUOTE(NightViper @ Aug 3 2013, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Escargon @ Aug 1 2013, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Liege, you're words really have had an effect on me. It made me relise I've shouldn't care about what others think of me, I should only care about what I think of myself.

Liege is a small dude with a lot of wisdom.

Well one of those descriptive words is accurate I suppose!

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#12 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not really trying to draw a line, I really just don't think there will be an explanation past these things are biology and these other things are technology because we say so. And it will lead to problems along the lines of why can this get fixed but this can't?


Why do you think that? I mean why would they need an explanation for why some parts of a being are easily fixable/replaceable and some are not? That's just the way living beings are. And why would this be in any way a problem in future stories?

I think you're imagining a problem that doesn't and will not exist.


-ZacWilliam, it will adjust to fit the needs of the story as it always has and should. Beast Wars was horribly all over the map on what constituted serious injury or not when ever it suited the plot or comic relief and no one cared. No one is likely to care here either if we someday find out you can replace a head in one episode but not a transappedix in another.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 13 March 2012 - 10:26 PM.

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#13 Axaday

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Mar 13 2012, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."


Everybody here is probably already aware of this, but this is an exceptionally good post.

#14 Starfield

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM

One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.

#15 Kalidor

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

Like our clothes right?

card-mindwipe.jpg


#16 mx-01 archon

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:43 AM

QUOTE(Starfield @ Mar 13 2012, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.


Remember Animated? "Electronic Paint"

#17 Destron D-69

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:11 AM

its likely something simple. If ratchet can't build it from scraps ... its biologically Cybertronian


Would like to see Onslaught before the Titan Masters.

#18 Starfield

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE(Kalidor @ Mar 14 2012, 02:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like our clothes right?

Hey. Here are some naked aligned continuity Transformers. When they scanned vehicles, they changed colors.


QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Mar 14 2012, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Starfield @ Mar 13 2012, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.


Remember Animated? "Electronic Paint"

If I remember correctly, it sounded more like regular old paint in the Prime episode.

#19 Cybersnark

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Mar 13 2012, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We can do a heart transplant but we can't make a new heart.

Yes we can. In fact, Dick Cheney has one (and no pulse).
QUOTE
We can build hearing aids but not an artificial eye.

Getting there.

#20 Shockwave 75

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE(Somebody @ Mar 13 2012, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Mar 14 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

The thing about that scene that gets me is that Arcee didn't always have a motorcycle engine. When she came to Earth, she scanned a motorbike and reconstructed aspects of her technobiology to match human motorbikes, including an engine similar to the one Jack was studying. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that there's enough conscious involvement in the scanning process that she should have a pretty good understanding of how her own alt-mode is put together.

Uh, no.

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Mar 13 2012, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."

Yes! A perfect example is from the G1 episode "Make Tracks". When Raul open's Track's hood and is completely baffled by what he sees inside. It just makes him even more stupid that he just decided to cut a wire without knowing what it does.

This is also one of the reasons I really don't think that TF's would really have a livable interior, city-bots not withstanding. Why would they need one? The just have to look like a car, not actually be a car. Sufficiently tinted "windows" (cuz I doubt they're actually made of glass) and you can hide all your extraneous robot doo-dads and gee-gogs inside and no one would be the wiser. Hell, I doubt they'd even have functioning doors!
"Robots in disguise" to me means just that, that they're in disguise. Dressed up, if you will, as cars and such.

I can wear a Superman costume, but it doesn't actually make me Superman.

Edited by Shockwave 75, 14 March 2012 - 11:57 AM.



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