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Episode 29


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#21 Kalidor

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:44 AM

I don't think you can honestly speculate that there will be no after effects of this story. Even still, it was a great tale. Remember when you could read a story arc in a comic book and it would conclude and you'd get a new arc? Sure, there'd be stuff that got back to normal, but there were still lasting consequences. Next arc is about Bumblebee and Mech and that looks neat.

But the point is, you don't know the effect this will have on Prime and whether or not he'll have zero change due to being Orion. And regardless of whether he remembers it, he uncovered data for Megatron that will most definitely play a role in the future.

#22 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE(Kalidor @ Mar 3 2012, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think you can honestly speculate that there will be no after effects of this story. Even still, it was a great tale. Remember when you could read a story arc in a comic book and it would conclude and you'd get a new arc? Sure, there'd be stuff that got back to normal, but there were still lasting consequences. Next arc is about Bumblebee and Mech and that looks neat.


The thing is, and what pisses me off so much, this was a real opportunity to give Optimus a seriously needed chance to become a likable character instead of an immense bore. And at the end of the day, we took the likable character... and made him become the Immense Bore again.

QUOTE
But the point is, you don't know the effect this will have on Prime and whether or not he'll have zero change due to being Orion. And regardless of whether he remembers it, he uncovered data for Megatron that will most definitely play a role in the future.


He didn't remember at all, and that makes it even MORE frustrating. Because now he doesn't even get to learn anything from BEING Orion. They managed to even screw THAT up. Total character development for Prime: ZERO.

As for the data, mark my words, they're entirely going to be doing the same thing as they did with "HEY THERE'S A BLIP ON THE SCANNERS" last season. This just gives them (barely) better justification. Project Iacon will be used for NOTHING important, I guarantee it.

#23 Rhapsody

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:51 AM

QUOTE(Kalidor @ Mar 4 2012, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think you can honestly speculate that there will be no after effects of this story. Even still, it was a great tale. Remember when you could read a story arc in a comic book and it would conclude and you'd get a new arc? Sure, there'd be stuff that got back to normal, but there were still lasting consequences. Next arc is about Bumblebee and Mech and that looks neat.

But the point is, you don't know the effect this will have on Prime and whether or not he'll have zero change due to being Orion. And regardless of whether he remembers it, he uncovered data for Megatron that will most definitely play a role in the future.


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#24 Razorsaw

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:54 AM

Again, I think an Optimus Prime whose forced to distance himself from others emotionally is INTERESTING.

Orion Pax was a fun diversion, but I didn't want him to become the status quo.

But then, in general, I think rewriting a character into a completely different person as if you were flipping a switch is a pretty cheap way to do things. I knew this whole thing would be temporary.

EDIT:

QUOTE
He didn't remember at all, and that makes it even MORE frustrating. Because now he doesn't even get to learn anything from BEING Orion. They managed to even screw THAT up. Total character development for Prime: ZERO.


Yannow, having him remember his time as Orion would develop him in the opposite direction of what you want.

"I was incredibly naive and deceived by our greatest enemy, putting everyone in grave danger. Better clam up even more so nothing similar to that happens ever again."

Edited by Razorsaw, 04 March 2012 - 01:56 AM.


#25 Omgiamonfire

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:55 AM

QUOTE(Master Fwiffo @ Mar 4 2012, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing is, and what pisses me off so much, this was a real opportunity to give Optimus a seriously needed chance to become a likable character instead of an immense bore. And at the end of the day, we took the likable character... and made him become the Immense Bore again.

Ok, we only had like a mintue with the restored Prime before the episode ended. How the hell can you predict he's going to be the same character just based on that?

QUOTE
Project Iacon will be used for NOTHING important, I guarantee it.

I'm going to laugh my ass off when it does.
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#26 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:55 AM

Seriously, this is just as bad as the crap Energon pulled.

"Oh, lets have Demolishor be conflicted and finally kill himself saving Megatron and then... bring him back and have him be Megatron's loyal munky for the rest of the season."

"Oh, lets have Starscream be a tortured ghost, hint at his relationship with Alexis bringing him back, and then... have him get mind wiped and be Megatrons bitch for the rest of the season"

"Oh, lets have Wingsaber have a rivalry with Shockwave, and spend all his time desperately trying to avenge his friends murder, and have him finally catch Shockwave, and then... have Shockwave escape and never mention their rivalry again."

"Oh, lets have Inferno get tortured to near death then driven insane by Megatrons dark energy, then finally commit suicide to free himself, and then... bring himself back and have him do nothing for the rest of the season."

"Oh, lets have Optimus Prime lose his memories, then become a Decepticon and re-explore his old friendship with Megatron, and then... have him suddenly get his memories back and not even remember he was gone."

Go on, tell me that last one isn't exactly the same amount of terrible.

#27 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

QUOTE(Omgiamonfire @ Mar 3 2012, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Master Fwiffo @ Mar 4 2012, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing is, and what pisses me off so much, this was a real opportunity to give Optimus a seriously needed chance to become a likable character instead of an immense bore. And at the end of the day, we took the likable character... and made him become the Immense Bore again.

Ok, we only had like a mintue with the restored Prime before the episode ended. How the hell can you predict he's going to be the same character just based on that?


By the fact they flat out stated that all his time as Orion Pax didn't matter and he remembered nothing?

QUOTE
QUOTE
Project Iacon will be used for NOTHING important, I guarantee it.

I'm going to laugh my ass off when it does.


If 'Project Iacon' leads to anything more than random macguffins for single episode plots that can be forgotten as soon as the episode ends, I will eat my friggen Autobot Symbol Hat.

#28 Razorsaw

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:59 AM

In exploring his old friendship with Megatron, he was lied to, and then when he discovered the truth he was locked in a room and then beaten when he got uppity.

What was remotely positive about that experience?

If anything, this arc has proven why he needs to be Optimus, not Orion.

#29 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:03 AM

QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 3 2012, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In exploring his old friendship with Megatron, he was lied to, and then when he discovered the truth he was locked in a room and then beaten when he got uppity.

What was remotely positive about that experience?

If anything, this arc has proven why he needs to be Optimus, not Orion.


Take that scared Orion Pax guy, throw him into leadership of the Autobots, where everyone looks up to him and remembers who he was, but he doesn't know - to his eyes, this 'Optimus Prime' is a legend he's never ever heard of. And he has to become that hero.

That is what we call an Interesting Storyline with a promise of Character Development. These are good things.

You know, even 'Optimus is forced to be more stoic because of his shame about the Orion Pax incident' is a LOT MORE INTERESTING than the Boring Ass Optimus Prime that has beens Prime unfortunate staple.

#30 Kalidor

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:07 AM

Comparing this show to Energon?

Are you just going out of your way to diminish your credibility on the subject?

#31 Razorsaw

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:10 AM

I thought Optimus was hella interesting in the last four episodes of the season, and it wouldn't have been nearly so without his portrayal in previous episodes.

Again, "flipping a switch and now he's a completely different person!" is cheap. It shows you're not willing to work with the tools you're given. If characters are so disposable you can turn them into other people, then that aspersion is gonna loom over what they become. This Optimus HAS potential, and I don't want it wasted.

The fact is, everyone was certain we'd never get anything out of Optimus that was quite like what we got in the last four episodes this time during season 1. and look how accurate that turned out to be.

Nothing is nearly as certain as you make it out to be.

#32 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:10 AM

QUOTE(Kalidor @ Mar 3 2012, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Comparing this show to Energon?

Are you just going out of your way to diminish your credibility on the subject?


Don't get me wrong, the worst episode of Prime is better than the entirity of Energon in every department.


Except one. Great plot ideas that had the friggen ball dropped right out from under them. In that department, Prime's running neck and neck.

Go on and tell me that this Optimus Prime Memory plotline doesn't belong right up there with Energons wonderful successes. Be honest. I dare you.

#33 Boomhauer

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:11 AM

QUOTE(Master Fwiffo @ Mar 4 2012, 02:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 3 2012, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In exploring his old friendship with Megatron, he was lied to, and then when he discovered the truth he was locked in a room and then beaten when he got uppity.

What was remotely positive about that experience?

If anything, this arc has proven why he needs to be Optimus, not Orion.


Take that scared Orion Pax guy, throw him into leadership of the Autobots, where everyone looks up to him and remembers who he was, but he doesn't know - to his eyes, this 'Optimus Prime' is a legend he's never ever heard of. And he has to become that hero.

That is what we call an Interesting Storyline with a promise of Character Development. These are good things.

You know, even 'Optimus is forced to be more stoic because of his shame about the Orion Pax incident' is a LOT MORE INTERESTING than the Boring Ass Optimus Prime that has beens Prime unfortunate staple.


Do you promise you wont say "thank you prime you're truly forgiven" the next time an episode you like happens again or will the Electrofwiff circle of life go on? Because that happened about 4 times last season.

Edited by TheOptimusPrime, 04 March 2012 - 02:12 AM.


#34 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:17 AM

QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 3 2012, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought Optimus was hella interesting in the last four episodes of the season, and it wouldn't have been nearly so without his portrayal in previous episodes.


He was only interesting in the one episode where he flipped out and decided Megatron had to die. He was standard Prime boring the rest of the time.

QUOTE
Again, "flipping a switch and now he's a completely different person!" is cheap. It shows you're not willing to work with the tools you're given. If characters are so disposable you can turn them into other people, then that aspersion is gonna loom over what they become. This Optimus HAS potential, and I don't want it wasted.


Here's the thing, having him lose his memories and try to rediscover his Primeness actually MAKES the boring, stoic persoanlity interesting. It allows you to actually explore what made him that way, it allows you to explore the Legend of Optimus Prime, and it lets you explore what the title and poistion of Prime Is and Means. This isn't 'different person' flipping. This is going back to what made Optimus Prime in the first place, and giving it a chance to develop again so you can see how he got there, and walk that journey with him. The best they could possibly do now is flashbacks, and those can only be, at best, a few brief snapshots (if we get that, which I doubt we will).

Seriously, I want the same thing you do. But your path can only 'tell' about Optimus. Having try to relearn the position of Prime 'shows' us. And that is so much better.

And, in addition, having Prime relearn himself also allows for interesting character conflicts and developments among the Autobots and humans.

QUOTE
The fact is, everyone was certain we'd never get anything out of Optimus that was quite like what we got in the last four episodes this time during season 1. and look how accurate that turned out to be.

Nothing is nearly as certain as you make it out to be.


I would LOVE to be wrong. But so far Prime's crew has kept promising great storyarcs, and then not delivering on it. I am very disappointed.

#35 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:19 AM

QUOTE(TheOptimusPrime @ Mar 3 2012, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Master Fwiffo @ Mar 4 2012, 02:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 3 2012, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In exploring his old friendship with Megatron, he was lied to, and then when he discovered the truth he was locked in a room and then beaten when he got uppity.

What was remotely positive about that experience?

If anything, this arc has proven why he needs to be Optimus, not Orion.


Take that scared Orion Pax guy, throw him into leadership of the Autobots, where everyone looks up to him and remembers who he was, but he doesn't know - to his eyes, this 'Optimus Prime' is a legend he's never ever heard of. And he has to become that hero.

That is what we call an Interesting Storyline with a promise of Character Development. These are good things.

You know, even 'Optimus is forced to be more stoic because of his shame about the Orion Pax incident' is a LOT MORE INTERESTING than the Boring Ass Optimus Prime that has beens Prime unfortunate staple.


Do you promise you wont say "thank you prime you're truly forgiven" the next time an episode you like happens again or will the Electrofwiff circle of life go on? Because that happened about 4 times last season.


I forgave the first season of Prime because of One Shall Fall.

I don't forgive it for screwing up the best thing that should have happened to Prime. This mistake, I am sure, will be every bit as bad as their mistake of killing Skyquake (thus doing irrepperable harm to first half of Season 1).

#36 Pennpenn

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:23 AM

I am slightly disappointed but not suprised that Optimus went completely back to normal and we're apparently back to Transformers: Scavenger Hunt... Well, still giving them the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season, so we'll see.

Edit: Hey, does this mean the Decepticons have a functional space-bridge now? I mean, there's no evidence the Autobots did anything to it before they left. Hopefully the writers don't forget about it...

Edited by Pennpenn, 04 March 2012 - 02:29 AM.


#37 Razorsaw

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:30 AM

No, it is flipping the switch.

One point in the story, he's Optimus Prime. The next minute, he's Orion Pax.

The one state cannot exist without the other.

You cannot have one without the other.

You can walk his journey, but it's not Optimus Prime's journey. It's Orion Pax's journey. Optimus has been discarded in the same way that Irontread discarded Demolishor/Ironhide.

#38 Spectre

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:57 AM

Peter Cullen as Orion Pax really reminded me a lot of G1 Optimus Prime.

I wish we got more of that. I can't imagine anybody seeing Prime as a father figure these days.

Well, yes I can. But it's the kind of emotionally distant father that causes one to look elsewhere for a father figure anyway.

#39 Magnusblitz

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:01 AM

I'm gonna be honest - I had no real interest in watching Prime until I saw the Season 2 teaser with Prime getting the Decepticon symbol etched on. I did a bit of reading and decided to take the plunge and watch it all. Season 1 had its moments but I was really hoping to get the Beast Wars treatment where we move away from the episodic format and towards an over-arching plot. We started getting at at the end of Season 1 but that's gone now. So, really disappointed by the Magic Reset Button. I'll probably keep watching, but definitely a bit more tepid interest now.

#40 Razorsaw

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:04 AM

Man, Beast Wars could have been so interesting and given us a real over-arching plot if they hadn't had Primal come back from the dead good as new. It's like they hit a reset button.



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