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@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.


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I Never Want To See a Bumblebee Again As Long As I Live


683 replies to this topic

#1 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:50 AM

So, I took a stroll today down to Toys R Us and Target. Hey, they had Prime toys out!

Want to know what they had between the two stores?

15 BUMBLEBEES and Two Cliffjumpers.

And, BTW, they're sitting next to DotM Bumblebee's in both stores.

This is what is known as a 'bad start' to a toyline.

So I take a glance over at Robot Kingdom where there's some more distribution lists. In case you don't know what's coming.

http://robotkingdom....i...=91&lang=us

Wave 1:
3 Bumblebees, 2 Cliffjumper and Wheeljacks, 1 Soundwave

Wave 2:
3 MORE BUMBLEBEES (and 1 of Soundwave, Wheeljack, Cliffjumper, Arcee and Ratchet).

Wow that's awful, I wonder what Wave 3-

ANOTHER GODDAMNED BUMBLEBEE, 2 Hot Shots (WHO IS A BUMBLEBEE REPAINT), 2 Knockouts, 1 Ratchet, Arcee and... 1 Vehicon.

So, just to be clear, in the first three waves, there are 7 BUMBLEBEES AND 2 BUMBLEBEE REPAINTS = with 3 Wheeljack/Cliffjumpers, and 2 of everything else. Except the Vehicon.

That's right, they shortpacked the first natural troop builder we've gotten years.


In short, WHAT THE HELL IS WITH HASBRO AND BUMBLEBEE? I know the theory is that Kids Want Bumblebee's, but I think DotM proved the Bumblebee craze is over - or at least lessoned. Does anything that's happened in the last couple of years justify 7 Bumblebees and 2 Bumblebee repaints (not to mention a Leader class coming later) in the first 3 waves? They're ALREADY shelfwarming!

So who here is dreading another year of straight Bumblebee's clogging shelves?

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#2 Razorsaw

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:55 AM

Retailers Determine Case Assortments.

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#3 ShinRa Inc

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:55 AM

As I've said elsewhere, my TRU is already two full pegs of about 20 Prime Bumblebees, one peg of Legion Bumblebees. Next to DOTM Shelfwarmers.

And then Walmart had 4 Bumblebees, a Cliffjumper, and two Voyager Primes.

Yeah, it's gotten old already.

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#4 Darkstream

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:55 AM

im buying takara mostly so mostly i dont care

#5 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:57 AM

QUOTE(ShinRa Inc @ Mar 1 2012, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I've said elsewhere, my TRU is already two full pegs of about 20 Prime Bumblebees, one peg of Legion Bumblebees. Next to DOTM Shelfwarmers.

And then Walmart had 4 Bumblebees, a Cliffjumper, and two Voyager Primes.

Yeah, it's gotten old already.


Who wants to take a bet on that we're not going to get any TF Prime toys past wave, say, 4? Maybe 5?

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#6 Spark

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:09 AM

QUOTE(Master Fwiffo @ Mar 2 2012, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(ShinRa Inc @ Mar 1 2012, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I've said elsewhere, my TRU is already two full pegs of about 20 Prime Bumblebees, one peg of Legion Bumblebees. Next to DOTM Shelfwarmers.

And then Walmart had 4 Bumblebees, a Cliffjumper, and two Voyager Primes.

Yeah, it's gotten old already.


Who wants to take a bet on that we're not going to get any TF Prime toys past wave, say, 4? Maybe 5?

Five waves is probably about right. At which time Prime Bumblebees will still be clogging the shelves. This discussion kind of already happened two weeks ago in regards to market oversaturation and stagnation. I think it was in the First Edition thread? Retailers consider Bumblebee and Prime to be the Superman/Batman/random current movie superhero and always want those two on the shelves in some form. It sucks. Hard.
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#7 Sprocket

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:34 AM

It's kind of amazing how hard it is to collect a robot cast the same size as Beast Wars' first season.
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#8 The Doctor Who

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:52 AM

This is the point where I break out that picture of all the Bumblebees I own icon-fire.gif

It's the same way over here. The stores started carrying Prime figures and guess what mute, yellow bot is clogging up the shelves already? Yes! It's the Bumblejerk himself.

You would think the retailers would have caught on by now... I mean, I'm sure they like selling their toys, right? So, if they determine case assortments, then why do they keep doing the same thing that left them with clogged shelves the last time?

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#9 Ghost Robot

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:56 AM

I'm with you, Fwiff. I actually overpaid for PRID Megatron when I was at TRU last week because I was so sick of finding nothing except Bumblebees (they had six on the shelves, meaning they sold through the entirety of two cases, EXCEPT for Bee).

Now that HTS has removed all PRID deluxe listings from their site - sans BB, of course - I'm pretty much done. I'm throwing in the towel. Not being able to buy the figures I want at retail is one thing but when I basically have no options online (at least no options that don't include buying one or more Bumblebees) then this hobby starts getting to the point of being too frustrating to put up with. Throw in all the canceled figures we've failed to get recently, an entire subline (movie trilogy) that's exclusive to a foreign market (necessitating higher prices if I want to get any of those figures), and rising personal expenses and I just can't be bothered anymore.

Edited by Ghost Robot, 02 March 2012 - 01:57 AM.


#10 tec

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:07 AM

Remember back in the day when for a 7 year stretch there where exactly 4 BBs ever
Or the Beast-RiD era when there where no Batman/Superman type character

Im sick of BB not haveing a voice the jokes old already BB is not R2-D2


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#11 Rosicrucian

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:26 AM

QUOTE(tec @ Mar 2 2012, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or the Beast-RiD era when there where no Batman/Superman type character
Seven Optimus Primal toys. Six Beast Wars Megatron toys. Six Cheetor toys. You were saying?

#12 tec

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:57 AM

yes but never over satration like with BB or Tuner Mudflap

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#13 M Sipher

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:40 AM

Yeah, because the line was nowhere near as successful then as it is now.


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#14 Megatoron

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:01 AM

Could Hasbro be doing this intentionally to accumulate public animosity toward Bee in order to justify his grusome termination some point down the road, as oppose to the public outrage triggered by the death of Optimus Prime back in 1986?

#15 gargunkle

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:07 AM

I'm trying to figure out when the overBeeing started. Movie 1? Movie 2? I don't really remember it being bad at all with movie 1. Then with movie 2 we had something like this but with the twins.

Something's so out of whack.
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#16 Betty Nor

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:44 AM

I'm having a hard time trying discern which of you are being sarcastic/snarky and which are being dead serious/ranting.

I'm throwing my lot in with this whole thread being ridiculous.

Check out my eBay sales.  Gotta pare down my massive collection into something more manageable.

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#17 Gryllid

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:15 AM

QUOTE(Megatoron @ Mar 2 2012, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Could Hasbro be doing this intentionally to accumulate public animosity toward Bee in order to justify his grusome termination some point down the road, as oppose to the public outrage triggered by the death of Optimus Prime back in 1986?


Uh...probably not.

I love the idea of Hasbro intentionally making truckloads of toys that won't sell, just so people won't complain about something that would happen in a cartoon, though.

#18 TSM-in-N.Y.

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:34 AM

Not only don't retailers determine case assortments they ("they" = pretty much any brick & mortar operation) don't even do their (re)orders based on specific cases.

TRU/WalMart/Target etc. says we need more TFs: Prime dlxs./Avengers movie 3 3/4" figs./ G.I. Joe movie 2 Bravo class vehicles and so on and so forth and Hasbro sends whatever the fornicate they feel like.

They can pull off this little stunt b/c the big box retailers don't give 1/69th the thought into these toys that the collectors do.

The flipside of this coin is that the etailers make out like bandits b/c they sell specific figs and cases that Hasbro has to deliver.

EE sells me case "Y" of Hasbro's Star Wars Vintage collection figure and they (they = EE) have to deliver that specific case they advertise and in turn I ordered or they don't get my money. Hasbro has to deliver to the etailers exactly what the etailers order.

Hasbro can't just toss case after case of wave 1 of line "X" to the etailers b/c the etailers won't take them. WalMart/TRU/etc. they don't give an excrement.

I honestly don't know if, after all this time some of you who have been collectors and/or in the fandom for so many years, that you folks haven't picked up on this on purpose and think it's funny to make ignorant posts about how the sky is falling or if you are being willfully oblivious.

It's not some great conspiracy (over produce Bumblebee figs. so Hasbro can kill off the character? Are you serious?) Hasbro and the retailers/etailers are interested in only ONE thing. PROFIT!!!11one

Could Hasbro make even more money with better case ratios? Almost definetly. But it seems that everyone is satisfied with the status quo as far as the profit side of things are concerned that things don't look to be changing. At least in the near future. :-/

Perhaps all of the items that from various Hasbro lines that have either been cancelled or turned into Asian market/Canadian market/Ross and/or other discount store "exclusives" are the result of the mistakes that both Hasbro and the retailers have continually made over the last several years.


Your friend, TSM-in-N.Y.


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#19 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:51 AM

I want a Bumblebee for my backyard like Michael Bay has.

And a backyard to put it in.

But beyond that, I'm good. I have Classics, Stealth Movie, Animated, Legends, Movie Legends (old version), and a knock-off of Classic Pretender from G1. I guess I could do with a Prime version, but that's just it: a Prime version...

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#20 NightViper

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:55 AM

QUOTE(TSM-in-N.Y. @ Mar 2 2012, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not only don't retailers determine case assortments they ("they" = pretty much any brick & mortar operation) don't even do their (re)orders based on specific cases.

TRU/WalMart/Target etc. says we need more TFs: Prime dlxs./Avengers movie 3 3/4" figs./ G.I. Joe movie 2 Bravo class vehicles and so on and so forth and Hasbro sends whatever the fornicate they feel like.

They can pull off this little stunt b/c the big box retailers don't give 1/69th the thought into these toys that the collectors do.

The flipside of this coin is that the etailers make out like bandits b/c they sell specific figs and cases that Hasbro has to deliver.

EE sells me case "Y" of Hasbro's Star Wars Vintage collection figure and they (they = EE) have to deliver that specific case they advertise and in turn I ordered or they don't get my money. Hasbro has to deliver to the etailers exactly what the etailers order.

Hasbro can't just toss case after case of wave 1 of line "X" to the etailers b/c the etailers won't take them. WalMart/TRU/etc. they don't give an excrement.

I honestly don't know if, after all this time some of you who have been collectors and/or in the fandom for so many years, that you folks haven't picked up on this on purpose and think it's funny to make ignorant posts about how the sky is falling or if you are being willfully oblivious.

It's not some great conspiracy (over produce Bumblebee figs. so Hasbro can kill off the character? Are you serious?) Hasbro and the retailers/etailers are interested in only ONE thing. PROFIT!!!11one

Could Hasbro make even more money with better case ratios? Almost definetly. But it seems that everyone is satisfied with the status quo as far as the profit side of things are concerned that things don't look to be changing. At least in the near future. :-/

Perhaps all of the items that from various Hasbro lines that have either been cancelled or turned into Asian market/Canadian market/Ross and/or other discount store "exclusives" are the result of the mistakes that both Hasbro and the retailers have continually made over the last several years.


Your friend, TSM-in-N.Y.


"You have become the very thing you swore to destroy!"


We're not talking on the brick and mortar level. We're talking on the corporate level. And yes, the corporate level buyers have a huge impact on which toys Hasbro makes.



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