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They redubbed and edited "The Last Round-Up"


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#241 HellCat

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

If nothing else, I would have hoped the fact the show ignored the fanon take on Luna would have been an eye opener to some. If you don't personally think there's a problem with this stuff fair enough. But don't call someone delusional when they've been around long enough to see fans actively arguing the fanon for this show somehow becomes canon because of a few nods to say thanks to the fans for being supportive.

The fact that people can be so defensive about a show about cartoon ponies staggers me.

#242 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

Even shippers, arguably the hardest core of fanon subscribers, are usually joking when they say something like "OMG it's canon". No, it's not just "we see what they're saying as a joke" kind of joke, it's that they themselves actually mean it as a joke or are being facetious. Almost nobody thinks their fanon has a genuine place in the show; they just subscribe to those things they find enhance their own personal enjoyment. And personally, I don't give a flying feather one way or the other, as long as they're enjoying the bucking show.

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 5 2012, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Boards /pony/, /dis/ and /srs/ on ponychan.net, Canterlot.com , EqD's comments regarding episode or fanfics - this is where you can find the examples of such... let's name things honestly - idiocy. But I'm not going to look for them myself, no sir, sorry. I've had enough of it.


It sounds like you've already looked for them.

Edited by TM2-Megatron, 05 March 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#243 HellCat

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

It's the ones who aren't joking that personally I'm complaining about. I make bad jokes myself all the time; I'd like to think I can tell when others are doing likewise.

#244 Adam G

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 5 2012, 01:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Adam @ Mar 5 2012, 05:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If anyone really thinks that, they're even more delusional than you for thinking this is a common problem.

Couldn't resist to reply: you must be new in MLP-fandom
Not ... really at all.

QUOTE
Try to visit other parts of the fandom. More popular and frequent parts.
I don't really want to delve into the depths of fanfiction writers and rule 34 artists but from where I'm standing, this is not a problem.

QUOTE
UPD: just encountered an example: http://www.reddit.co...hvd6/its_canon/
You find it funny and see it as a joke? That's right. But some people don't. They actually think it is reference to the fanon about Fluttershy being portrayed as Dovakhin. It sounds stupid, but that's the whole damn point.

So you point to something that's a joke, and reference other people that feel completely differently. Pretty bad point you're making here.

QUOTE
If nothing else, I would have hoped the fact the show ignored the fanon take on Luna would have been an eye opener to some. If you don't personally think there's a problem with this stuff fair enough. But don't call someone delusional when they've been around long enough to see fans actively arguing the fanon for this show somehow becomes canon because of a few nods to say thanks to the fans for being supportive.
You're delusional because you are seeing something that's not there. How long you've been around isn't really relevant.

Edited by Adam, 05 March 2012 - 09:59 AM.


#245 HellCat

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:05 AM

I don't suppose I could get a list of what else you think is delusional or should I just get myself admitted to the local psychiatric ward? I mean I obviously can't trust my own memories or experience to form opinions from.

#246 Sobana

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 5 2012, 01:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Couldn't resist to reply: you must be new in MLP-fandom

*Brohoof*

QUOTE(HellCat @ Mar 5 2012, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't suppose I could get a list of what else you think is delusional or should I just get myself admitted to the local psychiatric ward? I mean I obviously can't trust my own memories or experience to form opinions from.

*Huggles*
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#247 Pocket

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 03:00 AM

You know, something occurred to me recently: One problem with the scene they wound up changing was that it was completely unclear in context (to anyone who isn't already familiar with fandom lore) whether "Derpy" was the name of the pony, or just an insult that Rainbow Dash is calling her. Because without that information it sounds like she's saying the equivalent of "Careful, dummy!" I wonder if that factored into things any.

Edited by Pocket, 06 March 2012 - 03:01 AM.

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#248 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:43 AM

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 5 2012, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(TM2-Megatron @ Mar 5 2012, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even shippers, arguably the hardest core of fanon subscribers, are usually joking[...]

Expensive jokes, consider the fact that those people is ready to play insane money for the artwork that features shipping based on such small aspects of the show, ahahaha.


I'm not really sure what those things have to do with each other. Most people don't commission much fanart. I'd say that the vast majority of fans haven't commissioned any fanart at all. No doubt some shippers commission some art or, more likely, make free requests; but what has that got to do with anything? I was just speaking of shippers, in general. Whatever they do with their interest, most accept that it exists outside of canon.

But as far as commissions go, it's their money; they can do as they see fit. And personally I'm not opposed to a bit of cute fanart. Nor are you, apparently, 'cuz every now and then you post some light shipping fanart, yourself. No harm in it that I can see.

Edited by TM2-Megatron, 06 March 2012 - 08:13 AM.


#249 Adam G

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

QUOTE(HellCat @ Mar 5 2012, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't suppose I could get a list of what else you think is delusional or should I just get myself admitted to the local psychiatric ward? I mean I obviously can't trust my own memories or experience to form opinions from.

Sorry but I can't feasibly give you a list of things that aren't true. That's not really practical.

#250 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

Ugh. So what happened between pages 4 and 14? Business as usual?
I had a better signature... then it ran away. MLP card trade list. MLP blind bag trade list.

#251 Cabooceratops

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

Kein: You know, after some thought, I think we're both right, to an extent.

There are members of the fandom who are idiots. There are plenty of idiots or jerks or creepers or just-plain-silly-people in this fandom. You're right on that point, and I apologize for not acknowledging that in the first place.

But.

That doesn't mean we should condemn the fandom as a whole. We ought to remember the sheer size of the fandom in the first place, and keep in mind the value of not judging the group based on a minority. The fandom has done some really great things, after all.

QUOTE(TM2 Dinobot @ Mar 6 2012, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ugh. So what happened between pages 4 and 14? Business as usual?

Just arguing over things, nothing you're really missing out on.

Edited by Cabooceratops, 06 March 2012 - 12:46 PM.


#252 Matenshi

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:02 PM

There are idiots and whatnot in every fandom. People just notice it more in cases where they personally find it "odd".

Every single fandom is bound to have a multitude of people who ship characters that canonically would never in a million years have anything to do with one another, yet something like Lyra and Bon Bon is pointed at as being odd just because it's lesbian ponies; and the two of them actually do have an ambiguous relationship that lets fans fill in the blanks.

#253 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 5 2012, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I did some surface lurking and apparently people not just remember that you are the one who is responsible for that silly Lyra/BonBon stuff, but they do aware that you did this scene as well. Apparently, you are "now" known as the "MLP-animator that likes lesbians and pairs those two". Should I congratulate you?


The "MLP animator that likes lesbians"? What does that even mean... and are those their words exactly, or have you given them your own unique spin?

While I don't agree with the person in your screenshot that the Lyra/Bon-Bon background scenes, with emphasis on 'Putting Your Hoof Down', were meant to imply that they're in a relationship, I don't disagree with the opinion they've expressed otherwise: It makes no difference whether a relationship is between two people of the same or opposite gender. If Lyra were being seen constantly in the background with a stallion instead of a mare, our reactions should be no different. No stigmas need be applied simply because lesbians are involved. Did I imagine the last couple decades, or are we still in the 90s? The fact they're ponies isn't relevant at all. As fictional, anthropomorphized talking animals, viewers will inevitably relate to them exactly as they would relate to a fictional human character.

As far as Lyra and Bon-Bon go, there's no doubt in my mind that in the show, they're simply friends. But like Matenshi said, their portrayal has been ambiguous enough that people can come up with other interpretations if they choose to; and I can see no harm in that. Nayuki himself has said in that past that while he only considers them to be friends, he doesn't mind if some fans consider them to be a couple.

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 6 2012, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TM2-Megatron
QUOTE
Nor are you, apparently, 'cuz every now and then you post some light shipping fanart, yourself. No harm in it that I can see.

There is a difference between us: you see them as a shipping-themed. Just like those people that see Lyra and BonBon as a lesbian lovers. I see only friendship and friends.
There was one explicit shipping picture I favorited (because of overall art quality), but I never posted it here.


Not here; I was referring to images you've posted on Ponibooru. And I'm going by the artist's intent, not whatever other interpretations are possible. It's easy to appreciate non-explicit shipping fanart as just "friendshipping", but in the end whatever the artist intended still counts for more. The main difference between us is that I don't necessarily see shipping as inherently bad just because it's shipping. I don't really know a lot of shippers personally, for MLP or any other fiction, but from what I can see a lot just have some harmless fun with it and don't go in for the explicit side of things. It does start to weird me out at the Rule 34 line, but that stuff is easy to avoid so why should I worry about it? It exists because of human nature, not because of shippers. But either way, it's not my right to condemn or judge other people for liking something I don't.

Edited by TM2-Megatron, 06 March 2012 - 06:19 PM.


#254 Sobana

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 06:19 PM

QUOTE(TM2 Dinobot @ Mar 6 2012, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ugh. So what happened between pages 4 and 14? Business as usual?

A big moral debate whether Derpy was offenses to mentally handicap people or not. Then a stirring debate whether or not by removing her was even more offense to handicap people because they were censoring them out. Then a brief discussion of what the word Derp even means. All in all, I think I proved my point! =D

QUOTE(TM2-Megatron @ Mar 6 2012, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
he doesn't mind if some some fans consider them to be a couple.

Some some? Some-some! >.<
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#255 Matenshi

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:35 AM

Much like lentils, I find the above completely incomprehensible.

#256 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:28 AM

Kein, you need to work on your reading comprehension. You're the one twisting words, albeit probably mostly unintentionally. I have nothing to justify, and least of all to you. I'm not a shipper, nor do I have these "weird interests" you talk about. If anything, you do, because you're constantly seeking this stuff out if only so you can complain some more about it. You're the only person I ever hear about any of this stuff from, so you must be pretty darn fascinated by it.

But assuming it is a language issue you're having, which I figure is the case here, I'll break it down in to more specific terms so there'll be less to misunderstand. When I say "shipping", I don't mean explicit images or rule 34 or anything else of that nature. I really hope that's clear enough, as it'll be hard to simplify much further. There's an extremely broad range of fanart that can be categorized as having a romantic element, and explicit stuff is just the extreme end of the spectrum; a type you seem to have an odd fixation on, even though you'd be better off just ignoring it like the rest of us do. If I wanted to talk about explicit fanart, I'd actually use the word "explicit" or say "Rule 34" to avoid confusion. But my earlier post specifically said "light shipping fanart", so how you managed to translate that to "explicit" is beyond me.

But all I said was this: I assess a picture first and foremost by the artist's intent, which they usually make clear enough in the dA description or wherever; and by that measure and that measure only you've posted a few shipping images in your time, even if you don't see them that way. I tend not to see them that way either, but that doesn't change what the artist wanted. It's not about the way you see them, or the way I see them. If you feel that's an accusation worthy of outrage, then by all means give yourself a stress headache raging about it. I shall recant nothing icon-arcee.gif. But it wasn't even an accusation on my part; merely an observation. I prefer the philosophy of "live and let live", and recognize shipping art (again, this doesn't mean porn) hurts nobody. But not even Rule 34 actually hurts anyone, so as long as nobody is sending it to me or forcing me to look at it, I couldn't care less what they're up to. I never said anything about your favourites on Ponibooru, so I'm not sure how you got started talking about that, but I couldn't care less if there were 1 or 1000 explicit images in there. Not only is it none of my business, but your favorites list is of no interest to me. Explicit images are blocked when I browse Ponibooru, anyway, so even if I had the time to hunt through them it would do me no good.

And yes, I've noticed you have no issues with throwing condemnations around left and right; nearly all baseless and rife with hypocrisy. You've been doing it since Day 1. But if you want to waste your time ineffectually judging people who don't care about your opinions for things nobody can stop or has any control over, by all means do so. The rest of us have better things to do with our time, so that kind of exercise in futility tends to rank rather low or not at all on the to-do list. But please do expect to be judged in return when you spout nonsense or make baseless accusations, which is about 95% of the time.

QUOTE(Kein @ Mar 7 2012, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
See, that's what I was talking about - you are just like those people that shout "OMG, THEY ARE LESBIANS AND LOVERS, THIS IS CANON!" every time when they see Lyra/BonBon or RD/PP scenes on the screen,


No, not at all; stop descending into such ridiculous hyperbole. There's a difference between the show and fanart; a difference you consistently fail to grasp. There are obviously no canon pairings on the show, there never will be, nor should there be except for those married couples we've seen like the Cakes or the parents of the main six, etc. But for fanart, if someone draws a picture of Lyra and Bon-Bon (or any other two characters) hugging or cuddling and then says in the description that it's shipping then it's safe to assume the artist meant the picture to be romantic. Even if it's just a picture of them hanging out or taking a walk, and the description of the piece includes something like "Hey! They're on a date!"... yep, you guessed it: still shipping. Of a very mild variety, but shipping nonetheless. Does that mean someone can't enjoy the picture based on their own interpretation of the two just being friends? Not at all. But what the artist wanted to say still trumps other interpretations in the grand scheme. An image doesn't need to be explicit to be romantic, just as relationships and dating in real life aren't exclusively (or even mostly, I should hope) about sex. Only people who've never been on a date themselves tend to think otherwise.

Here's an example of exactly what I'm talking about...

Exhibit #1:
http://ponibooru.413...ost/view/139930

Uploaded by Kein, the one and only. Is this picture shipping? I'd hazard a guess and say it sure looks like it. A quick look at the description on deviantArt is enough to banish all doubts, as this is quite clearly indicated to be a "Fluttermac" image by the artist (the highest authority so far as this particular image goes), which I believe is one of the names applied to the shipping of Fluttershy and Big Macintosh (see: Cheerimac for a listing of their mortal enemies). Are other interpretations of this image possible? Yes indeedy, but the artist's is made quite clear. Is it offensive? No, not at all; whether you interpret this the way the artist intended or just as friendship, this image is incapable of offering any offense that I can see.

Exhibit #2:
http://ponibooru.413...post/view/94372

Again, seems shippy. Confirmed by artist's description. Other interpretations possible? Sure, why not?

Exhibit #3:
http://ponibooru.413...post/view/61206

Nothing ambiguous about that.

Exhibit #4:
http://ponibooru.413...post/view/13929

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN. Nah, I'm kidding; I kinda laughed at that one. Weird, but then Madmax has a weird sense of humour sometimes. But in this case, I don't believe any other interpretations are possible, lmao.

I could go on with more, but surely you get the point.

Edited by TM2-Megatron, 07 March 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#257 Pocket

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

Kein, up to now I've reserved my judgment, but you've crossed a line now and things need to be said.

For someone who's a fan of My Little Pony and hangs out on a forum meant for fans of My Little Pony, you sure do seem to hate all fans of My Little Pony and everything remotely connected to them. And now you're throwing passive-aggressive snark directly at one of the people who works on the show. Is it your goal in life to systematically alienate everyone you have any common ground with? Because you've already gotten kicked out of one Pony fan forum, presumably for this same sort of thing, and you're sure not making any friends on this one either. Your insistence that "bronies ruin everything", that any content on the show that was inspired by something fans came up with, no matter how innocuous, even if it's just based on a feedback loop that started with the show's creative team in the first place (like Heartstrings and Bon-Bon), has gotten louder and more annoying and more ridiculous over the last few months, and we are all sick of it.

*inhale* Well. That rant will probably get deleted in short order, but I needed to get it off my chest.
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#258 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:02 AM

I shall imply implications alternately 'til I'm blue in the face or the cows come home, whichever timeframe proves to be less finite. (I'm guessing the latter, since it occurs to me that I don't own any cows at all!) icon-arcee.gif

But I'd hardly call knowing how to use a site's search engine "stalking". It required two terms: 'user_id=739' and 'shipping' which isolated those things uploaded by you and further eliminated everything without a shipping tag. Very quick, very easy, took up a mere 30 seconds of my time. Doubtless there are more (aside from the dozen or more other images returned by the same search that I didn't bother linking), since tagging on Ponibooru is hardly a precise science, but my implications are now implied and my points made! You made it necessary when you decided to imply implications about me; you have only yourself to blame.

EDIT: And I believe Pocket was referring to your comments to Nayuki, not myself; comments I also took issue with, if you'll recall.

Edited by TM2-Megatron, 07 March 2012 - 10:45 AM.


#259 Cabooceratops

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

Aw, my post got ignored. And it was so nice and compromise-y too!

#260 The Jawa

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

Speaking as someone that watches the show for enjoyment every so often.

I prefer the edit. The original scene seems quite mean spirited. And makes the characters involved seem very unpleasant. it wasn't humorous in the least. While the edited version seems more light and funny. Being as the it seems the creators want the character as clumsy comic relief in short a "ditz". The edit displays that far better than the original. Making things seem much less jerk vs pathetic. To exasperation vs clueless clumsiness.


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