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@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.


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#61 Octavius Prime

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:08 PM

QUOTE(Spark @ Feb 26 2012, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to throw my hat in here and say any version of Soundwave past the original, in any continuity. Even third party versions have blown it thus far, and while Takara's MP3 version is very nice, its inability to store the guns and lack of an attempt at tape interaction (unlike USB Blaster) kind of kills it. Let's not speak of Cybertron Soundwave (although Prime Soundwave feels an awful lot like a better take on that design).



Dude....TFP Soundwave?

#62 Spark

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE(Octavius Prime @ Feb 26 2012, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Spark @ Feb 26 2012, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to throw my hat in here and say any version of Soundwave past the original, in any continuity. Even third party versions have blown it thus far, and while Takara's MP3 version is very nice, its inability to store the guns and lack of an attempt at tape interaction (unlike USB Blaster) kind of kills it. Let's not speak of Cybertron Soundwave (although Prime Soundwave feels an awful lot like a better take on that design).



Dude....TFP Soundwave?


What? I have TFP Soundwave and he's honestly not all that awesome. Like I said, he's basically a superior version of Cybertron Soundwave. He's still got some very limited leg articulation thanks to some not very well thought-out digigrade legs and his UAV mode is rickety. He also feels fragile due to his many very thin parts. Looks great, however.
Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#63 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE(windsweeper @ Feb 26 2012, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pretender Bumblebee was much better than the original with that ugly faceplate. He had toon face, a rifle and his arms didn't just move up.


I don't remember Pretender Bumblebee's arms having any more articulation than the original's, save for maybe the shoulders, if you're generous about the way they fold for transformation. Definitely a step up from Goldbug, though.

As for Soundwave... they really need to find a way to allow him to maintain his original form, and the tape army, but without being saddled with the whole "cassettes = outdated" thing. Probably have to make something up, like "Soundwave transforms into a miniature remote computer espionage device, and Laserbeak, et al transform into datacards" or something.

Or just follow the other one, and make a nonworking MP3 player with memory cards that transform into robots.

All that said, WfC Soundwave is still pretty cool.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#64 Blot

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:18 AM

What they need to do is say "We should make a new Soundwave (reusing some of Soundwave's parts) but make the chest compartment large enough so it can fit the Ravage figure that came with Universe Hound in it".

Then just release the Minibots as "small" deluxes with color-appropiate gang molded Soundwave henchmen. Gears with Frenzy, Brawn with Buzzsaw... even lets Swerve have Rumble.. though Laserbeak coming with Outback isn't as gang-mold friendly. But then, they can't all be Ravage..on the other hand, the only part Ravage shared with Hound is the tail.

Hm. But you get what I'm saying.

#65 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE(Blot @ Feb 27 2012, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
color-appropiate gang molded Soundwave henchmen. Gears with Frenzy,

I see what you did there.

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#66 LV!

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE(Professor @ Feb 26 2012, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Pretender Bumblebee has Cliffjumper's entire HEAD, though. Cartoon Bumblebee doesn't have Cliffjumper's helmet.

Cartoon Bumblebee has Cliff's helmet a lot more than he has toy Bumblebee's helmet.

But cartoon Bumblebee doesn't have Cliffjumper's helmet. He has another helmet that doesn't look like toy Bumblebee's or toy Cliffjumper's. And that's not the head Pretender Bumblebee has; he has Cliffjumper's with the squared horns and the three vent slots on the cheekguards. Not even the animation model for Pretender Bumblebee uses that head; someone realized it was Cliffjumper's and changed it to a cartoon Bumblebee head.

#67 windsweeper

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:00 PM

The important thing is that Pretender Bumblebee doesn't have a slaggin faceplate. Never liked them. Only Soundwave and Snapdragon get away with that look.

Plus he was the first Mini Autobot to have a gun AND be able to hold it. Sorry Outback. Ok I know the toy isn't a Mini Autobot but the character had been.

#68 SwiftEagle

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE(windsweeper @ Feb 27 2012, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The important thing is that Pretender Bumblebee doesn't have a slaggin faceplate. Never liked them. Only Soundwave and Snapdragon get away with that look.



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#69 Kevin S

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:19 PM

Roll Out Command Optimus, from TF Animated. Too many gimmicks & not in proportion to any other figure in the Animated lineup.
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#70 Spark

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:49 PM

I'm not even entirely sure that was aimed at being part of the rest of the line. It was more like merchandise than an actual mainline figure.
Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#71 LV!

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE(SwiftEagle @ Feb 27 2012, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, I know it wasn't the intent, but I REALLY just want to start using that image as a mocking macro.

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#72 CORVUS

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:28 AM

It would be a good choice.

"You failed so hard, Optimus Prime has removed his faceplate so he can laugh at you properly."

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#73 TheMightyMollusk

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE(Mako Crab @ Feb 26 2012, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Transmetal Megatron to Dragon Megatron.

I think his TM body is the best look he ever had. Tan, black and purple color scheme. Cool robotic looking T-rex beast mode. The giant shoulder pads. The chest plate with the super evil looking Predacon emblem. The giant boots. The whole thing worked and he was just cool. Then he gets upgraded into a dragon and he. . .

* has that stupid yellow visor on his head
* tail coming off his head
* no shoulder pads
* cool chestplate is replaced by a. . . yellow orb in his gut? Makes him look like he's got a pot belly.
* Long dragon neck for an arm. Not as cool as the tail canon of his TM form.
* Red and yellow color scheme. Why even change his colors?? He's always been purple. At least when he loses the war, he'll have a job waiting for him at McDonald's. Red and yellow, y'know.

I was so disappointed when I first saw his dragon form on the show. Only 3 episodes to go, and they do that to him. Just sad.

I love the toy as a big robot dragon. As Megatron, eh, I just don't transform it. Ditto for Cryotek.

QUOTE(Spark @ Feb 26 2012, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh yeah, and Optimal Optimus. It's crap. It's always been crap, even when everyone was raving over the damn thing when it came out. The colors are horrible. It looks bad in all four "modes", two of which are so tacked on it's painful. The original Ultra was a hell of a lot better.

His alt modes are no worse than any of the other Transmetals, really. They were very much function over form. The colors are definitely a mess, though.

#74 Esser-Z

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:08 PM

I love OpOp.

#75 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:34 PM

Oh, I've got a controversial one! Cybertron Voyager Starscream. Armada and Energon Starscream each did a very good job of being a very specific toy. Cybertron Starscream tried to be both at once and ended up failing to be either, but nobody noticed back then because ZOMG WAR WITHIN.

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#76 Monzo

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE(▲ndrusi @ Feb 28 2012, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, I've got a controversial one! Cybertron Voyager Starscream. Armada and Energon Starscream each did a very good job of being a very specific toy. Cybertron Starscream tried to be both at once and ended up failing to be either, but nobody noticed back then because ZOMG WAR WITHIN.


On the other hand, it got us Cybertron Legends Starscream, who was the best Legends toy for ages.

#77 TheMightyMollusk

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:30 PM

QUOTE(Monzo @ Feb 28 2012, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(▲ndrusi @ Feb 28 2012, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, I've got a controversial one! Cybertron Voyager Starscream. Armada and Energon Starscream each did a very good job of being a very specific toy. Cybertron Starscream tried to be both at once and ended up failing to be either, but nobody noticed back then because ZOMG WAR WITHIN.


On the other hand, it got us Cybertron Legends Starscream, who was the best Legends toy for ages.

Depending on your view on Legends, that could be damning with faint praise.

#78 Spark

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE(▲ndrusi @ Feb 28 2012, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, I've got a controversial one! Cybertron Voyager Starscream. Armada and Energon Starscream each did a very good job of being a very specific toy. Cybertron Starscream tried to be both at once and ended up failing to be either, but nobody noticed back then because ZOMG WAR WITHIN.

Eh, I liked it well enough, but I still liked Energon Starscream waaaaaay more. Neither one had a face sculpt as good as the Armada one for some reason, however.
Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#79 Professor

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:10 AM

QUOTE
But cartoon Bumblebee doesn't have Cliffjumper's helmet. He has another helmet that doesn't look like toy Bumblebee's or toy Cliffjumper's. And that's not the head Pretender Bumblebee has; he has Cliffjumper's with the squared horns and the three vent slots on the cheekguards. Not even the animation model for Pretender Bumblebee uses that head; someone realized it was Cliffjumper's and changed it to a cartoon Bumblebee head.

Yes, and yet because cartoon Bumblebee's head bears a strong resemblance to Cliffjumper's, the Pretender toy's head still looks much more like Bumblebee's cartoon head than any previous Bumblebee toy -- making even the "wrong" head a clear improvement in show accuracy.

#80 Boltax

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:23 AM

I think Goldbug is a better upgrade than Pretender Bumblebee. As much as I like the Pretender gimmick, Bumblebee is not the best Pretender out there, and he doesn't have a pull-back motor.

Goldbug has a pull-back motor. And an awesome faceplate.

So in that respect, PRetender Bumblebee *is* a complete failure as an upgrade.

--Andrew S.



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