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@  Whirl Maximus : (29 July 2016 - 01:20 PM)

IDW G1 has been a victim of it's own success.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (29 July 2016 - 01:23 AM)

Though frankly I prefer IDW Ratchet with a Marvel-style head rather than his current Prime-style head.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (29 July 2016 - 12:34 AM)

Like dual Fall of Cybertron-IDW G1 designs.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (28 July 2016 - 10:55 PM)

And it at least shows that they're allowed to repurpose designs from other universes.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (28 July 2016 - 10:54 PM)

Dark Cybertron was around when things showing up in toyline and comic together became a really major thing.

@  Waspinator : (28 July 2016 - 10:51 PM)

Given that that Starscream says "Armada Starscream" on his box, I assume the toy was meant to be Armada Starscream and was just re-purposed by IDW to be a body for their Starscream.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (28 July 2016 - 09:24 PM)

Hey, Bass X0. It's nice to see somene else paying attention to the distinctions.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (28 July 2016 - 06:44 PM)

Also, Albino Prime that isn't Magnus.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (28 July 2016 - 06:43 PM)

They made a toy that was IDW Starscream with an entirely Armada look.

@  Bass X0 : (28 July 2016 - 05:53 PM)

Other than a change of gimmicks and physical appearance (i.e. Deluxe Galvatron), Hasbro generally keeps a familiar color scheme for the Generations toys. It may not always be perfect or completely accurate, but I can't think of a Generations toy that looks completely different in color scheme to how they should do. A quick l;ook around my room and I can't see anyone who is completely the wrong color scheme. I'd say the FoC Combaticons and Wreckers are the wrong colors, but they're not supposed to be the G1 characters so they get a pass.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (28 July 2016 - 05:45 PM)

The comics aren't beholden to previous G1 material, and the toyline doesn't have a strict need to follow the comics either so...

@  Bass X0 : (28 July 2016 - 05:40 PM)

And yet the comics are not damned. This is G1 Sentinel Prime, not Animated or Movie Sentinel Prime and so he should look the part to how G1 Sentinel Prime has been portrayed so far. An Animated Sentinel Prime color scheme can come later. I don't recall how important the G1 legacy of Primes (Convoys) is in Japan or even if they have Nova Prime, Sentinel Prime, and previous Primes. So maybe Takara will paint him as Animated Sentinel just because its what Japanese fans are most familiar with.  Sentinel Prime didn't have to have been a pre-use of the Astrotrain mold, indeed why even choose G1 Sentinel Prime at all after how long neglecting him?

@  OrionPax44 : (28 July 2016 - 02:02 PM)

Same here unluckiness. I bought him mostly for the Fire Guts look of the Titan Master.

@  unluckiness : (28 July 2016 - 08:38 AM)

I kinda like Fire Guts Sentinel Prime TBH. Though, I think the gray would have looked better as black.

@  Boomhauer : (28 July 2016 - 08:36 AM)

I would've been fine with the Bayformers 3 Sentinel colors, he looked slick.

@  Whirl Maximus : (28 July 2016 - 08:33 AM)

Same as Animated Sentinel Prime then, I bet he's a Functionist fundamentalist too!

@  Rycochet : (28 July 2016 - 08:07 AM)

Sentinel Prime's colour scheme is awful, they should have painted him in his animated deco, comics be damned.

@  Dracula : (28 July 2016 - 07:38 AM)

He's also orange

@  Paladin : (28 July 2016 - 07:23 AM)

kinda not enjoying my TR Sentinel Prime now that someone summed up his personality as "Make Cybertron Great Again."

@  OrionPax44 : (27 July 2016 - 04:51 PM)

Sounds pretty kinky.

@  Whirl Maximus : (27 July 2016 - 04:17 PM)

the wind blew the sun into the river. honest!

@  Vexwing : (27 July 2016 - 12:34 PM)

Sadly no orchestra for me, but we did have the TFA clip as well.

@  ChessPieceFace : (27 July 2016 - 12:17 PM)

I saw Weird Al at the Hollywood Bowl on Saturday, playing with a full orchestra. It was pretty special. And yes, Dare To Be Stupid! With an introductory video clip from TFA, no less.

@  Vexwing : (27 July 2016 - 11:33 AM)

Got to see Weird Al perform Dare to be Stupid in his set last night! That was a nice surprise.

@  LBD "Nyt... : (27 July 2016 - 01:40 AM)

TMW you see a bunch of people have liked something you posted while you were away, and you're like "what did I even say?!"

@  Bass X0 : (26 July 2016 - 05:26 PM)

Regarding MTMTE#55 being released early in some places, its okay to discuss the contents of the issue as long as spoilers are kept within the thread. I refuse to read discussion threads of comics I have yet to read to avoid being spoiled. I also find it pointless to go into a discussion thread and expect to not be spoiled if you have yet to read the issue (unless you don't care).

@  The Doctor Who : (26 July 2016 - 07:11 AM)

@Patchy 'cause people like how the kaiser rolls!

@  MEDdMI : (26 July 2016 - 05:47 AM)

I'm officially addicted to the Comics theme. Every other themes are dull and boring now, I can't stand to look at them for more than a few posts.

@  Broadside : (26 July 2016 - 03:59 AM)

"Beast Wars anniversary"? Highly dubious.

@  Patchouli Kn... : (26 July 2016 - 12:16 AM)

How come everybody wanna keep it like the kaiser?

@  zephyrX9 : (26 July 2016 - 12:16 AM)

the kaiser stole our beast wars toys

@  ▲ndrusi : (25 July 2016 - 08:35 PM)

beast wars dicketeth anniversary

@  Locoman : (25 July 2016 - 07:16 PM)

My story begins in nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say "dickety" because the Kaiser had stolen our word "twenty". I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles.

@  Telly : (25 July 2016 - 05:21 PM)

its the rye of the kaiser its the thrill of the the fight

@  ▲ndrusi : (25 July 2016 - 05:18 PM)

Fierce Grape?

@  OrionPax44 : (25 July 2016 - 05:09 PM)

The Rye or the Kaiser.

@  tffan01 : (25 July 2016 - 04:55 PM)

watch?v=gyKOM3469_Y I've found this weird kids video.

@  OrionPax44 : (25 July 2016 - 04:20 PM)

Doozer Sticks

@  The Doctor Who : (25 July 2016 - 04:19 PM)

Fraggle Rock!

@  OrionPax44 : (25 July 2016 - 04:18 PM)

Happy Pop (nauseating just saying it)

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 July 2016 - 03:51 PM)

Hard Rock Hallelujah!

@  OrionPax44 : (25 July 2016 - 03:48 PM)

Soggy Rock

@  Dracula : (25 July 2016 - 02:36 PM)

Tank Concrete!

@  MEDdMI : (25 July 2016 - 02:16 PM)

the Third.

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 July 2016 - 02:16 PM)

Flint Chesthair!

@  OrionPax44 : (25 July 2016 - 02:12 PM)

Sheeps Butt Ramsbottom

@  MEDdMI : (25 July 2016 - 02:08 PM)

Fancypants

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 July 2016 - 02:01 PM)

Biggles.

@  Summer : (25 July 2016 - 01:55 PM)

Jones.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (25 July 2016 - 12:08 PM)

Osmosis.


- - - - -

Upgrade failures


149 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:02 PM

In talk about Hall of Fame nominees recently I saw some people comment on Beast Machines Silverbolt being a worse toy that the Beast Wars one. I wouldn't argue that either, as I like the Beast Wars (and his Universe recolor" much better than the rainbow chickenhawk.

This got me thinking, what are the biggest failures in releasing "upgrades" existing characters? One that came to mind for me was Armada Thundercracker and Skywarp. The Cybertron toys were such disappointments. What comes to your mind?

#2 Exillion

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:45 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Feb 24 2012, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In talk about Hall of Fame nominees recently I saw some people comment on Beast Machines Silverbolt being a worse toy that the Beast Wars one. I wouldn't argue that either, as I like the Beast Wars (and his Universe recolor" much better than the rainbow chickenhawk.

This got me thinking, what are the biggest failures in releasing "upgrades" existing characters? One that came to mind for me was Armada Thundercracker and Skywarp. The Cybertron toys were such disappointments. What comes to your mind?


As Silverbolt is my favorite BW/BM next to Rhinox, I always hated the BM toy as it was not a fitting update for the birddog and was happy when repaint of the original toy in his techno-organic color scheme showed up.

As for other upgrades gone bad, I would say Cheetor from the Universe line and Rattrap from the BM line. Seems like Maximal toys didn't measure up once BM started.

Edited by Exillion, 24 February 2012 - 11:47 PM.

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#3 Demovere Xeno

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:21 AM

Armada -> Universe Hot Shot? I like the updated version somewhat, but it's hard to argue that we went from a slightly-immobile, but solidly-playable toy to a highly articulated, but floppy figure with clearance issues in his back kibble and a Mini-Con that can no longer stand on its own. icon-op.gif

#4 Boltax

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:01 AM

Universe Cheetor and Universe Dinobot are both lesser "upgrades" they do some things 'better', than their original toys -- but one vitally important part is missing... any sense of fun or enjoyment. They're just not fun to play with.

--Andrew S.

#5 ShadowMan024

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:21 AM

Most of the figures I really wanted to like from Universe (Galvatron, Cheetor, Hot Shot, Dinobot) were pretty awful.

Also, there's the whole deal of Leader Bulkhead, while being a fun toy, just wasn't as fun for me as the Voyager version.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.


#6 Kup

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:31 AM

Universe & Classics have quite a few IMO: Galvatron, Grimlock, Cheetor, Dinobot, Tracks.
"Someone once told me that Time is a predator that stalked us all our lives, but I'd rather believe that Time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment -- because they'll never come again."

#7 MrBlud

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:33 AM

Universe Cheetor definitely.

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#8 ShadowMan024

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

QUOTE(Kup @ Feb 25 2012, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Universe & Classics have quite a few IMO: Galvatron, Grimlock, Cheetor, Dinobot, Tracks.

I never bought Tracks, but that mold was perfect as Wheeljack icon-ironhide.gif

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.


#9 crazyjw18

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

Definitely Universe Cheetor. I never had original Galvatron, but it's pretty obvious the Universe one is full of fail even without having the original.
Universe Hot shot comes close to being better, but does have some issues. Jolt, on the other hand, has clearly become much worse.

I do like Universe Dinobot better. Those switchable hands... I guess it helps that I never cared for the original mold all that much.

If we can count characters from one movie to the next, Voyager Ironhides.... I didn't think the DOTM was as good as the old mold.

Battle in a Box Prime doesn't seem as good to me as the original toy. And without his trailer, Powermaster Prime isn't anywhere near as good as the original.

#10 tec

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:07 AM

Classics Galvatron So bad I had to own it twice to make sure it was really bad
I hope one day they retry him in a movie accrate way

Wait. Wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me that tec has a job? I thought his sole reasons for existence are cheesecake and horrible grammar.-Shadowman024

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#11 Kup

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:55 AM

QUOTE(Spin Out @ Feb 25 2012, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Kup @ Feb 25 2012, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Universe & Classics have quite a few IMO: Galvatron, Grimlock, Cheetor, Dinobot, Tracks.

I never bought Tracks, but that mold was perfect as Wheeljack icon-ironhide.gif


Exactly. Besides the head and bring blue, it wasn't a good tracks. But as Jackie? Perfection.

Also: Blurr
"Someone once told me that Time is a predator that stalked us all our lives, but I'd rather believe that Time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment -- because they'll never come again."

#12 Boltax

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

I think I want to add some of the Action Masters to this list. I'm not going to trash ALL the Action Masters -- a lot of people really like them. But I think there's TWO Action Masters in particular who are a SERIOUS downgrade from the original toys.

Blaster and Soundwave.

While there's a definite compensation with, say, Snarl, because he comes with Tyrannitron... it's just not the case with Soundwave and Blaster! Those two already *HAD* little partner robots, and their little partner robots were actually way better than the Action Master partners. I really do think Blaster and Soundwave were massively downgraded thanks to Nucleon.

--Andrew S.
(On the other hand, Action Master Thundercracker? Massive upgrade. Action Master Starscream is... kind of a lateral move from the Pretender.)

Edited by Boltax, 25 February 2012 - 09:37 AM.


#13 Boltax

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:42 AM

Oh, I also want to add the original Legends figures -- the Pretender Classics that were repackaged without their Pretender shells. While Starscream and Bumblebee were definite upgrades, Grimlock and Jazz were DEFINITELY downgrades.

That said, add the Pretender Shells and there's no doubting that the Pretender Classics are way better than the originals. It's just those ones where they released them WITHOUT their shells that I take issue with. That's insane.

--Andrew S.
(Also... I don't know that even with his Pretender shell that Grimlock is an improvement. As much as I like the Pretender play pattern, the original Grimlock is just a really appealing toy.)

#14 Octavius Prime

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:45 AM

I fail to see how RtS Tracks isn't un upgrade of the original. He looks just like the G1, but now has articulation and storage for weapons. I think the only weak part might be the flying car mode.

#15 Dante

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:56 AM

Classics Jetfire is a lateral move from the original Bandai toy at best.

Arm articulation aside, I feel that RtS Jazz is inferior to Binaltech Meister both in terms of engineering and sculpting.

RtS G2 Prime is vastly inferior to Laser Optimus in every conceivable way, and doesn't even have an excuse for the one flaw both share (colors) since he's not gang molded with a huge trailer.

Rodimus Prime is a pretty lame toy compared to Hot Rod.

QUOTE
I fail to see how RtS Tracks isn't an upgrade of the original

Well, sure. But it's perhaps no better than the Binaltech version, and arguably worse.

Edited by Dante, 25 February 2012 - 09:58 AM.


#16 LV!

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:33 AM

BM Rattrap is by far my favorite Rattrap toy. I really wish we'd ever gotten a redeco of it, maybe as someone a little more feral.

The Ravage that came with Universe Hound is worse at everything than the G1 Ravage toy except for "being three-dimensional", and has a ridculous bird head to boot.

#17 Alpha Omega Trion Supreme

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:38 AM

I kind of want to say Energon Rodimus, just because of the weird proportions so it can be a pair of pants. I know some people really like the mold, and while I don't regard it strictly as an upgrade failure, I don't at all see it as an upgrade success. Energon Prowl kind of qualifies for the same reason, although that's not as obvious an upgrade attempt that pushes the G1 buttons like Rodimus does.

As has been mentioned, Classics Galvatron definitely qualifies. I like the figure, but it's definitely a failure at delivering what it promises. Way too complicated transformation that's made worse by it being at a deluxe scale, and which also really kills the aesthetics and leg articulation. I keep hoping we'll get a G1 toon Galvatron recolor of the smaller Energon Megatron mold.

Blurr isn't so much an upgrade failure as it's a non-G1 Blurr. I see what they were trying to do, and I think they accomplished it, but there's still a hole in my G1 movie cast.

Also, Classics Powerglide.

#18 Shadewing

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:45 AM

QUOTE(Octavius Prime @ Feb 25 2012, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fail to see how RtS Tracks isn't un upgrade of the original. He looks just like the G1, but now has articulation and storage for weapons. I think the only weak part might be the flying car mode.


Except he doesn't, he looks like some chunky body builder when compared to his original slender frame. He's boxy and ugly, maybe if the roof didn't take up 150% of his chest he might look better.

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#19 Octavius Prime

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:56 AM

QUOTE(Database @ Feb 25 2012, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Octavius Prime @ Feb 25 2012, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fail to see how RtS Tracks isn't un upgrade of the original. He looks just like the G1, but now has articulation and storage for weapons. I think the only weak part might be the flying car mode.


Except he doesn't, he looks like some chunky body builder when compared to his original slender frame. He's boxy and ugly, maybe if the roof didn't take up 150% of his chest he might look better.


He is boxier, that's for sure. However, I still don't consider him at all to be an "upgrade failure."


I also think he's a better toy than the alternator. The alt had the fake chest and was awful at dealing with kibble. I mean, I still like the mold (especially the Ravage version), but I almost wish they had gone back and put the Tracks head on a blue version of Alt. Sideswipe. Yeah, his leg movement might be crippled, but he's not a car explosion when viewed from the back.

Also, I prefer Animated leader Bulkhead to the voyager. It's a great toy.

#20 Shadewing

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:06 AM

QUOTE(Octavius Prime @ Feb 25 2012, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Database @ Feb 25 2012, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Octavius Prime @ Feb 25 2012, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fail to see how RtS Tracks isn't un upgrade of the original. He looks just like the G1, but now has articulation and storage for weapons. I think the only weak part might be the flying car mode.


Except he doesn't, he looks like some chunky body builder when compared to his original slender frame. He's boxy and ugly, maybe if the roof didn't take up 150% of his chest he might look better.


He is boxier, that's for sure. However, I still don't consider him at all to be an "upgrade failure."


I also think he's a better toy than the alternator. The alt had the fake chest and was awful at dealing with kibble. I mean, I still like the mold (especially the Ravage version), but I almost wish they had gone back and put the Tracks head on a blue version of Alt. Sideswipe. Yeah, his leg movement might be crippled, but he's not a car explosion when viewed from the back.

Also, I prefer Animated leader Bulkhead to the voyager. It's a great toy.


I prefer the Alt for the fake chest, becuase it keeps his lithe athletic look. If he wasn't larger then most voyagers he'd be my preferred version.

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