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@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 02:20 AM)

Why do you hate yourself?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (24 August 2016 - 12:45 AM)

I still need to read everything after Vol. 1 of RG1...

@  Telly : (23 August 2016 - 11:47 PM)

i really wouldve liked to see rg1 pick up where the marvel run left off (or just a couple years after), instead of jumping 20 years. i wanna see how shit went down on earth

@  Dracula : (23 August 2016 - 09:54 PM)

After RG1, I'd just as soon have nobody ever touch the marvel continuity again


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37 replies to this topic

#1 tec

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:33 AM

I watched this one today and it was wonderful it might be a little slow to some
and it did not take the turns I expected..thats a good thing I bleave when I though it would go right it went left and left me wanting more from this world and character designs..
The music and sound effects where top notch...sept for that very last credit song dint care for it yet

See it support more films like this


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#2 MrBlud

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:35 AM

Just got back from seeing it in Michigan.

GREAT film, I really enjoyed it.

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#3 Mark Pellegrini

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:37 AM

Gonna snag it when it hits blu ray.

I've heard good things about this one, and after being let down by "Ponyo" and flat-out disliking "Earthsea", I've been in need of a genuinely good Ghibli flick for a while.

Looking forward to it. (I swear I read a whole mountain of Borrowers books when I was in elementary school, not that I can recall the first thing about em...)

Edited by DrSpengler, 18 February 2012 - 12:37 AM.


#4 Copper Bezel

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:20 AM

Oh wow. I hadn't heard anything about this. Thanks for mentioning it - I'm going to check it out ASAP. Several showtimes within a few miles of home for me, too. (I'm surprised - I thought these usually got a pretty limited release.)

#5 Daith

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:33 AM

Sadly none of the local Theatres are playing this. Not too surprising after the lukewarm welcome that Ponyo got a few years ago. Debating whether I should take the trip down to Portland or just wait and see if it shows up late.
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#6 Star-A-Star

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:34 AM

QUOTE(DrSpengler @ Feb 18 2012, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gonna snag it when it hits blu ray.

I've heard good things about this one, and after being let down by "Ponyo" and flat-out disliking "Earthsea", I've been in need of a genuinely good Ghibli flick for a while.

Looking forward to it. (I swear I read a whole mountain of Borrowers books when I was in elementary school, not that I can recall the first thing about em...)


I, on the other hand, LOVED Ponyo and have heard very little good about this one. The general impression that I get is it's barely better than Earthsea.
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#7 Geoff

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:39 AM

I thought it was the dullest anime I have ever watched. decidedly unlikable main character and an ending which is the film equivalent of saying hug it...

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#8 tec

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:39 AM

The ending is not what you would expect,and I can appreate that now. I understand now why it happened the way it did.

Edited by tec, 18 February 2012 - 11:40 AM.

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#9 Lizard King

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:42 AM

I'm looking forward to it

#10 Copper Bezel

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE(Geoff)
I thought it was the dullest anime I have ever watched. decidedly unlikable main character and an ending which is the film equivalent of saying hug it...

Well, I enjoyed Howl's Moving Castle, so on that basis, this still sounds like a good time investment. = )

(The only more straightforward cinematic equivalents of "hug it" that come to mind are the endings of Blazing Saddles and Monty Python and the Holy Grail.)

Edited by Copper Bezel, 18 February 2012 - 12:10 PM.


#11 Adam G

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

Trailer for this one had me interested, so I'll probably see it within the next week.

The dub cast includes Wizards of Waverly Place couple Justin and Juliette so that's pretty cool...

#12 Chris McFeely

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

Not seen this myself yet, but for those curious about comparing, I understand that the English blu-ray/DVD release of the film - which has been out here for a month or two now - has an entirely different dub with a host of British actors. Seems a lot more fitting for the Borrowers than a buncha Yanks. icon-hotrod.gif

Edited by Chris McFeely, 18 February 2012 - 01:05 PM.


#13 tec

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:15 PM

Yeah for the first time the english version has two seprate set of actors one for the European release and one for the US release...first time this happend on a Ghibli film

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#14 Mark Pellegrini

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:20 PM

Huh. That IS strange. I'll be getting the R1 version and that set of actors, but I'll be interested in hearing which version people prefer.

Thus far, Disney hasn't done a bad dub of a Ghibli flick ("Princess Mononoke" was their subsidiary, Miramax, so I guess you could blame that one on Disney) so I trust the R1 dub will be competent and well-cast, though the R2 version may turn out to be more so.

Edited by DrSpengler, 18 February 2012 - 01:21 PM.


#15 Solarstorm

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:25 PM

My daughter wants to see it. She watches Disney a lot and they've been hyping it up, given the voice-actors.

It's her reward for a good second quarter report card.
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#16 Copper Bezel

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:31 PM

Seeing this in a theater on a weekend was a bad idea and a strange experience. There were - I think they're called children? There were a lot of them. Most of the people who were in the theater who weren't me were children. I only ever really see them on television, when someone's cut school funding again or something.

At any rate, the atmosphere and mood of the film were wonderful; I love how fussy the film is over all the little naturalistic details. And although all characters Miyazaki touches become exactly the same characters, there was nothing grating or unlikable about Teen Leprechaun Nausicaa or Ailing Child Ashtaka. Some of the other characters' dialogue hurt a little, but it was easy to ignore, for the most part, that sounds happened when the characters' lips moved, and still appreciate the rest of the movie. HIGHLIGHT to view:
Sadako's sudden, vocal acceptance that the borrowers are real, immediately after she decides that Hara really has lost it, is exactly wrong. Once she sees the tea leaf and smiles, she doesn't really need to say anything, and she seems to do so only to give Shawn the opportunity to say "borrower" again a few more times, and then explain it again, in case we'd missed it the first several times.

I definitely didn't see any problem with the ending. Rather liked it, in fact. HIGHLIGHT to view:
The voiceover was unnecessary, but events were unresolved in only the good way, and the ending was the actual resolution of an actual narrative arc, which was a change from, say, Ponyo.

I have to repeat the complaint about the terribly out-of-place song added to the credits, though. It didn't sound like a big deal when you guys mentioned it, but as scenes of the movie are in fact still happening during the credits, it really is a bizarre and distracting choice.

Naturally, I really am curious to see the earlier, British dub, now.

Also, there is only reason Ghibli made this film, and that reason is surface tension.

Edit: Swear filter on Ash-taka, seriously? Bleh. = P

Edited by Copper Bezel, 18 February 2012 - 09:35 PM.


#17 MrBlud

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

The actor for the Father in the American version is Will Arnett...and he does "Batman voice" the entire movie. Not Bale's gruff Bats but...Batman voice.

It's hilarious.

But if you didn't find find Liam Neeson terribly off-putting in Ponyo you probably won't mind.

Me, I thought it was kinda funny and it still "worked" so it didn't really take me out of the movie.

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#18 Jeremy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:14 AM

I'm not sure if the premise of this one just doesn't really grab me, or I'm a little jaded after being let down by some of the newer Ghibli movies, but I can't find myself too excited. I would say I'll pick it up on DVD, but I've noticed the Ghibli movies rarely seem to get below the $20 line if you can even find them, so I'm not sure. I didn't even get around to seeing Earthsea yet.
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#19 Deuce

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:32 AM

I had watched the UK Dub last month when it came out on Bluray and found the film underwhelming. Whilst looking great, the movie is very sedate to the point that not much really happens. This may be due to the way the UK dub cast kinda sleep walks their way through the dialogue. The story doesnt really peak or go anywhere either and I felt it had lost the charm of earlier Ghibli films. My girlfriend, who is the real Ghibli devote of us, didnt enjoy it much either, stating the same reasons I did.

Im intrigued by the voice over added to the end of the US version as there wasnt one for the UK Dub, seems like it would have broken the flow of the ending.

#20 Boss Borot

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:57 AM

I watched the UK dub and really liked it. I read some of the books when I was a kid, so the slow, sort of unfinished story wasn't a surprise to me. Beautiful, beautiful art, too.



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