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Fall of Cybertron Pictures in New Game Informer


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#261 Monzo

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:39 AM

QUOTE(Cheetimus Primal @ Feb 4 2012, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Feb 4 2012, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Cheetimus Primal @ Feb 4 2012, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since there is no animosity I have no issue with debating this honestly.
Which is why I'm going to call your Wolverine reference a strawman.
Wolverine is a person. He looks the way he looks and changing that drastically just makes no sense. But TFs are known for changing their altmodes and changing appearance is kinda their schtick. Different altmodes for TFs are like different gear and uniforms for humans. And lord knows Wolverine has changed his uniform plenty over the years.


I disagree with your thesis that TFs are known for changing their alt modes. To the extent that we are talking. Remember you're talking along the lines of sleek motorcycle to tank or helicopter. I'd argue that that sort of change is actually pretty rare in Transformers. Far more common is say, becoming a different make of jet or a different model of car or truck. Where the general alt-mode family is kept and just the details are tweaked.

That, I would say, is equivalent of changing clothes. However, changing between a motorcycle and a submarine (to pic something at random) is not that usual or comon. That's the sort of change I see as counter to what I want to see when updating a character. Wolverine changes his uniform yes, but he's never changed into a six foot tall Andorian, cause that's the toy we have to work with repaintwise and he is a mutant they have secondary mutations and change (look at Beast).

Ok, yes that's a bit exagerative, but my point is that Human or Transformer there are some physical traits and parts of their nature that I think is important to maintaining the character. I'd actually argue this to be MORE important for someone like Afterburner who never got to get much characterization because being the "Technobot motorcycle" is actually a good portion of who he is for folks as a character. Lose that and you loose Afterburner IMO.


ZacWilliam, in the end of course it's personal taste and preference how much it matters to anyone. I'm not against alt mode changes ever absolutely in no circumstances can it ever work, but I know if I want a homage to an old guy, personally, capturing that old guys alt form at least passably is as important as the robot look.

I can see your point about drastic altmode changes but only for characters that, again, are defined by that altmode.
Well let me take your comments on Afterburner. You say he's defined by his altmode because he doesn't have much else. I say that makes him perfect for some reimagining seeing as all we really need to stick to with this guys is a group of smart dudes with techy bodies. We can give Afterburner just about any alt mode. I mean his name already makes no sense on a motorcycle so if he's lucky we can even help him out with that (and it occurs to me that all the Technobot limbs have flight mode style names but I digress). Characters with so little development open themselves up to far more change.
And I really wanna distance myself from comparing change in a TF to change in a human character as it really makes little to no sense.


Aside from Lightspeed, the Technobots traditionally didn't actually have anything to do with technology or even being smart (they're all 6 INTs, aside from Lightspeed at 8 and Scattershot at 7). The only place they've ever been science-y is IDW, which I assume happened because Furman doesn't tend to actually research the character quirks of who he writes. (I mean, I still love the guy, but he never once wrote Weirdwolf with his speech tic, and that's his entire character.) I just felt it prudent to bring that up.

Also:

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#262 BB Shockwave

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:52 AM

Monzo - the face really resembles the Alt. face, but the helmet doesn't. In fact, the helmet doesn't resemble any prior form of Swindle. But I am fine with that. The whole block-head Swindle we know and love is all because his head was a combiner peg... it's time we moved past that.

Btw, if nothing else, Vortex as a Cybertronian helicopter will clarify even to the strongest doubters that Cybertron does have an atmosphere. (I wonder why some people were doubting it even after we have been introduced to Springer...)

I wonder where Bruticus' double backpack-guns will come from - in the FOC intro he has them, but WFC Onslaught only has small guns on his back.





I can't wait to see the alt modes of Vortex and Blast-Off.

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Feb 3 2012, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That speculation aside, a small part of me wants to nitpick slightly about Swindle's head or Brawl being two barreled like Onslaught, tiny G1 fanboy things.... But, well, NO I WILL NOT DO THAT. Getting 5 G1 inspired deluxe Combaticons that form Bruticus is a HONEST TO HASBRO MIRACLE that I will do nothing but rejoice over. Holy Cow!

-ZacWilliam, wow. Can I say Wow again? Wow. Can't wait to see the others.


I think TWW (so, Don) started the whole two-barrelled Brawl thing. It was a merging of his turret gun and the dual sonic cannons the G1 character had on his alt. mode.



I am OK with this, because,well, I always found two-barrelled tanks awesome ever since I played C&C. icon-hotrod.gif
The only Combaticon I am iffy about is Onslaught - he used to be a long multi-wheeled thing with loooong dual barrells, now he is a compact truck with barely non-existent cannons. But I like his robot mode, so that evens it out.

Edited by BB Shockwave, 04 February 2012 - 04:40 AM.

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#263 BB Shockwave

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 04:20 AM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Feb 4 2012, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I could accept Swindle being a helicopter and Blast Off being a tank, at least their colors were somewhat accurate. Sure its not their usual alternate modes but I thought it would make for some interesting character stories about how they react and adapt to the change of alternate mode.


Really? I could not bring myself to buy even the Energon combiner duplicate limbs. I only owned one of each mold, until some guy offered me the remaining 2 Aerialbots for like, 2.5$ each, that's the only reason I own them.
Swindle as a helicopter and Blast Off as a tank just... don't work, not to mention the fact that they don't even resemble the characters in robot mode or colors!

I do own Blast Off, but it's because he is an excellent proxy for Classics Quake. icon-hotrod.gif



If this Bruticus is ever repainted, it'll be like the RID Ruination repaints - urban cameo, desert cameo, maybe a G2 repaint as a Toys'R Us/BBTS exclusive for the collectors. I can't see them doing an Autobot combiner from these guys. And frankly, neither would I be interested in it.

QUOTE(Nanite @ Feb 4 2012, 01:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(MrBlud @ Feb 3 2012, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
YES!

...but he better have freakin' fists and not any of that claw hand Energon bulljive.


Ah, yes, need to add that one: This will have absolutely crap limbs, with no hands or feet, and fall over all the time.


Have you been asleep the past months? We have seen what FOC Bruticus looks like (see my post above). He has regular 5-fingered hands.

Edited by BB Shockwave, 04 February 2012 - 04:28 AM.

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#264 Chip

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:18 AM

QUOTE(Quantumhawk @ Feb 3 2012, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All this talk about Hasbro remolding these or Botcon reusing these...have you guys forgotten the rules? I was under the impression molds of anything used in the game were under strict licensing agreements, meaning off limits for the club and probably not available for remolding unless planned and executed relatively quickly after the debut of the line (see Cliffjumper).

I'm pretty sure that was just for the movie games, and then only because those designs were kinda mixed up with Dreamworks. I don't think Hasbro will ever get into that situation again if they can help it.

#265 Octavius Prime

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:54 AM

Why do people keep assuming that because Bruticus has regular hands in the game that his toy will? I mean, I'm not saying that we should expect energon hands Mk II, but just don't be disappointed if the hands end up being less than ideal. I'm hoping against that, but we simply don't know what they're like yet and have only the most recent gestalts (Energon) to go on.

By the way, why exactly does Bruticus need five fingers? He's not the Decepticon typist.

#266 NightViper

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:56 AM

QUOTE(Chip @ Feb 4 2012, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Quantumhawk @ Feb 3 2012, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All this talk about Hasbro remolding these or Botcon reusing these...have you guys forgotten the rules? I was under the impression molds of anything used in the game were under strict licensing agreements, meaning off limits for the club and probably not available for remolding unless planned and executed relatively quickly after the debut of the line (see Cliffjumper).

I'm pretty sure that was just for the movie games, and then only because those designs were kinda mixed up with Dreamworks. I don't think Hasbro will ever get into that situation again if they can help it.



Of course with an outside studio involved in designing the characters, IP ownership isn't the only thing that can put an end to potential repaints. If there's a deal where the studio gets a cut of toy sales, that could prevent Fun Pub toys just as easily.

So while I have no doubts that Hasbro owns the designs here (which is probably why IDW can use them for non-WfC comics), having to send a portion of all sales to High Moon could easily make toys too expensive to produce for Fun Pub.

#267 Silent_Magnus

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:38 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Btw, if nothing else, Vortex as a Cybertronian helicopter will clarify even to the strongest doubters that Cybertron does have an atmosphere. (I wonder why some people were doubting it even after we have been introduced to Springer...)

I don't see why people would doubt that when it seems like there's always something burning in the trailers for these games.
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#268 Powered Convoy

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:04 AM

QUOTE(ShinRa Inc @ Feb 4 2012, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Database @ Feb 3 2012, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Streetstar - Black Cop Car or well any Deco that distinguishes him from Prowl


Blue/white NYPD Deco. Or Navy/Gold NY State Police. Or Green/White Las Vegas/Florida style.

QUOTE(Database @ Feb 3 2012, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First Aid - White and Red Ambulance (since Prime Ratchet is white and orange), basically tryong to make him seem different enough from Ratchet being the biggest issue.


Prime Ratchet is white and red. The CV Ratchet I have is definately red. Dunno of any snazzy distinctive ambulance color schemes offhand, other than Airport Rescue green and the usual White/Red.

Ambulances I've seen in the CT & MA area have been white and red, white and blue, yellow and white, and red and black. So there are a number of colors that could work. I personally would like white and blue.

Randy

#269 Rosicrucian

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Btw, if nothing else, Vortex as a Cybertronian helicopter will clarify even to the strongest doubters that Cybertron does have an atmosphere. (I wonder why some people were doubting it even after we have been introduced to Springer...
Or, you know, Obsidian who has verifiably flown on Cybertron.

#270 CORVUS

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:45 AM

QUOTE(Database @ Feb 4 2012, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I always liked the deco of my local Police cars:



But it looks like Silver/bluestreak as a cop car...

I've always liked our State Police interceptor deco here in WV myself:



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#271 Magick

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:00 AM

QUOTE(Cheetimus Primal @ Feb 4 2012, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Feb 4 2012, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Cheetimus Primal @ Feb 4 2012, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
slavish to every original altmode just because is intensely boring and limits creativity.


For me it's a part of their physical make up. You might as well be saying "Wolverine being a short white guy with dark hair is intensely boring and limits creativity" and you'd be right in the sense that it sets definition to what he is and what he's not, but defining him is part of establishing a character.

But I'm not trying to argue you over to my way of thinking. If alt mode doesn't matter to you that's fine, just saying that, for me, it's important enough that I would have absolutely zero interest in seeing the Technobots done from forms so very different as the Combaticons.


-ZacWilliam, just does not work for me personally even as a concept.

Since there is no animosity I have no issue with debating this honestly.
Which is why I'm going to call your Wolverine reference a strawman.
Wolverine is a person. He looks the way he looks and changing that drastically just makes no sense. But TFs are known for changing their altmodes and changing appearance is kinda their schtick. Different altmodes for TFs are like different gear and uniforms for humans. And lord knows Wolverine has changed his uniform plenty over the years.


Kind of, sort of showing a variation is the recent Wolverine anime on G4. He's still white with the claws, but in this iteration he's taller and much leaner. The face isn't full of rage and he doesn't have all the hair. It's still Wolverine, but different. I admit I'm partial to the more common depiction as seen in Wolverine and the X-Men.

I still have a bit of hold-over from G1 regarding the alt mode being related to the character. However the movie concept of scanning pretty much any vehicle has made me more open to other alt modes for popular characters. Well, that and the glorious GI Joe crossover designs. icon-hotrod.gif

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#272 Esser-Z

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder where Bruticus' double backpack-guns will come from - in the FOC intro he has them, but WFC Onslaught only has small guns on his back.

Brawl sure has a pair of big ol' double guns...


Though those do show up on the leg, the ones there seem sorter than the ones on the toy.

Edited by Esser-Z, 04 February 2012 - 10:13 AM.


#273 Hecate

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

I wonder if G1 Bruticus' back got sore from having to bend over to fire his back guns all the time.

Or maybe they're anti-directly-overhead-air cannons.

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#274 Walky

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE(Esser-Z @ Feb 4 2012, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder where Bruticus' double backpack-guns will come from - in the FOC intro he has them, but WFC Onslaught only has small guns on his back.

Brawl sure has a pair of big ol' double guns...


In the FOC intro, Bruticus only has the shoulder spikes we already see on the toy. Those aren't guns on his back, but the spikes on his shoulders.

In that same intro, we see Brawl's cannons remain on Bruticus's knee.

#275 Esser-Z

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE(Hora Hora @ Feb 4 2012, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder if G1 Bruticus' back got sore from having to bend over to fire his back guns all the time.

Or maybe they're anti-directly-overhead-air cannons.

If they aim forward a bit, they could be ballistic artillery!

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Feb 4 2012, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Esser-Z @ Feb 4 2012, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder where Bruticus' double backpack-guns will come from - in the FOC intro he has them, but WFC Onslaught only has small guns on his back.

Brawl sure has a pair of big ol' double guns...


In the FOC intro, Bruticus only has the shoulder spikes we already see on the toy. Those aren't guns on his back, but the spikes on his shoulders.

In that same intro, we see Brawl's cannons remain on Bruticus's knee.

I edited my post, heh, but you're right.

Edited by Esser-Z, 04 February 2012 - 10:15 AM.


#276 Magick

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Feb 4 2012, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Esser-Z @ Feb 4 2012, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder where Bruticus' double backpack-guns will come from - in the FOC intro he has them, but WFC Onslaught only has small guns on his back.

Brawl sure has a pair of big ol' double guns...


In the FOC intro, Bruticus only has the shoulder spikes we already see on the toy. Those aren't guns on his back, but the spikes on his shoulders.

In that same intro, we see Brawl's cannons remain on Bruticus's knee.


So the concept art posted above is different than how he looks in the actual game? The concept art posted shows the backpack guns.
How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage?

#277 Mr Smitt

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Feb 4 2012, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Esser-Z @ Feb 4 2012, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Feb 4 2012, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder where Bruticus' double backpack-guns will come from - in the FOC intro he has them, but WFC Onslaught only has small guns on his back.

Brawl sure has a pair of big ol' double guns...


In the FOC intro, Bruticus only has the shoulder spikes we already see on the toy. Those aren't guns on his back, but the spikes on his shoulders.

In that same intro, we see Brawl's cannons remain on Bruticus's knee.

When the camera pans out for Bruticus's frontal-shot he pretty clearly has a pair of cannons on his back, like in the concept art. They just seem to pop out of no-where

#278 Dake

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE(NightViper @ Feb 4 2012, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Chip @ Feb 4 2012, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Quantumhawk @ Feb 3 2012, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All this talk about Hasbro remolding these or Botcon reusing these...have you guys forgotten the rules? I was under the impression molds of anything used in the game were under strict licensing agreements, meaning off limits for the club and probably not available for remolding unless planned and executed relatively quickly after the debut of the line (see Cliffjumper).

I'm pretty sure that was just for the movie games, and then only because those designs were kinda mixed up with Dreamworks. I don't think Hasbro will ever get into that situation again if they can help it.



Of course with an outside studio involved in designing the characters, IP ownership isn't the only thing that can put an end to potential repaints. If there's a deal where the studio gets a cut of toy sales, that could prevent Fun Pub toys just as easily.

So while I have no doubts that Hasbro owns the designs here (which is probably why IDW can use them for non-WfC comics), having to send a portion of all sales to High Moon could easily make toys too expensive to produce for Fun Pub.

In a similar vein didn't Hasbro once say that about movie toys when asked in a Q/A? Something to the effect of, "Oh, we own everything TF related and we can do what we want but not exactly..."

As for alt-mode identity here's my worth-less-than-two-cents:

For me it seems there is a fine line between reimagining and simply renaming. We have Grimlock primarily as a tank or a two-legged-robo-dino. Now, he's also been a Mustang, but he still had a "Grimlock" head and it was explained in the fiction and thanks to that head it was easier to "accept" he was still Grimlock. Most any TF fan could look at the silver Alternators Mustang and see - oh, that's Grimlock. But if they came out with a toy that turned into an airplane, had goggles for eyes instead of a visor and a mouth instead of a faceplate and named him Grimlock we'd all howl "WHY?"

Now I do agree, many of the gestalt limbs on the whole don't have much personality or what they do have may not be tied directly to their altmode but I'd postulate that makes it more important to try and have some consistency with their earlier appearances simply because otherwise it's just another generic robot to which Hasbro tacked a name.

So for me, as awesome as this Bruticus should be - simply repainting him in different colors and calling him Computron would really feel like a cop-out.
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#279 OrionPax44

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:11 AM

Im so mad that I am just now seeing these pics. I now know where some of my money is going this year. Wasn't quite sure a couple of days ago. DAMN he looks nice

The kid is smart the kid is clever. Stomping in Jack-o-lantern's weather

 

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#280 Noprobsrobs

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:52 PM

That Swindle head has got to go. I think I have a busted animated Swindle somewhere. I wonder if that'll fit.




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