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@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 02:20 AM)

Why do you hate yourself?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (24 August 2016 - 12:45 AM)

I still need to read everything after Vol. 1 of RG1...

@  Telly : (23 August 2016 - 11:47 PM)

i really wouldve liked to see rg1 pick up where the marvel run left off (or just a couple years after), instead of jumping 20 years. i wanna see how shit went down on earth

@  Dracula : (23 August 2016 - 09:54 PM)

After RG1, I'd just as soon have nobody ever touch the marvel continuity again


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23 replies to this topic

#1 Repugnus

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:26 PM

And here I was starting to think we'd never get to see what Zeta Prime looks like!

http://www.comicbook...review&id=11334

#2 Creedence

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:45 PM

"Jihauxus"?

#3 Repugnus

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE(Creedence @ Jan 31 2012, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Jihauxus"?


At least they're always innovating new ways to misspell his name.

Who knows, maybe it'll get fixed for the release. I imagine it's probably a lot easier to tweak these kinds of things even at the last minute when the distribution is exclusively digital.

But anyway, am I the only one confused by Starscream being a delegate? It's been a while since I've read Megatron: Origin, but I seem to recall he outed himself as a Decepticon before the senate, and since that would've happened way back when Sentinal Prime was still alive, wouldn't his status as a Decepticon be well known by the time Zeta Prime showed up?

Edited by Repugnus, 31 January 2012 - 07:07 PM.


#4 Wildwade

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE(Repugnus @ Jan 31 2012, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Creedence @ Jan 31 2012, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Jihauxus"?


But anyway, am I the only one confused by Starscream being a delegate? It's been a while since I've read Megatron: Origin, but I seem to recall he outed himself as a Decepticon before the senate, and since that would've happened way back when Sentinal Prime was still alive, wouldn't his status as a Decepticon be well known by the time Zeta Prime showed up?


Livio Ramondelli said over on the IDW boards that it'll be explored in issue 3.

Plus, that was only Kaon's council, of whom Starscream murdered every possible witness.

Edited by Wildwade, 31 January 2012 - 07:19 PM.


#5 Creedence

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:25 PM

Speaking of Sentinel, I'm confused by Zeta referring to Nominus as his predecessor and as the one who failed to stop the rebellion, when that was explicitly Sentinel's role in Megatron Origin.

#6 Octavius Prime

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:31 PM

Yeah. It all seems like another continuity mess. At least the art is good here (I think).

#7 Xaaron

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Repugnus @ Jan 31 2012, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Creedence @ Jan 31 2012, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Jihauxus"?


At least they're always innovating new ways to misspell his name.

Who knows, maybe it'll get fixed for the release. I imagine it's probably a lot easier to tweak these kinds of things even at the last minute when the distribution is exclusively digital.

But anyway, am I the only one confused by Starscream being a delegate? It's been a while since I've read Megatron: Origin, but I seem to recall he outed himself as a Decepticon before the senate, and since that would've happened way back when Sentinal Prime was still alive, wouldn't his status as a Decepticon be well known by the time Zeta Prime showed up?


Cybertronian politics have always been a bit murky, but is it really any different than being a Soviet ambassador to the United Nations during the 80's, the President of Iran making a fuss on the UN floor, or an African warlord guilty of massive human rights violations still touring New York with diplomatic plates? Cybertron IS an entire world...how much pull does Iacon really have following the occupation of Kaon? Or a military coup in Vos and Tarn? In the real world, we love to throw around the phrase "terrorist state" these days, but as long as it's a recognized legitimate government, a Decepticon state in Kaon might still get a delegate on the Senate floor. And then there's the idea that the Senate has to tolerate Starscream, but the Prime does not.

It's pretty interesting all around, and I'd love a deeper look into Cybertronian political science, especially in the eary days of the war.

#8 BB Shockwave

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:39 AM

QUOTE(Repugnus @ Feb 1 2012, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But anyway, am I the only one confused by Starscream being a delegate? It's been a while since I've read Megatron: Origin, but I seem to recall he outed himself as a Decepticon before the senate, and since that would've happened way back when Sentinal Prime was still alive, wouldn't his status as a Decepticon be well known by the time Zeta Prime showed up?


Not to mention him killing the whole council, kidnapping that senator Decimus and multiple other atroctities, in Megatron: Origin...

Also, is that Zeta Prime on the cover? That head looks like the unholy union of Boba Fett and Magneto topped with Unicron's horns. We get it, artist... he's corrupt and probably evil. Geez...

Edited by BB Shockwave, 01 February 2012 - 04:46 AM.

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#9 Cat

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:06 AM

So they're basically giving away half the issue for free?

Nice one.
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#10 G1MarvelBlaster

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:22 AM

It does seem weird giving away 3 of the 8 story pages for free. I will say that Ramondelli's art suits this series much better than it did Chaos. The page of Orion Pax/Ultra Magnus sparring looks magnificent.

And am I the only one who get's a slight Death's Head vibe from Zeta Prime's appearance? I think it's the horns.

Nominus was crowbarred in between Sentinel and Zeta in Chaos Theory if I recall my admonitions from last issue's threads, right? I take it this means we haven't had a good look at what Nominus might look like.

Any speculation on what any of the pre-Optimus Prime's alt-modes might be? No really visible vehicle kibble on Zeta.

#11 Xaaron

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:58 AM

No, Chaos Theory placed Nominus in-between Nova and Sentinel. The current line of Primes in IDW is:

Nova Prime - Spotlight: Optimus Prime, 11 million years ago, reign ended with launch of the Ark
Nominus Prime - Chaos Theory, responsible for apartheid, target of assassination attempt, survival unknown
Sentinel Prime - Megatron: Origin, active at start of the war, survival of Kaon uprising uncertain
Zeta Prime - Spotlight: Blurr, active in the early days of the war, target of assassination attempt, survival unknown
Optimus Prime - The Big Red Truck, rise unchronicled, currently resigned and AWOL
Rodimus (Prime)

#12 Cat

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:01 AM

It's up for sale.
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#13 Cat

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:31 AM

I didn't mind the first issue. Quite enjoyed it, to be honest.

This issue though, was dreadful. I wish I had the useless 99 cents back, it's that bad.

Villainy on the level of cartoon Megatron, what appears to be two editing errors (one minor, the Jhiaxus thing, and the larger one, I THINK, is that some dialogue is missing from the Nominus/Starscream talk. Nominus challenged him to repeat what he just said, only SS hadn't said anything. I don't know it could be intentional in any way, something is missing), and then even more stupidity from Starscream to create a diversion, again, one of cartoon level stupidity (blow the cover of a useful ally you bought in...brilliant)

The art looked good. The story was woeful. 3/10

Remember old IDW? The one that did crappy Transformers comics? Yeah. This seems like their kind of thing.

Edited by Cat, 01 February 2012 - 11:34 AM.

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#14 Bass X0

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

Its 99 cents. I paid more for candy that I found out I didn't like.

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#15 General Tekno

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

QUOTE(Cat @ Feb 1 2012, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't mind the first issue. Quite enjoyed it, to be honest.

This issue though, was dreadful. I wish I had the useless 99 cents back, it's that bad.

Villainy on the level of cartoon Megatron, what appears to be two editing errors (one minor, the Jhiaxus thing, and the larger one, I THINK, is that some dialogue is missing from the Nominus/Starscream talk. Nominus challenged him to repeat what he just said, only SS hadn't said anything. I don't know it could be intentional in any way, something is missing), and then even more stupidity from Starscream to create a diversion, again, one of cartoon level stupidity (blow the cover of a useful ally you bought in...brilliant)

The art looked good. The story was woeful. 3/10

Remember old IDW? The one that did crappy Transformers comics? Yeah. This seems like their kind of thing.


Starscream DID say something. The Comixology version is just broken in that it cuts it off unless you're viewing the entire page.

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#16 Cat

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:03 PM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Feb 1 2012, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its 99 cents. I paid more for candy that I found out I didn't like.


Oh I know it's a miserly amount, that's why I said 'useless 99 cents'.

I just really did not like this. This is the Metzen I was happy to not see in the first instalment.

And thanks for that, Tekno. I'm reading from my iPhone, so never use full page view. Thanks for correcting me on that.
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#17 Cat

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE(Xaaron @ Feb 1 2012, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, Chaos Theory placed Nominus in-between Nova and Sentinel. The current line of Primes in IDW is:

Nova Prime - Spotlight: Optimus Prime, 11 million years ago, reign ended with launch of the Ark
Nominus Prime - Chaos Theory, responsible for apartheid, target of assassination attempt, survival unknown
Sentinel Prime - Megatron: Origin, active at start of the war, survival of Kaon uprising uncertain
Zeta Prime - Spotlight: Blurr, active in the early days of the war, target of assassination attempt, survival unknown
Optimus Prime - The Big Red Truck, rise unchronicled, currently resigned and AWOL
Rodimus (Prime)


I think IDW may be going the WFC route. And is now counting Sentinel and Zeta as the same person. Just my thought, probably wrong. (not sure how to place it, otherwise)
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#18 General Tekno

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE(Cat @ Feb 1 2012, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Feb 1 2012, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its 99 cents. I paid more for candy that I found out I didn't like.


Oh I know it's a miserly amount, that's why I said 'useless 99 cents'.

I just really did not like this. This is the Metzen I was happy to not see in the first instalment.

And thanks for that, Tekno. I'm reading from my iPhone, so never use full page view. Thanks for correcting me on that.

No worries; read it on my iPhone too, went "whaaa?", then noticed a cutoff speech balloon.

And honestly, I don't mind this. We're basically getting a Zeta Prime who's more interested in the symptoms of the problem than the problem itself. The dude's very much Megatron, from the ideological standpoint of "might makes right".

I sorta hope we get to see Megatron personally thank Zeta at some point in the story.

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#19 General Tekno

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE(Cat @ Feb 1 2012, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Xaaron @ Feb 1 2012, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, Chaos Theory placed Nominus in-between Nova and Sentinel. The current line of Primes in IDW is:

Nova Prime - Spotlight: Optimus Prime, 11 million years ago, reign ended with launch of the Ark
Nominus Prime - Chaos Theory, responsible for apartheid, target of assassination attempt, survival unknown
Sentinel Prime - Megatron: Origin, active at start of the war, survival of Kaon uprising uncertain
Zeta Prime - Spotlight: Blurr, active in the early days of the war, target of assassination attempt, survival unknown
Optimus Prime - The Big Red Truck, rise unchronicled, currently resigned and AWOL
Rodimus (Prime)


I think IDW may be going the WFC route. And is now counting Sentinel and Zeta as the same person. Just my thought, probably wrong. (not sure how to place it, otherwise)


If that's the case, might I postulate that this actually works if Sentinel got heavily rebuilt after Megatron Origin's aftermath and took a new name?

Plus, that beating he took would be enough to drive anyone to "do whatever it takes".

Only problem with the idea is that he'd probably know who Starscream was, then. And it's implied there's no survivors from Kaon to finger him as the perp who offed Kaon's senate.

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#20 Repugnus

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE(G1MarvelBlaster @ Feb 1 2012, 07:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I take it this means we haven't had a good look at what Nominus might look like.


We got a glimpse of his Nominus Prime's face on a monitor in part two of Chaos Theory, and then Alex Milne posted a full view of his full character design over at his Deviantart page:

http://markerguru.de...set=24#/d46wxhr



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