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Transformers Prime First Edition


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#221 Phlis

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE(^0^CORVUS^o^ @ Jan 30 2012, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Daytonus @ Jan 30 2012, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't see why anyone would fault BBTS for hyping something they thought was true. It's like getting mad at somebody for inviting you to their wedding after they got stood up at the altar.

Indeed. While I'm annoyed about passing up stuff because I had pre-orders at BBTS and also agree they have mishandled this on their part to a degree, they didn't turn these toys down. They had the rug pulled out from under them via Hasbro.


Can't really blame BBTS for your own mistake. If I have a BBTS preorder and I see a toy at retail I automatically pick it up because it's going to be cheaper. The mistake here was BBTS wasn't able to get pre-orders to Hasbro early enough. Hasbro sent all of Wave 1.5 and the Voyagers to Canada, and if they had any over stock there, maybe they offered it to BBTS and TFSource and such who declined paying shipping from Canada to the US. But thats just a theory.

QUOTE(Sprocket @ Jan 30 2012, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Collector-oriented characters with no substantial modern media presence in a dead size class?

Not really comparable.


Blackout, Wing Blade Prime, the Animated Deluxe repaints. Yes the line was at the end, not the beginning, and not as popular as it could be due to the movies, but we're never seeing those toys at US retail, ever. Again, if Prime gets into an Armada situation, and Hasbro scrambles for molds to fill the shelves, I see it. But they're producing a lot of toys for Prime. I want it to happen, but I just don't see it.



#222 ExVee

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:16 PM

BBTS is stuck in the middle between irate customers and a supplier who's pulled the product. Although it was shady to start with when BBTS first named a list of major retailers that were not carrying the line and spinning that to drive up their own pre-sales, it's not as though they had any expectation of never receiving most of that stock. The way a lot of people are wanting to run with this right now makes it sound like they think BBTS set out to screw people out of toys they wanted, and that couldn't be more ridiculous. Plus, they're automatically giving existing pre-order holders first shot at the new ones, and from the sound of it, continuing to honor the original pricing where it's lower than the current prices. It might not be what you want, but they're doing everything they're able to in order to help smooth this over. They could just as easily drop all the standing pre-orders and say "not our fault!", because it's not their fault, and leave everyone to have to get in line all over again. And I don't see how anyone can reasonably expect them to try to fill these orders with Japanese product. Even if they had any to give right now, they'd take a loss trying to fulfill them at the US prices. And if they offered pre-order slots but with a price increase to account for the difference, people would start flipping their jive about that, then. They're in an unwinnable situation here. Their customer service reputation is going to be damaged, people are already talking about taking business elsewhere, and it's all for something BBTS didn't even DO. Do tell me, what purpose will denying BBTS business serve in response to a situation they had zero control over?

And as an addendum, what makes anyone think BBTS even knows there's a difference between the products right now? These aren't dedicated Transformers fans who are going and reading posts and watching videos about the toys. They have their order sheets, and whenever the stuff comes in stock someone may handle them for product photography, but that's about it. So yeah, in a case like the Voyager substitution, they know Megatron is not Bulkhead, but why should they think there's a material difference between two toys called Voyager Optimus, or Deluxe Cliffjumper? To think they know your preferences between the toy lines or that a difference even exists beyond the branding is more than a little self-absorbed.

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QUOTE(ShinRa Inc @ Jan 30 2012, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So while I COULD have gotten Starscream at retail, and I COULD have gotten the rest from eBay or a Canadian before everything sold out, I'm now SOL.

That is on BBTS.


No, as you pointed out one line above, you had other opportunities to obtain these figures. You chose not to take advantage of them. That is on you. BBTS wasn't holding your money. There was nothing to stop you from pursuing those toys elsewhere and dropping your preorders when you had all you wanted. Unless you'd like to tell me how BBTS actively prevented you from buying toys elsewhere until everything was gone?



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#223 dcjosh

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:17 PM

w00t. found a guy in canadia who managed to nab me a cliffjumper and one of the last bulkheads

*hedbangz*

Edited by God Fire Convoy, 30 January 2012 - 01:17 PM.


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#224 SteamPunk Astrotrain

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:28 PM

Does anyone even know, why the First Edition toys were yanked? I'm just curious if it was a production problem, or some stupid bean counter told them, they weren't getting enough orders for it to be worth the cost of creating the molds in the first place. Too, it's so rare for an entire sub-line to be completely canceled, that I'm surprised Hasbro isn't being more open about the whole thing.
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#225 tec

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:33 PM

Yep just as I feared would happen

Saying I told you so hurts to. cos we are all out of the TFs we wanted and now theres no way to get thim at close to retail there scalper bait for the rest of there lives
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#226 Solarstorm

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE(Robogeek1973 @ Jan 30 2012, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Solarstorm @ Jan 30 2012, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Robogeek1973 @ Jan 30 2012, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Got my e-mail for the Voyagers and Deluxes and promptly deleted the orders. If I can't have the superior FE figs then I have absolutely no need for the RID ones because I just won't bother with the line now. If I can find the FE figs I want for a DECENT price, then I'll start buying RID.


Good news for the voyagers, at least.

We know the FE Voyager Prime mold will come back. There were pictures at a Japanese toy show of a darker colored FE Prime with a silver stripe on the shoulder, ala - G1. It was in the pics with the new mold minicon targetmasters.

Bulkhead is uncertain, but BBTS has a preorder up for next month. It's $50, but it's the Takara version and those are always a bit more.


I'd forgotten about that Prime so I'll hafta preorder him, but that Voyager Bulkhead will probably be the new mold with the same kind of gimmicks the RID Voyagers seem to have.


The Bulkhead is a restock of the released Japanese one w/ the darker green.

"Japan Color Exclusive - Bulkhead - Takara First Edition"

Unfortunately...upon checking again, the preorder is sold out. I'm guessing a bunch of people who got screwed on the US version jumped on the new preorders. I'm glad I got in before it was too late.

Edited by Solarstorm, 30 January 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#227 Nanite

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:40 PM

QUOTE(NightViper @ Jan 30 2012, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(LV! @ Jan 30 2012, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Goblez @ Jan 30 2012, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought at Botcon they said the repaints of Wheeljack and Soundwave in DOTM will be in the RiD line

Umpteenth Bumblebee/White Ratchet/G1 Wheeljack/Black Soundwave are wave one of the new Movie Trilogy line, or they were as of BotCon.


They were also "Movie Trilogy Line" during the slide show at NYCC.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, the last wave of DOTM deluxes (Soundwave, Wheeljack) never made it to US shores?

What I want to take from all this is that Hasbro is trying to tighten the Transformers brand with RiD, and part of the execution on that is leaving collectors hanging in the breeze.
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#228 CORVUS

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Jan 30 2012, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can't really blame BBTS for your own mistake. If I have a BBTS preorder and I see a toy at retail I automatically pick it up because it's going to be cheaper.

I didn't see them at retail TO pass them up, largely because they (being the Voyagers) didn't hit retail here in the states. Therefore your assessment is off.

QUOTE(Phlis @ Jan 30 2012, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But thats just a theory.

No, that's conjecture, not a theory.

Edited by ^0^CORVUS^o^, 30 January 2012 - 02:08 PM.


#229 Quantumhawk

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:42 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Jan 30 2012, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The mistake here was BBTS wasn't able to get pre-orders to Hasbro early enough. Hasbro sent all of Wave 1.5 and the Voyagers to Canada, and if they had any over stock there, maybe they offered it to BBTS and TFSource and such who declined paying shipping from Canada to the US. But thats just a theory.



No offense but I'm pretty sure you don't understand how pre-orders and stock delivery work. BBTS has had preorders up since, I don't know, October? Earlier, maybe? And no, Hasbro didn't send stock to Canadian TRU stores and then offer the leftovers to US retailers.

#230 Solarstorm

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:44 PM

QUOTE(Quantumhawk @ Jan 30 2012, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Phlis @ Jan 30 2012, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The mistake here was BBTS wasn't able to get pre-orders to Hasbro early enough. Hasbro sent all of Wave 1.5 and the Voyagers to Canada, and if they had any over stock there, maybe they offered it to BBTS and TFSource and such who declined paying shipping from Canada to the US. But thats just a theory.



No offense but I'm pretty sure you don't understand how pre-orders and stock delivery work. BBTS has had preorders up since, I don't know, October? Earlier, maybe? And no, Hasbro didn't send stock to Canadian TRU stores and then offer the leftovers to US retailers.


I believe I preordered Prime and Bulkhead the day the preorders began. My preorder was listed as November 8th. I just canceled it last night.
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#231 NightViper

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:45 PM

Well, we're getting FE Starscream with what seems to be FE BB in an Entertainment Pack in the main line. With Silas and a MECH Trooper.

An Arcee with Cliffjumper would seem to fit the concept too, no? Maybe with seated Sadie or Jack?

And Terrorcon Cliffjumper vs. Vehicon would definitely fit as well.

I mean, I'm not going to get my hopes up, but this really does seem like a way to get these toys to retail without worrying about putting two Deluxe Cliffjumpers out on shelves. As for Bulkhead... I have to imagine they're going to reuse that mold somehow. It's just too good not to reuse.



#232 Quantumhawk

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:47 PM

QUOTE(SteamPunk Astrotrain @ Jan 30 2012, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone even know, why the First Edition toys were yanked? I'm just curious if it was a production problem, or some stupid bean counter told them, they weren't getting enough orders for it to be worth the cost of creating the molds in the first place. Too, it's so rare for an entire sub-line to be completely canceled, that I'm surprised Hasbro isn't being more open about the whole thing.


No one knows yet other than speculation. My suspicion is that it's a complication of the First Edition toys coming later than expected and the RID stuff coming earlier than expected. Hasbro would rather focus on a mass-market product which is produced in higher quantities. If the First Edition stuff got held up for *any* reason, which seems likely, then they would probably prefer to sell you their mass-market Cliffjumper than their First Edition Cliffjumper. Seems weird to us not to try to sell existing product, but there are a lot of business factors which play into the decisions like these.

QUOTE(Solarstorm @ Jan 30 2012, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe I preordered Prime and Bulkhead the day the preorders began. My preorder was listed as November 8th. I just canceled it last night.


Thanks. Either way, BBTS didn't fail to put up preorders in time to meet Hasbro's stock requirements. I'm sure they put those preorders up as soon as Hasbro let them. There's evidence that they sometimes put up preorders *before* Hasbro lets them or confirms the case assortments.

Edited by Quantumhawk, 30 January 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#233 NightViper

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:49 PM

QUOTE(Quantumhawk @ Jan 30 2012, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Phlis @ Jan 30 2012, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The mistake here was BBTS wasn't able to get pre-orders to Hasbro early enough. Hasbro sent all of Wave 1.5 and the Voyagers to Canada, and if they had any over stock there, maybe they offered it to BBTS and TFSource and such who declined paying shipping from Canada to the US. But thats just a theory.



No offense but I'm pretty sure you don't understand how pre-orders and stock delivery work. BBTS has had preorders up since, I don't know, October? Earlier, maybe? And no, Hasbro didn't send stock to Canadian TRU stores and then offer the leftovers to US retailers.


I'll repeat, the only thing in Canadian TRUs that have had US packaging were the Entertainment Packs. Everyone else, Deluxe and Voyager, have had the usual Canadian packaging.

So unless you're keen on suggesting that they shipped everything to Canada, then paid someone to open the thousands of leftovers and repackage them into US packaging, that theory just doesn't work out.


#234 LV!

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE(Nanite @ Jan 30 2012, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, the last wave of DOTM deluxes (Soundwave, Wheeljack) never made it to US shores?

We haven't seen them yet. I'm inclined to say that means they'll show up the same way the last waves of ROTF, 2010 and PCC did: through some odd outlet at a later date.

Of course, I also don't think all the First Edition toys in the world ever are gone and TRU said and BBTS said and Hasbro said and blaaaaaaagh, so maybe I'm too optimistic.

#235 Quantumhawk

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:58 PM

QUOTE(LV! @ Jan 30 2012, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course, I also don't think all the First Edition toys in the world ever are gone and TRU said and BBTS said and Hasbro said and blaaaaaaagh, so maybe I'm too optimistic.


Correct. All of this is based on two online retailers (BBTS and TFSource) reporting that Hasbro canceled their preorders for reasons which have not been made clear, and the fact that US Toys'R'Us stores have not restocked Wave 1 Deluxes and have not stocked Voyagers or further Deluxe waves. However, we know that those same stores haven't really stocked much of *anything* recently as it's been their inventory season (a notoriously bare time for restocks). Now they are starting to stock RID toys, so people are making an assumption that no more FE toys are coming.

While I share the pessimism I'm also secretly hoping that FE toys magically start appearing in a month or two and everyone can get what they want.

#236 Nanite

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE(SteamPunk Astrotrain @ Jan 30 2012, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone even know, why the First Edition toys were yanked? I'm just curious if it was a production problem, or some stupid bean counter told them, they weren't getting enough orders for it to be worth the cost of creating the molds in the first place. Too, it's so rare for an entire sub-line to be completely canceled, that I'm surprised Hasbro isn't being more open about the whole thing.


No, and we probably never will.

Did the Prime cartoon debut on time? That could have been a factor too. There's more going on then just the usual Hasbro-Production-Distribution-Retailer influences, there's the whole HUB launch, and the standardized Prime universe.

What I'm trying to get at is that FE and RiD represent two different directions for the line as a whole. FE is pretty standard Transformers as we've known them since classics: Deluxes, Voyagers, Entertainment Pack, no gimmicks.

RiD renames the classes, they all have energon weapons, Voyagers have an electronic gimmick, and there's a heavy focus on Cyberverse.

There's a lot in play that likely made this situation.

Edit: Quantumhawk said it better.

Edited by Nanite, 30 January 2012 - 02:14 PM.

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#237 SwiftEagle

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:23 PM

Entertainment Earth:
QUOTE
Thank you for ordering from Entertainment Earth. We have been notified by
the manufacturer that we will not be receiving any additional shipments of
Transformers Prime Voyager Bulkhead and Optimus Prime Set, (Item
HT36490AS), because they have discontinued production of this item at this
point in time. The item has been removed from your order.


I think the reason people are kind of steamed at BBTS is just the whole thing where they seemingly intentionally misled customers to make them panic and think the First Edition figures weren't coming out in brick-and-mortar stores at all, by selectively leaving TRU out of their list of "You won't be able to find them HERE, so you'd better order now!" names. That was a little skeezy, and if they hadn't done it, I think you'd see a lot less angry people and a lot more who understand that BBTS had the rug yanked out from under them by Hasbro, too.
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#238 ShinRa Inc

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE(ExVee @ Jan 30 2012, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(ShinRa Inc @ Jan 30 2012, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So while I COULD have gotten Starscream at retail, and I COULD have gotten the rest from eBay or a Canadian before everything sold out, I'm now SOL.

That is on BBTS.


No, as you pointed out one line above, you had other opportunities to obtain these figures. You chose not to take advantage of them. That is on you. BBTS wasn't holding your money. There was nothing to stop you from pursuing those toys elsewhere and dropping your preorders when you had all you wanted. Unless you'd like to tell me how BBTS actively prevented you from buying toys elsewhere until everything was gone?


I had the opportunity to get ONE figure at local retail. BBTS was telling me they'd supply the whole wave. I listened to BBTS. I now have nothing. Why should anyone who has items on preorder assume it won't be filled, and start pestering Canadians to find things for them?

I don't order things from BBTS because of their competitive pricing. I order things from BBTS because it means I actually get the product I order.
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#239 ExVee

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:29 PM

Fair enough, Swift. But I also think BBTS had a good faith belief that Hasbro would deliver adequate inventory to them so they could fill all the pre-orders that the shady methods would generate. So again, aiming the ire at BBTS feels misplaced. Especially as much as it's being portrayed as BBTS actively doing something to the people who preordered.

QUOTE(ShinRa Inc @ Jan 30 2012, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I had the opportunity to get ONE figure at local retail. BBTS was telling me they'd supply the whole wave. I listened to BBTS. I now have nothing. Why should anyone who has items on preorder assume it won't be filled, and start pestering Canadians to find things for them?

I don't order things from BBTS because of their competitive pricing. I order things from BBTS because it means I actually get the product I order.


And BBTS would have filled your order if Hasbro had supplied the merchandise as expected. But BBTS did not do anything to deprive you of your chances to get the figures you wanted otherwise.

Edited by ExVee, 30 January 2012 - 02:34 PM.



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#240 ShinRa Inc

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE(SwiftEagle @ Jan 30 2012, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the reason people are kind of steamed at BBTS is just the whole thing where they seemingly intentionally misled customers to make them panic and think the First Edition figures weren't coming out in brick-and-mortar stores at all, by selectively leaving TRU out of their list of "You won't be able to find them HERE, so you'd better order now!" names. That was a little skeezy, and if they hadn't done it, I think you'd see a lot less angry people and a lot more who understand that BBTS had the rug yanked out from under them by Hasbro, too.


Pretty much. Usually if BBTS is unsure they're getting an item, they say so. In this case, they basically tried their hardest to get people to panic and preorder from them, with absolutely no hint that there could be problems. And appearently, they've known this since sometime last week, but sat on the news rather than tell their customers, and let them try and pursue other options.

It's backfired terribly on them, and that's mostly Hasbro's fault, but they don't walk off unscathed, as far as I'm concerned. And it's not like kvetching about Hasbro screwing up is going to accomplish anything. BBTS could, in theory, at least make good to their customers on this somehow. Other than pretending to be K-Mart and automatically switching everyone's orders to stuff they don't want.
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