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Institute for Global Labour and Human Rights report on Hasbro claims sweatshop conditions


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#61 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE(Fulcrum @ Dec 19 2011, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(▲ndrusi @ Dec 19 2011, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Enforced in what manner?

Ideally one that works!

Why do you keep asking questions like this? Are you trying to make me admit that I'm not a trained factory inspector?

You seem to be pretty convinced you aren't just asking Hasbro to wave their magic wand and fix everything, and I'm trying to figure out what you are asking Hasbro to do.

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#62 Strafe

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE(Fulcrum @ Dec 19 2011, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Strafe @ Dec 19 2011, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder how many complaints submitted here were made possible by devices and means that were constructed under similar conditions. Things less frivolous than toys. iPHONE FACTORY WORKERS COMMITTING SUICIDE If they were similarly built, would you stop using them?

It's a false equivalence (toys are luxury items not tools) but yes it still stands, and we should also be demanding ethical practices from those companies too. Why not?


Is it? Have you seen some of the useless crap you can do with an iPhone? If I wanted something that fit a simple necessity, like an actual tool would, I'd use one of those caveman flip phones.
It doesn't matter, though. I don't use an iPhone. I just wanted to make a point.

I'll get started on that e-mail, it's the least that I can do.

[Edit: Made my link bold and more visible.]

Edited by Strafe, 19 December 2011 - 06:24 PM.


#63 Fulcrum

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:03 PM

QUOTE(▲ndrusi @ Dec 19 2011, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You seem to be pretty convinced you aren't just asking Hasbro to wave their magic wand and fix everything, and I'm trying to figure out what you are asking Hasbro to do.


I'm asking Hasbro to hold their factories to stricter conditions. I've made this pretty clear. It is not my job to work out how this is done. If Hasbro wants to claim that they're an ethical company (and wants my money), then they'll find a way to do this, in a way that does not seriously damage their bottom line.

You seem pretty convinced that basic workers rights are impossible and we shouldn't bother to suggest otherwise!

QUOTE(Strafe @ Dec 19 2011, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it? Have you seen some of the useless crap you can do with an iPhone? If I wanted something that fit a simple necessity, like an actual tool would, I'd use one of those caveman flip phones.


If I was a member of an iPhone fansite when the apple factory news hit, I'd be damn well trying to get people to complain to apple! The electronics industry in general is pretty sketchy, but this is a Transformer fansite so I figured I'd just stick to this issue. icon-blitz.gif

Edited by Fulcrum, 19 December 2011 - 06:07 PM.


QUOTE("X-BoB58")
I'm gonna go off on a limb and say Shipwreck is the most dangerous man on the GIJoe team, what with the constant-threat to the sacred and holy institution of red-blooded American marriage he and his kind represent.

#64 Walky

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:06 PM

I can't stick my nose up at other people for continuing to buy Transformers toys in light of this news, so long as I continue to use any other product bought in a first world country. Look under your keyboard. Does it say "made in China" there? Then quit typing and throw it away, because its manufacturers are also exploiting the way the world works.

It's really simple to get angry at other people for overlooking this problem and going on with their lives. Way more simple than to examine our own more closely. This is a very complicated problem that is way bigger than any individual, and to escape it and be truly able to be blameless enough to cast the first stone, you'd have to destroy everything you own and move into a hut on the side of a hill and grow your own food and make your own clothes. And even then, you still, legally, have to pay taxes into a government that enables this international relationship.

As I said, I can't with good conscience point fingers at other consumers so long as I too am a consumer. That is the reality.

#65 Autobus Prime

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:12 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Dec 19 2011, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't stick my nose up at other people for continuing to buy Transformers toys in light of this news, so long as I continue to use any other product bought in a first world country. Look under your keyboard. Does it say "made in China" there? Then quit typing and throw it away, because its manufacturers are also exploiting the way the world works.


CW:

Still, I'm glad you're angry, and all the other filthy awesome communists of the Allspark. We should be angry. I think everybody here should read the full report. The really infuriating thing is how unnecessary all of it is.

Edited by Autobus Prime, 19 December 2011 - 06:17 PM.





#66 Fulcrum

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:15 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Dec 19 2011, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I said, I can't with good conscience point fingers at other consumers so long as I too am a consumer. That is the reality.


Honestly, I'm not trying to point fingers at people. I'm trying to get people to voice their disaproval, that's all. I'm hoping that Hasbro will become aware that some of their biggest fans don't like the conditions in which their toys are made, and hopefully improving them.

Walky, I thought you of all people would at least want to let Hasbro know that this crap doesn't fly.

QUOTE("X-BoB58")
I'm gonna go off on a limb and say Shipwreck is the most dangerous man on the GIJoe team, what with the constant-threat to the sacred and holy institution of red-blooded American marriage he and his kind represent.

#67 Sheba

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE(Fulcrum @ Dec 19 2011, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Sheba @ Dec 19 2011, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Petitions are great and all, but the important factor is, will China itself listen? Probably not.


Hasbro/Takara-Tomy brings money into the country through investment. Thus they have some degree of leverage, even if it's only on a local level, which may be enough to improve things a little. It's worth trying for!


You're absolutely right. That's a solution for "I want my Hasbro toys to be ethical". That is a goal that is possible.

However in the broader category of "I don't want the Chinese Far Right Conservative sleeping on bedbug mattresses and working 12 hours with hardly any bathroombreaks", the solution there is pretty much Invade China and take over.
Listen, just do what I tell you, and everything will be fine.

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#68 tec

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:17 PM

Yeah I got my own labor issues to deal with icon-fire.gif
Did you know Im exsempt from overtime pay because Im in the entertament industry?
Lets solve our own work related issues first before tackleling someone like Chinas

Not that I care about OT pay my jobs coushy baiscly stress free anyway.

Edited by tec, 19 December 2011 - 06:20 PM.


#69 Dissever

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:19 PM

I sure as hell CAN point fingers at the DEGREE and TYPE of consumption, as well as the degree of indifference exhibited once consumers have been made aware. Absolutism is a shameful tactic.

Making a change, and more iimportantly, COMMUNICATING that change to the supplier, is a damned sight better than slacktivism, and is light years ahead of apathy. Fulcrum, I would be interested in seeing the text of the email you sent, as well as the email address you sent it to.
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#70 Strafe

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:21 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Dec 19 2011, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't stick my nose up at other people for continuing to buy Transformers toys in light of this news, so long as I continue to use any other product bought in a first world country. Look under your keyboard. Does it say "made in China" there? Then quit typing and throw it away, because its manufacturers are also exploiting the way the world works.


This, this is the point that I was trying to make. THIS.

None of us are blameless. I'm not going to stop buying toys. Many systems are corrupt, and this is one of the worst. And, that's pretty damned awful.
I can fire a serious inquiry at Hasbro, and take a few minutes to lament the condition of a country that allows these things to happen on such an enormous scale. A scale that extends well past Transformers. And, then I'll probably fix dinner and go on with my life.

#71 Autobus Prime

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE(Sheba @ Dec 19 2011, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However in the broader category of "I don't want the Chinese Far Right Conservative sleeping on bedbug mattresses and working 12 hours with hardly any bathroombreaks", the solution there is pretty much Invade China and take over.


S:

No, the solution is to say, "institute breaks, disinfect the dorms, serve better food, and clean up your act, or we pull our $$$$$ toyline out of your plant". And then enforce it. Motivated by the public embarassment generated by a widely circulated report, which isn't yet widely circulated. Motivated by common decency.

Which would also result in better quality, because if you hug with people, you hug the quality of your product. I've worked in bottom-feeder shops where they hugged around with people, and that never works. Prices might even go down. Bad quality and rework costs money.


Edited by Autobus Prime, 19 December 2011 - 06:30 PM.





#72 Steevy Maximus

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE(Sheba @ Dec 19 2011, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're absolutely right. That's a solution for "I want my Hasbro toys to be ethical". That is a goal that is possible.

However in the broader category of "I don't want the Chinese Far Right Conservative sleeping on bedbug mattresses and working 12 hours with hardly any bathroombreaks", the solution there is pretty much Invade China and take over.

But then our glorious toys and gadgets wouldn't be dirt cheap. I saw this at other boards: people harking about moving production to "better places", but don't realize to pay what we would consider a decent wage...prices would have to go up.

Considering how much bitching that goes on about Convention stuff, imagine how much you would see if a retail deluxe Transformer was $30 or more!

#73 Fulcrum

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE(Dissever @ Dec 19 2011, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Making a change, and more iimportantly, COMMUNICATING that change to the supplier, is a damned sight better than slacktivism, and is light years ahead of apathy. Fulcrum, I would be interested in seeing the text of the email you sent, as well as the email address you sent it to.

This is the email I sent. I had trouble finding a suitable (or any) email address, so I sent it to askhasbro.co.uk The US site might have better contact details, I don't know.

QUOTE
To whom it may concern

A recent report (readable here - http://www.globallab...s-by-Hasbro.pdf ) has bought to light unethical practices in a factory that supplies Hasbro products. This is a clear violation of your stated ethical guidelines (http://csr.hasbro.com/saf01-our-products.php), not to mention extremely distasteful.

I urge Hasbro to seriously investigate this matter, and deal strictly with any manufacturers that mistreat their staff in this way. While I understand the need for "competitive" pricing, it is no excuse for abuse.

I will be distributing the report as widely as I can. Until improvements are made I will not be purchasing any Hasbro products, and urging others to do the same.


Short and to the point (I am bad at writing emails).

QUOTE("X-BoB58")
I'm gonna go off on a limb and say Shipwreck is the most dangerous man on the GIJoe team, what with the constant-threat to the sacred and holy institution of red-blooded American marriage he and his kind represent.

#74 Lukeblast

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Dec 19 2011, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, support more third parties?

The companies with even less to lose and fewer restrictions are far more likely to be less considerate of the treatment of workers at similar factories.

So... not the time, not the place, not applicable, and not funny.
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#75 Walky

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:28 PM

QUOTE(Fulcrum @ Dec 19 2011, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Dec 19 2011, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I said, I can't with good conscience point fingers at other consumers so long as I too am a consumer. That is the reality.


Honestly, I'm not trying to point fingers at people. I'm trying to get people to voice their disaproval, that's all. I'm hoping that Hasbro will become aware that some of their biggest fans don't like the conditions in which their toys are made, and hopefully improving them.

Walky, I thought you of all people would at least want to let Hasbro know that this crap doesn't fly.


Oh, by all means, tell Hasbro they suck. I'm really glad these whistleblowing reports exist, and I hope they are made as public and as visible as possible. Hasbro should be subjected to some sort of pressure to change, or at least be made aware that this sort of thing matters to us.

I just don't buy into the idea that I can shame other people into feeling exactly the same. Again, I'm typing this on a Made In China keyboard. That knowledge tempers my wrath. "You are an irredeemable bunghole for continuing to buy Transformers toys" is just as intellectually lazy a response as "I don't care if the folks who make my toys are punched in the face with poison gloves, because I really like buying toys." Complicated situations that are larger than us and have eclipsed us all our lives require more, I don't know, finesse.

Quit buying Transformers toys. That is good. Make sure Hasbro knows you've stopped, and why. I just don't think I could, personally, make this an Ethical Superiority thing.

#76 Autobus Prime

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE(Steevy Maximus @ Dec 19 2011, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Sheba @ Dec 19 2011, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're absolutely right. That's a solution for "I want my Hasbro toys to be ethical". That is a goal that is possible.

However in the broader category of "I don't want the Chinese Far Right Conservative sleeping on bedbug mattresses and working 12 hours with hardly any bathroombreaks", the solution there is pretty much Invade China and take over.

But then our glorious toys and gadgets wouldn't be dirt cheap. I saw this at other boards: people harking about moving production to "better places", but don't realize to pay what we would consider a decent wage...prices would have to go up.

Considering how much bitching that goes on about Convention stuff, imagine how much you would see if a retail deluxe Transformer was $30 or more!


SM:

If you made Transformers in the US, with the same production rate, paying $15/hr (cost to employer $22/hr), prices would go up...

Two. Dollars. (Three, minus the CN-US fuel cost, which is money burned up.)

If Jet Fair stopped screwing with their employees, and heck, even doubled the pay rate, the cost increase would be tiny enough to be absorbed by small QC improvements. And even that $2 mentioned above would quickly be wiped out if production were partly streamlined or QC improved.

This stuff is completely unnecessary.

The first thing to do is to go home and make dinner.

The second thing to do is to print out this article and hand it out to everyone we know.


Edited by Autobus Prime, 19 December 2011 - 06:31 PM.





#77 Blueshift

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Dec 19 2011, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't stick my nose up at other people for continuing to buy Transformers toys in light of this news, so long as I continue to use any other product bought in a first world country. Look under your keyboard. Does it say "made in China" there? Then quit typing and throw it away, because its manufacturers are also exploiting the way the world works.


No-one is saying you should live in a mud hut, but there are actual things you can do to make a difference, even if it is just writing an email to Hasbro, rather than shrug and say "oh well, everyone else is doing it, it must be okay."

Personally I would like to believe in the 21st century that companies behave ethically, it isn't really much to ask, but when we find an occasion when they don't, the answer isn't 'do nothing and ignore it'. By all means continue buying things, but make a bit of a fuss as well.

#78 mignash

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE(Autobus Prime @ Dec 19 2011, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Sheba @ Dec 19 2011, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However in the broader category of "I don't want the Chinese Far Right Conservative sleeping on bedbug mattresses and working 12 hours with hardly any bathroombreaks", the solution there is pretty much Invade China and take over.


S:

No, the solution is to say, "institute breaks, disinfect the dorms, serve better food, and clean up your act, or we pull our $$$$$ toyline out of your plant". And then enforce it. Motivated by the public embarassment generated by a widely circulated report, which isn't yet widely circulated. Motivated by common decency.


So, basically you want them to treat the slave labor better? May be nice in the short term, but that doesn't fix the issue.

Edited by mignash, 19 December 2011 - 06:35 PM.


#79 Magick

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:36 PM

QUOTE(Fulcrum @ Dec 19 2011, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Dissever @ Dec 19 2011, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Making a change, and more iimportantly, COMMUNICATING that change to the supplier, is a damned sight better than slacktivism, and is light years ahead of apathy. Fulcrum, I would be interested in seeing the text of the email you sent, as well as the email address you sent it to.

This is the email I sent. I had trouble finding a suitable (or any) email address, so I sent it to askhasbro.co.uk The US site might have better contact details, I don't know.

QUOTE
To whom it may concern

A recent report (readable here - http://www.globallab...s-by-Hasbro.pdf ) has bought to light unethical practices in a factory that supplies Hasbro products. This is a clear violation of your stated ethical guidelines (http://csr.hasbro.com/saf01-our-products.php), not to mention extremely distasteful.

I urge Hasbro to seriously investigate this matter, and deal strictly with any manufacturers that mistreat their staff in this way. While I understand the need for "competitive" pricing, it is no excuse for abuse.

I will be distributing the report as widely as I can. Until improvements are made I will not be purchasing any Hasbro products, and urging others to do the same.


Short and to the point (I am bad at writing emails).


I like it. It was important to provide links to both the report and their own guidelines. Thanks for posting this. It will serve as a good template that we can use for own mails.
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#80 Darkstream

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:38 PM

QUOTE(Autobus Prime @ Dec 19 2011, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Sheba @ Dec 19 2011, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However in the broader category of "I don't want the Chinese Far Right Conservative sleeping on bedbug mattresses and working 12 hours with hardly any bathroombreaks", the solution there is pretty much Invade China and take over.


S:

No, the solution is to say, "institute breaks, disinfect the dorms, serve better food, and clean up your act, or we pull our $$$$$ toyline out of your plant". And then enforce it. Motivated by the public embarassment generated by a widely circulated report, which isn't yet widely circulated. Motivated by common decency.

Which would also result in better quality, because if you hug with people, you hug the quality of your product. I've worked in bottom-feeder shops where they hugged around with people, and that never works. Prices might even go down. Bad quality and rework costs money.

The flaw is that even IF hasbro moved, another company would take its place and the conditions would continue.




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