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@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 02:20 AM)

Why do you hate yourself?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (24 August 2016 - 12:45 AM)

I still need to read everything after Vol. 1 of RG1...

@  Telly : (23 August 2016 - 11:47 PM)

i really wouldve liked to see rg1 pick up where the marvel run left off (or just a couple years after), instead of jumping 20 years. i wanna see how shit went down on earth

@  Dracula : (23 August 2016 - 09:54 PM)

After RG1, I'd just as soon have nobody ever touch the marvel continuity again


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Paypal doesn't believe poor kids to be a worthy cuase.


50 replies to this topic

#1 Shadewing

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:16 AM

Kinda surprised this isn't posted here yet:

http://www.regretsy..../cats-1-kids-0/

They raised a lot of money for toys for poor children this Christmas and Paypal shut them down, twice. And completely froze their assets for six months.

QUOTE
PAYPAL: Only a nonprofit can use the Donate button.
ME: That’s false. It says right in the PDF of instructions for the Donate button that it can be used for “worthy causes.”
PAYPAL: I haven’t seen that PDF. And what you’re doing is not a worthy cause, it’s charity.
ME: What’s the difference?
PAYPAL: You can use the donate button to raise money for a sick cat, but not poor people.


Also a blog on just how wrong they are, using their own policies: http://thegreengeeks...r-own-policies/

Edited by Database, 06 December 2011 - 11:21 AM.

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#2 Dissever

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:40 AM

They pulled similar stunts with Penny Arcade's Child's Play program, and Something Awful's donation drive for Katrina's victims. Once done with a pending transaction, I will be closing my account and looking at alternatives like Dwolla, Google Checkout, and Amazon Payments.

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#3 Dissever

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:54 AM

Of course, given the upper management's Randian ideals of no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons, I guess it's less surprising that they'd have such a hate-on for charity.

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#4 Mark Pellegrini

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:15 PM

How often does PayPal have to deal with fake donation drives being done via their accounts? Is it an epidemic that would force them to take such paranoid precautions?

At the very least, you'd think they'd put more effort into investigating the legitimacy of some of these charities they're shutting down before... shutting them down.


On a personal level, I've had my irritations with Paypal. I recently sold some items on eBay, but since my printer was out of ink, I opted to buy the shipping labels from the post office instead of through eBay. Shipped the items, e-mailed the buyer the tracking number, items got there on time, he left me positive feedback, end of story.

Paypal then put a hold on all incoming funds on my account due to "suspicious activity". I had to e-mail them to find out what that activity was. Turns out, not buying shipping labels from eBay counts as "suspicious activity". Even after I explained to them and showed them the positive feedback, I'm pretty sure I was speaking to an auto reply program and not an actual person.

After 30 days, the hold came off, but along with a note telling me that they could put a hold on my account again if they spotted any more "suspicious activity"; basically telling me to only buy my shipping labels from eBay or else.

Kinda pissed me off.

#5 D.M

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE(DrSpengler @ Dec 6 2011, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How often does PayPal have to deal with fake donation drives being done via their accounts? Is it an epidemic that would force them to take such paranoid precautions?

If that's the case, wouldn't they ban donations altogether? I mean, ANYONE can claim to own a sick cat.

#6 Nanite

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 02:03 PM

All better now: http://thenextweb.co...makes-donation/

Edit: (Not that I think Paypal actually cares, but it was shaping up to be a MAHOOOOSIVE PR disaster for them.)

Edited by Nanite, 06 December 2011 - 02:06 PM.

On them twitters

#7 ExVee

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:47 PM

Seems this is the first Regretsy has heard about it.

#8 Evil Zoe

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:09 PM

This sort of explains why they went through so much to hire me. They must really need people with strong customer service skills and management experience to deal with this sort of thing.

I've never had a company try so hard to make sure I was able to pass all their requirements. After I did the tests and had the interview, they called me every few weeks to let me know when they were stuck on something and needed something from me to get past it. Since I don't have all the standard documents, they allowed a lot of substitutions.

Seriously, I never felt so WANTED by a company.

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#9 Dissever

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:36 PM

FINALLY closed my PayPal account now that eBay insanity is over. I included this in the comments section:

I am extremely unhappy with PayPal's treatment of the Regresy community's attempt to pool monetary resources for less forunate families this past holiday season. This is NOT an isolated incident; PayPal has a record of selectively denying charitable activities by other internet communities, including Something Awful's support of Hurricane Katrina's victims, and the Child's Play toy donation drive by Penny Arcade. Three strikes; you're out. I will be opening accounts with Google Checkout, Amazon Payments, and Dwolla for my online merchant needs.
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#10 ExVee

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:50 PM

Being that a Paypal representative has told me in a phone conversation - VERBATIM - "well, maybe Paypal isn't for you", I'm afraid your comments will almost certainly fall on deaf ears. The company is so large and so monopolistic in this field that they don't have to care about individual user satisfaction or single accounts being closed. They're doing wrong and corporate evil and many people recognize this fact, but without a major-name alternative, there's not enough people willing to leave Paypal that anyone will take notice. Add that Ebay will never allow any online payment service other than Paypal, and a lot of people are solidly trapped, and Paypal knows it.

#11 Esser-Z

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 08:16 PM

We need Nathan Ford.

Seriously. This sounds perfect for a Leverage episode.

Edited by Esser-Z, 28 December 2011 - 08:17 PM.


#12 Blacknife

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:20 PM

Yeah, that whole "have a right to review" part of the agreement.

Pretty much legalese for "we can do whatever we want with the account when we want." And for the most part, that's inserted in there for fraud prevention purposes. And, sometimes, there are cases like this where it's obvious there's not fraud but the sirens are sounded anyway.

Despite that, the dbaggery on Paypal's part in handling issues is not excusable.

Edited by Blacknife, 28 December 2011 - 10:22 PM.

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#13 CORVUS

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:02 AM

Ugh. They just keep getting worse and worse. Perhaps I should do as Dissever is doing, and just go elsewhere and leave Paypal and eBay behind.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#14 Automan2000

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:22 AM

Damn poor kids... why don't they just stop being poor already!!

#15 Evil Zoe

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:38 AM

I guess I shouldn't advertise that I'll be working for Paypal in the next couple of months? LOL

Hey, a job's a job, but don't hate me, okay?

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#16 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:50 AM

It would be silly to turn down a job the way things are right now. Principles are great, but you can't live in them or survive on them. I avoid patronising services and/or corporations that engage in practices I don't approve of when it's feasible, but there really is no good alternative to eBay and PayPal. I don't buy a ton on eBay, but I do buy enough (and things which aren't always easy to get around here) that I've always been glad to have access to it.

I did the money order in the mail thing back in the day; won't go back to it. While I acknowledge that there have definitely been some people and groups who've had rotten experiences with PayPal, I've been using it for just over 10 years and my own experience has always been positive. They even got my money back for me without any fuss, the one time a seller on eBay tried to scam me

#17 Pennpenn

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:55 AM

I think the line that would have caused me to reach through the phone and beat them half to death with thier own smug prickish condescension is-
QUOTE
PAYPAL: We know what you?re doing and we?re through playing games with you.


It's just... so perfectly horrible, so absolutely enraging.

#18 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:23 AM

Do money orders no longer work on eBay? It's at the seller's discretion, isn't it?

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#19 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE(LBD @ Dec 29 2011, 03:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do money orders no longer work on eBay? It's at the seller's discretion, isn't it?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


Some sellers will still accept checks or money orders, and at least one guy I've seen will only take checks or money orders.

However, it's exceedingly slow by comparison (it can add a week or more to overall shipping time while the check / money order makes it through the mail system) and there's no protection if your payment gets lost.

As such, a lot of folks just do PayPal simply because it's easier for all parties involved.
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#20 Scavgraphics

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE(Fortress Ironhold @ Dec 29 2011, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(LBD @ Dec 29 2011, 03:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do money orders no longer work on eBay? It's at the seller's discretion, isn't it?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


Some sellers will still accept checks or money orders, and at least one guy I've seen will only take checks or money orders.


You're experience may differ, but I started selling some stuff on ebay in October after years of not selling, and my boiler plate line I'd had in there about Money Orders had the system refusing to list it because they're no longer allowed.

Pretty much, you can only do things thru PayPal, eBay takes ever increasing and secret fees from your sales, their polices as ever favor the criminal and scammer over the victim and scammed, and it's more and more only there to be a place for chinese warehouse marketers over individuals.

And because it's the only real game in town, that's how it'll go.



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