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@  MEDdMI : (26 August 2016 - 05:15 AM)

Happy Birthday! *rolls a giant cake into the Shoutbox*

@  Pennpenn : (26 August 2016 - 12:55 AM)

Happy birthday to me!

@  OrionPax44 : (25 August 2016 - 04:50 PM)

Is the main dance move him flashing you in beat with the music?

@  Broadside : (25 August 2016 - 04:50 PM)

http://i.imgur.com/qeoJpsf.jpg

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 August 2016 - 04:48 PM)

HEEEEEEEEEEY FOODSTAMP LAAADAAAY

@  Broadside : (25 August 2016 - 04:45 PM)

Oppa Homeless Style?

@  LV! : (25 August 2016 - 01:01 PM)

That guy had a perfectly nice home, he just didn't want the neighbors to see you with him.

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 August 2016 - 11:52 AM)

Did you at least buy him dinner?

@  Robowang : (25 August 2016 - 11:14 AM)

So I was making out with this random old homeless guy, and he stops and is all like "Why are you making out with me?" and I'm just like "Shut up, Homeless Guy."

@  Benbot : (25 August 2016 - 07:34 AM)

What?

@  MEDdMI : (25 August 2016 - 05:58 AM)

Aren't we the ones causing trouble for Kalidor?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.


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Heirs of the Thirteen


10 replies to this topic

#1 Rosicrucian

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 01:39 PM

In musing on Exiles, I've started to wonder whether it might be interesting to have a fuller governing body of Cybertronian society, with more specialized roles based on the passing of the artifacts of the Thirteen.

Prime would remain the position held by a Matrix-bearer, as their authority comes from being the successors of Prima.

Magnus in my mind could be a position whose symbol of office is the hammer of Solus Prime, and their duty would be to keep the armories of Cybertron.

Alpha Trion doesn't seem to have passed his artifact on, but how interesting would it be to have a number of successors who each carried the quill and the Covenant of Primus?

I think I even see room for Nemesis as a position, as a devil's advocate whose job it is to re-examine the Prime's plans and point out their flaws. I'm not sure which of the Thirteen this one would stem from. Perhaps a position to remember the Fallen's mistakes? Maybe the spiritual successors of Amalgamous Prime?

#2 Tindalos

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:25 PM

So the Prime is the overall leader, and the Magnus the general of the Military, since they have the authority over weaponry? Nice, and opens up the way for an unscrupulous Magnus to seize control by keeping the Prime away from any true power, like the shoguns did with the emperor of Japan.

On the Nemesis front, how I've imagined it is "Nemesis Prime" is the term for any Prime who has abused his power, like the roman tradition of damnatio memoriae, their crimes were regarded as so heinous that their names were stricken from record.

#3 Rosicrucian

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:32 PM

I think it mostly interested me in the context I described it because how much story potential is there in a Nemesis who isn't necessarily a bad guy? The idea that Cybertron's governing body needs a Nemesis because there has to be someone who can tell the Prime "no."

#4 Daytonus

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:39 PM

Appointing a Devil's Advocate is an important means of preventing groupthink, so it definitely has potential. I think Amalgamous descendants would be good for this role, so perhaps there could be a high-ranking Shifter.

#5 Skullgrin2014

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 08:36 PM

The fallen's role was preventing Entropy right? Dosen't that mean that they'd have to replace the fallen with someone else?

Or does it mean that his role still is preventing Entropy. Only that he's learned to use entropic factors to create weapons. Also, does this mean the Decepticons symbolize the absolutist order by force principle. And, aren't really about destruction and chaos...


Also... I'm supposing that Liege Maximo. Is basically Legion maximum. Does that mean the liege symbolizes mass expansion and colonialism?

So the question here would the liege need to be replaced? Or is his fall the cause of cybertron's stagnation?

I'm guessing the fallen and Liege Maximo are still loyal to their causes. They just chose to ignore the balance the other primes give to their roles. To the point where they went to. The sake of our purpose only and damn everything else.

Edited by MonsterFromMars, 26 November 2011 - 08:40 PM.

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#6 Rosicrucian

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:35 PM

I don't think his role was preventing entropy, but overseeing it. At least if I'm recalling correctly.

#7 SteamPunk Astrotrain

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:35 PM

You make an interesting point. It would explain why only some transformers can combine into giant gestalts, because they are the only ones descended from Nexus Prime. That was my thought, when Nexus was described in detail, in Exodus. By the same logic, most of the robots with two or more alternate modes, must have some of Amagamous Prime in them; Having some shape-shifter CNA would explain how they can do something that is impossible for most other Cybertronians.


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#8 Rosicrucian

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 06:58 PM

They do more or less directly state that the remaining shapeshifters among the Cybertronian population claim descent from him, yeah.

#9 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:04 AM

QUOTE(Daytonus @ Nov 26 2011, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Appointing a Devil's Advocate is an important means of preventing groupthink, so it definitely has potential. I think Amalgamous descendants would be good for this role, so perhaps there could be a high-ranking Shifter.


Wouldn't that more or less lead to something like the two-party system in the States, where it seems the purpose of whoever isn't in power is to keep the ones who are from getting anything done?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#10 BB Shockwave

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:50 AM

I have been working on a fanfic set in a sort of amalgamated universe called "JLC" aka "Justice League of Cybertron (obviously, an amalgamation of TFs and the DC universe). icon-hotrod.gif In this universe, the thirteen would all be TFs with a very specific role set for them by their creator - there is a Scholar, a Bastion (last line of defense), a Protector, a Keeper, a Gatherer of Knowledge, a Seer, etc... But due to a global event caused by a certain antagonistic race, all but one of them have now no memories of their former purpose, living in the general TF populace - yet, their primal programming does emerge, even if sometimes in seriously warped ways.

Edited by BB Shockwave, 28 November 2011 - 04:51 AM.

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#11 Blacknife

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:41 PM

I've been attempting to write this story about government for Transformers.

It seems to me at least, that the fact of the Quintessons have enslaved the TFs will be seemingly kept as part of the overall mythos.

That TFs are so jaded about about governing systems, that they go off of a completely election based system. In effect, the civilian population wants something done, they vote to have it passed or not. Mass majority rules. Exceptions are added to laws by minority opposition to prevent abuse of the system. It acts like it's own check and balances. Trials are held by something similar to the jury selection process. There is no presiding Judge, but a jury of peers randomly selected to weigh the case against the law.


QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Nov 28 2011, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have been working on a fanfic set in a sort of amalgamated universe called "JLC" aka "Justice League of Cybertron (obviously, an amalgamation of TFs and the DC universe). icon-hotrod.gif In this universe, the thirteen would all be TFs with a very specific role set for them by their creator - there is a Scholar, a Bastion (last line of defense), a Protector, a Keeper, a Gatherer of Knowledge, a Seer, etc... But due to a global event caused by a certain antagonistic race, all but one of them have now no memories of their former purpose, living in the general TF populace - yet, their primal programming does emerge, even if sometimes in seriously warped ways.



BB, you and I need to have a nice friendly chat at some point...


Because, I've been wanting to do DC: Transformed like ever since the rumors of DC entertaining the TF license was circulated and created a stir.


DC: Transformed being a full fledged Transformer/DC fanfic group of titles {short story fanfics released like "issues" of a comic, each centered on the characters of the title.}.


And yes, I've done this kind of thing before icon-fire.gif.

Edited by Blacknife, 29 November 2011 - 04:56 PM.

Marvel Universe: Transformed Forever archived in it's #80 in a four issue limited series phase.

 




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