Jump to content


Entertainment Earth


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  MEDdMI : (25 August 2016 - 05:58 AM)

Aren't we the ones causing trouble for Kalidor?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.


Photo
- - - - -

Season 2 Episode 3 "Lesson Zero" Discussion


181 replies to this topic

#161 spikeriley

spikeriley

    Me Always Hungry!

  • Citizen
  • 3187 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::Free Agent

Posted 21 October 2011 - 03:54 AM

Rainbow Dash lets out a rainbow nuke on Applejack's old barn. That's a new meme right there.

Aveggies, assemble!


#162 Adam G

Adam G

    Chopper Face 69

  • Supporter
  • 10479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
  • Faction::Lesbian Ninja

Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:23 AM

QUOTE(Masked Toaster @ Oct 19 2011, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought Halloween originated from someone constantly causing mischief and was originally in the spring, but then the Christians or whoever, on a religious crusade, decided to move it to the fall, something to do with another date.

Halloween isn't a Christian holiday. Why would Christians move something they're openly hostile towards and have no control over?

#163 Masked Toaster

Masked Toaster

    maker of toast both brown and crisp

  • Citizen
  • 1270 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:the forests of Trottingham

Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:59 AM

QUOTE(TM2 Dinobot @ Oct 20 2011, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, but is that to the day?
It had to either have been that day or passed it already, otherwise, she would have said 'nearly a thousand years'.

QUOTE(Adam @ Oct 21 2011, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Masked Toaster @ Oct 19 2011, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought Halloween originated from someone constantly causing mischief and was originally in the spring, but then the Christians or whoever, on a religious crusade, decided to move it to the fall, something to do with another date.

Halloween isn't a Christian holiday. Why would Christians move something they're openly hostile towards and have no control over?
No one said it was. From what I remember, an event was moved to try and 'counter' something that was felt to have dark motives. Or maybe it was All Saints day.

According to the online tv guide, it will be on History Channel again on the 27th at 8p EST, The Real Story of Halloween. And the description off-hoof calls it a Pagan holiday.

#164 TM2 Dinobot

TM2 Dinobot

    Wha?

  • Citizen
  • 4636 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas, ya Yank!
  • Faction::Predacon

Posted 21 October 2011 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE(Masked Toaster @ Oct 21 2011, 07:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(TM2 Dinobot @ Oct 20 2011, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, but is that to the day?
It had to either have been that day or passed it already, otherwise, she would have said 'nearly a thousand years'.

Right. I guess also it was 1000 years to the day. Why would Luna have stayed in the moon a second longer than possible?
I had a better signature... then it ran away. MLP card trade list. MLP blind bag trade list.

#165 Masked Toaster

Masked Toaster

    maker of toast both brown and crisp

  • Citizen
  • 1270 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:the forests of Trottingham

Posted 21 October 2011 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE(TM2 Dinobot @ Oct 21 2011, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Masked Toaster @ Oct 21 2011, 07:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(TM2 Dinobot @ Oct 20 2011, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, but is that to the day?
It had to either have been that day or passed it already, otherwise, she would have said 'nearly a thousand years'.

Right. I guess also it was 1000 years to the day. Why would Luna have stayed in the moon a second longer than possible?
To pull a Majora?

#166 Copper Bezel

Copper Bezel

    Local SMG Hover Enthusiast

  • Supporter
  • 28830 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Homeworld
  • Faction::Equestrian

Posted 21 October 2011 - 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Masked Toaster)
According to the online tv guide, it will be on History Channel again on the 27th at 8p EST, The Real Story of Halloween. And the description off-hoof calls it a Pagan holiday.

Apparently, it's arguable. It's definitely a Christian holiday, first and foremost.

#167 Masked Toaster

Masked Toaster

    maker of toast both brown and crisp

  • Citizen
  • 1270 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:the forests of Trottingham

Posted 21 October 2011 - 06:00 PM

QUOTE(Copper Bezel @ Oct 21 2011, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Masked Toaster)
According to the online tv guide, it will be on History Channel again on the 27th at 8p EST, The Real Story of Halloween. And the description off-hoof calls it a Pagan holiday.

Apparently, it's arguable. It's definitely a Christian holiday, first and foremost.
Except the first line of that wiki says it originated from Celtic and Roman traditions, and the end of the paragraph says 'pre-christian times'.
So it's accepted by some followers of Christianity, shunned by some, and has traces to other cultures and religions. It's neither one or another, but an amalgam of parts.

QUOTE("http://www.history.com/topics/halloween")
Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. ... Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31 they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth.

Edited by Masked Toaster, 21 October 2011 - 06:01 PM.


#168 Sobana

Sobana
  • MORON
  • 462 posts

Posted 21 October 2011 - 11:21 PM

QUOTE(Copper Bezel @ Oct 21 2011, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Masked Toaster)
According to the online tv guide, it will be on History Channel again on the 27th at 8p EST, The Real Story of Halloween. And the description off-hoof calls it a Pagan holiday.

Apparently, it's arguable. It's definitely a Christian holiday, first and foremost.

Well, if you want to get technical, there are no true Christian holidays mentioned in the bible at all, all the holidays Christians celebrate are taken from other religions or cultures and given a Christian theme in the hopes of converting people from pagan religions, later on it become tradition.

#169 Adam G

Adam G

    Chopper Face 69

  • Supporter
  • 10479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
  • Faction::Lesbian Ninja

Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:58 PM

QUOTE(Copper Bezel @ Oct 21 2011, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Masked Toaster)
According to the online tv guide, it will be on History Channel again on the 27th at 8p EST, The Real Story of Halloween. And the description off-hoof calls it a Pagan holiday.

Apparently, it's arguable. It's definitely a Christian holiday, first and foremost.

Please specify what makes you think it's Christian. It's really not. Christians celebrate it. They also celebrate birthdays, Valentine's Day and Thanksgiving, but none of these things are Christian.

Really...

QUOTE
ChristianityChristian attitudes towards Halloween are diverse. In the Anglican Church, some dioceses have chosen to emphasize the Christian traditions of All Saints? Day,[42][43] while some other Protestants celebrate the holiday as Reformation Day, a day to remember the Protestant Reformation.[44][45] Father Gabriele Amorth, a Vatican-appointed exorcist in Rome, has said, "if English and American children like to dress up as witches and devils on one night of the year that is not a problem. If it is just a game, there is no harm in that."[46] In more recent years, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston has organized a "Saint Fest" on the holiday.[47] Similarly, many contemporary Protestant churches view Halloween as a fun event for children, holding events in their churches where children and their parents can dress up, play games, and get candy for free.

Many Christians ascribe no negative significance to Halloween, treating it as a purely secular holiday devoted to celebrating "imaginary spooks" and handing out candy. To these Christians, Halloween holds no threat to the spiritual lives of children: being taught about death and mortality, and the ways of the Celtic ancestors actually being a valuable life lesson and a part of many of their parishioners' heritage.[48] In the Roman Catholic Church, Halloween is viewed as having a Christian connection,[49] and Halloween celebrations are common in Catholic parochial schools throughout North America and in Ireland.

Some Christians feel concerned about Halloween, and reject the holiday because they feel it trivializes ? or celebrates ? paganism, the occult, or other practices and cultural phenomena deemed incompatible with their beliefs.[50] A response among some fundamentalist and conservative evangelical churches in recent years has been the use of "Hell houses", themed pamphlets, or comic-style tracts such as those created by Jack T. Chick in order to make use of Halloween's popularity as an opportunity for evangelism.[47] Some consider Halloween to be completely incompatible with the Christian faith[51] believing it to have originated as a pagan "Festival of the Dead".
How can you read that and think anything but "Not a Christian holiday"?

#170 MyLittleEmpath

MyLittleEmpath

    Don't worry. Ponies will make it all better.

  • Supporter
  • 1428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Inside the Moon
  • Faction::Equestrian

Posted 24 October 2011 - 05:58 PM

At this point, I really must ask if any of us actually care about this argument anymore. Can't we just agree that Halloween is a fun holiday and leave it at that? I mean, seriously, arguments are popping up over the most inconsequential of minutia recently and it's starting to annoy at least me, and probably others here. So can we please just let this one go?
FREE CUSTOM PONIES!!
Just PM me whatever specifications you want.

#171 Robot Viking

Robot Viking

    Loot, pillage, burn, watch TV

  • Supporter
  • 679 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::Free Agent

Posted 24 October 2011 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE(MyLittleEmpath @ Oct 24 2011, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I mean, seriously, arguments are popping up over the most inconsequential of minutia recently and it's starting to annoy at least me, and probably others here.

Uh oh. Someone should see if the Royal Garden is missing a statue...

#172 Masked Toaster

Masked Toaster

    maker of toast both brown and crisp

  • Citizen
  • 1270 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:the forests of Trottingham

Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE(RoboViking @ Oct 24 2011, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Uh oh. Someone should see if the Royal Garden is missing a statue...
Empty pedestal surrounded by barbed wire and signs that say 'Keep Away'?

Nope, nothing missing here.

#173 MyLittleEmpath

MyLittleEmpath

    Don't worry. Ponies will make it all better.

  • Supporter
  • 1428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Inside the Moon
  • Faction::Equestrian

Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:29 PM

QUOTE(Masked Toaster @ Oct 24 2011, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(RoboViking @ Oct 24 2011, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Uh oh. Someone should see if the Royal Garden is missing a statue...
Empty pedestal surrounded by barbed wire and signs that say 'Keep Away'?

Nope, nothing missing here.

You know what's weird? In all seriousness, these arguments did actually start popping up right around the time Discord appeared. Or at least, that's when I started noticing them . . .
FREE CUSTOM PONIES!!
Just PM me whatever specifications you want.

#174 Adam G

Adam G

    Chopper Face 69

  • Supporter
  • 10479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
  • Faction::Lesbian Ninja

Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:35 PM

Dude it's the Internet. I thought this is what it was for.

#175 Copper Bezel

Copper Bezel

    Local SMG Hover Enthusiast

  • Supporter
  • 28830 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Homeworld
  • Faction::Equestrian

Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:35 PM

I agree.

QUOTE(Adam)
How can you read that and think anything but "Not a Christian holiday"?

Okay, let me slow down a bit and clarify (and correct) my terms. By saying "Christian holiday," I'm being inaccurate in two senses - it's not a holy day of anything, and it's not a recognized part of Christian orthodoxy. I'll drop "holiday" first. But it is a Christian celebration in the sense that it's part of the Christian tradition, reflects superstitions derived from Christian faith, and has no other religious underpinnings. That's my understanding of the blurb I just read on Wikipedia.

I don't see any reason to consider the position of present-day religious orthodoxies on the celebration, because the above description relies only on description of historical influences. Present-day Christians can't speak for their four-centuries-dead.

I admit that I could be misreading something, but I was mostly going on the quote from Ronald Hutton, apparently a relevant expert, on Wikipedia:

QUOTE
Certainly Samhain was a time for festive gatherings, and medieval Irish texts and later Irish, Welsh, and Scottish folklore use it as a setting for supernatural encounters, but there is no evidence that it was connected with the dead in pre-Christian times, or that pagan religious ceremonies were held.


We already know that the name is Christian in origin, as is the precise date, since it's named for the Christian holiday it precedes (following a roving calendar of holy days defined by Christian orthodoxy.) The presence of a harvest festival is pre-Christian, but the association with the occult is not through an association with pagan ritual, but via the darker side of Christian theology. Souls roaming free and the whole bit.

It's less Odin, more Satan. That says "Christian holiday" to me, if that phrase can reasonably stand to mean "a festival from the Christian tradition." Maybe it can't, and I was being sloppy with the terminology. It's certainly not a pagan (pre-Christian) celebration in any real sense except in that everyone already knew that October was a great time to get drunk.

Edited by Copper Bezel, 24 October 2011 - 08:37 PM.


#176 TM2 Dinobot

TM2 Dinobot

    Wha?

  • Citizen
  • 4636 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas, ya Yank!
  • Faction::Predacon

Posted 24 October 2011 - 09:59 PM

That's why I just go with Dia de la Muerte. People leave me alone and scares the heck out of "white" people.

Edited by TM2 Dinobot, 24 October 2011 - 09:59 PM.

I had a better signature... then it ran away. MLP card trade list. MLP blind bag trade list.

#177 Matenshi

Matenshi
  • Citizen
  • 288 posts

Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:13 PM

QUOTE(Adam @ Oct 24 2011, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dude it's the Internet. I thought this is what it was for.



#178 Waspinator

Waspinator

    Waspinator has a headache in his whole body

  • Citizen
  • 21779 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The State of Misery
  • Faction::Predacon

Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:11 PM


PjJhR.gif


#179 Masked Toaster

Masked Toaster

    maker of toast both brown and crisp

  • Citizen
  • 1270 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:the forests of Trottingham

Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:51 PM

QUOTE(Waspinator @ Oct 26 2011, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"But I thought you had it for AJ!"

#180 TM2-Megatron

TM2-Megatron
  • Supporter
  • 9866 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Faction::Equestrian

Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:25 PM

lol; Twi asked for it with that line.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users