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@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.


CHMS and X-Transbots thread


474 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Aug 30 2011, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sweet packaging art. Wonder if they paid Nick Roche.


I doubt it. It is an unabashed KO, they stole all the designs and we know it. They are not even pretending it's their own work. I wonder if i has some sort of tech spec on the box or packed in.

Edited by mignash, 30 August 2011 - 03:43 PM.


#22 Walky

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:02 PM

I knew there was no shame regarding the corporate level. I just wondered if there was any shame regarding the individual level.

Not, like, at the KO companies, no, of course.

But among portion of the fandom which eats this crap up.

#23 NICK TYRANNO

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:20 PM

They can get something cheaper than they would if it was official. Plus, they don't care that the mold is stolen, why would they care the art is?

And 40 dollars for a knock off? The only way I'd buy ANY of these things is if they were under 10 dollars at a flea market...which hasn't happened yet.

#24 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:37 PM

Well, right now it costs over $400 for one of these, so I can see the appeal of a $40 immitation, even if it's a $10 mold.

#25 C16

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:45 PM

Is the mold really stolen? Probably more like "borrowed" without permission.

I'll get this, but not because it's available cheaply, but because the real one has become so ridiculously expensive. If he was going for even slightly higher than average Botcon Deluxe prices, I'd have no problem splurging to have the official quality one. As it is, I'll settle for for a decline in some quality.

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#26 Razorsaw

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE(C16 @ Aug 30 2011, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the mold really stolen? Probably more like "borrowed" without permission.


Wow.

Just. Wow.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#27 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:08 PM

Probably not stolen or borrowed, but copied the design (without permission). I doubt they stole the physical mold from Hasbro or Takara, they made a new one by using the parts a Hasbro or Takara toy to manufacturer a new mold. It probably doesn't even look the same, and has a different part layout on the sprues.

Edited by mignash, 31 August 2011 - 01:08 PM.


#28 NICK TYRANNO

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 02:35 PM

I just think the charm of exclusives is owning the real thing. That's what's worth the money and what makes them unique. Owning a copy of an exclusive, as a good enough stand in of the real thing, doesn't appeal to me. I might as well buy a Cyclonus and Hot Rod set off ebay, therefore getting two figures for the price of one (or a single used hot rod for 7 dollars) and kitbash my own SG Rodimus. The custom would have as much value as a knock-off, fill a void in my collection and actually be more unique than the knock off, since its one of a kind.

I mean, either way its not the actual exclusive, so there's no value there.

#29 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE(NICKSTART @ Aug 31 2011, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just think the charm of exclusives is owning the real thing. That's what's worth the money and what makes them unique. Owning a copy of an exclusive, as a good enough stand in of the real thing, doesn't appeal to me. I might as well buy a Cyclonus and Hot Rod set off ebay, therefore getting two figures for the price of one (or a single used hot rod for 7 dollars) and kitbash my own SG Rodimus. The custom would have as much value as a knock-off, fill a void in my collection and actually be more unique than the knock off, since its one of a kind.

I mean, either way its not the actual exclusive, so there's no value there.


That's a completely legitimate position for you in working on your collection if you have the money.

Some people buy Armani handbags, some people buy immitaiton Armani handbags, and some people sew their own handbag.

Edited by mignash, 31 August 2011 - 03:40 PM.


#30 Powered Convoy

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:19 PM

Except the custom figure at least had $10 to $20 actually go to the company that owns the likeness and did the work to make the figure originally. A KO has none of that.

I should have bought an extra SG Rodimus when he and Megatron were selling for $120 to $150.

Randy

#31 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE(Powered Convoy @ Aug 31 2011, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Except the custom figure at least had $10 to $20 actually go to the company that owns the likeness and did the work to make the figure originally. A KO has none of that.

I should have bought an extra SG Rodimus when he and Megatron were selling for $120 to $150.

Randy


I seem to recall that a church run video editing company tried once to sell DVDs that had been edited to be "kid friendly" by cutting out the "R" rated material for people who wanted to less offensive versions of movies to show the whole family. This of course would be illegal, so they tried bundeling the DVD with a "real" DVD of the same movie, so you were technically buying the "real" movie and the edit was a free extra they packed in, and you were paying for the copyright on the original film.

Do you think if some KO seller made a bundle with a real common deco of a figure, and a KO figure that was a more expensive deco that was "free", it would make the purchase more legitimate? For instance what if they bundeled the Universe Hot Rod and Cyclonus with a KO SG Rodimus and Cyclonus?

Also, what if they KO was missing some accessories, like say tires and missiles, screws, and other bits, so you had to take those from the "real" figure to complete them. That way technically it's just massive "upgrade" set, not a full figure?

Edited by mignash, 31 August 2011 - 03:49 PM.


#32 Razorsaw

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:46 PM

This really is unbelievable.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#33 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Aug 30 2011, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I knew there was no shame regarding the corporate level. I just wondered if there was any shame regarding the individual level.

Not, like, at the KO companies, no, of course.

But among portion of the fandom which eats this crap up.


Do you really think Nick Rocke would accept money from a KO company for using his art of Transformers characters on their KO boxes? If he did accept it, wouldn't that piss off Hasbro? Accepting their money might be taken as endorsing the KO toy.

Edited by mignash, 31 August 2011 - 04:30 PM.


#34 Powered Convoy

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:19 PM

mignash I don't understand why you feel the need to defend the KO people as if they're the victim in this, but whatever.

I'm sure this KO will be popular with some.

Randy

#35 C16

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:47 PM

Razorclaw is RLY MAD. And easy to troll, too.
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#36 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE(Powered Convoy @ Aug 31 2011, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
mignash I don't understand why you feel the need to defend the KO people as if they're the victim in this, but whatever.

I'm sure this KO will be popular with some.

Randy


I didn't defend anyone. I don't expect them to pay the artist of the art they pulled on google images and pasted on their box. I don't expect that that artist who made the image expect a check in the mail for it either. This however is the KO toy forum, where we talk about the KO toys.

Edited by mignash, 31 August 2011 - 08:10 PM.


#37 C16

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:40 PM

Has anyone preordered yet? I'm wondering if they charge you for the preorder or for when it ships.
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#38 Mouse_Pad

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:19 PM

I despise the fact that these things exist, and I despise the fact that people support their production by buying them. Once they reach the secondary market, people are going to get swindled -- intentionally or not.

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#39 Powered Convoy

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE(Mouse_Pad @ Sep 2 2011, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I despise the fact that these things exist, and I despise the fact that people support their production by buying them. Once they reach the secondary market, people are going to get swindled -- intentionally or not.

Those are my thoughts as well, though lately I no longer get upset at seeing new ones - I guess I've grown dull to the pain.

Randy

#40 NICK TYRANNO

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:56 PM

And here I was customizing one of my spare Rodimi into this guy. Looks like I may be changing directions.



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