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Episode 21


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#81 Copper Bezel

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE(Waspinator)
The Ground Bridge is basically like Star Trek transporters. When they really need it, it's broken somehow.

Captain, the planet's magnetosphere is emitting high-frequency plot rays that will interfere with our ability to remember that we have transporters while on the planet's surface.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

QUOTE(TheOptimusPrime)
Without it the Autobots would really be stuck in nothing but the mountains of Nevada(which would make people say that OMG BEAST WARS HAD BETTER ANIMATION SEE? ONLY DESERTS or something else)


This hellish nightmare scenario at world's end sounds roughly like reality, but without the ground bridge. Then there's Convoy, which had overflowing buckets of scenery, and was about driving. On roads. Without the Ground Bridge.

QUOTE(Waspinator)
It's easier to have a big swirly thing appear and them walk out of it than to show them flying or driving over a variety of terrain to get places.

But ... there's no need to explain how they get somewhere. They turn into cars. They can just drive onto the scene. They can drive away from the base, and then show up elsewhere, and we can just assume that they hopped on Interstate 80 and took this or that exit and so on. I don't see how that's any different from the Ground Bridge.

QUOTE(TheOptimusPrime)
I REALLY disliked the first episode reviving Optimus because it's an action cartoon. Action cartoons, much like action shows, are all about danger but in the first episode you have the autobots flat out say "sometimes there is nothing you can do" (i think it was Bulkhead that said it?) to be proved on the spot that YES they can?

I see what you're saying - it does make physical damage seem to be less of a big deal, even moreso than simply having a Ratchet or a CR chamber on hand to fix up the heroes for the next episode.

I just don't think it was ever central to the threat. I mean, in Animated, there were humans living on Earth. The Autobots were rarely the ones in danger to begin with. You have an exception like Meltdown or Blackarachnia or the Decepticons, and you have Sari and her key unavailable for whatever reason. The Key had to go away in the third season with the shift to a genuinely action-based plot, and it, obligingly, did.

As for the fight scenes, I really disagree on both points. I actually thought the fight in 23 between Megatron and Prime was one of the best in Transformers. The energy weapons were unconvincing, but the way they were swordfighting to avoid letting each other get any use of said energy weapons almost made me forget that they don't do anything. It was fairly intense.

As for Animated - there were fight scenes? I wouldn't blame the animation style - Star Wars: The Clone Wars did a lot more with a little less - or the Key, since there are "fights" before and after it's introduced. It's just ... not a thing they really did. I think there was something with Lockdown at some point? There were a lot of chase scenes, but that's a different style of blocking altogether. Scenes with Autobots fighting Decepticons tended to be backdrops for witty banter and off-screen plot developments.

#82 Axaday

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 11:00 AM

Did anyone count the puns?

#83 Dake

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE(Unfair Fight @ Sep 11 2011, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You guys really take this stuff too seriously.

Eh - there's a certain point at which it's just lazy. It's like, sit-com lazy.

"What cuh-razy thing will Miko do to get the Autobots in hot water? Tune in next week and find out - yuk yuk yuk!"

She's like Erkle or something.

My biggest complaint, far and above any other issue with this show is Miko's continual screw ups that have repeatedly nearly gotten people/bots killed and what do they lead the new season with? Sari started out annoying but she did this nutty thing called learning. It's called "character development" and it's what good writers do. Then again, pretty much all the characters in this show are exactly the same as they were in the first episode, so I guess I'm expecting too much.
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#84 Boomhauer

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 10:45 PM

QUOTE(Dake @ Sep 17 2011, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then again, pretty much all the characters in this show are exactly the same as they were in the first episode, so I guess I'm expecting too much.


No they're not, Ratchet stopped being a jerk to humans, Bulkhead stopped with his "let people I don't like die" thing by rescuing his rival no less, we saw Arcee become vengeful AND learn her lesson, Optimus just got over his noble hero non-sense-itis last episode, and I don't even need to mention Starscream who had multiple emotional rollercoasters.

It is really only Miko that keeps being an idiot, but then again, so did Bumblebee in TFA and Cheetor in BW for a good while. Transformers always had a problem with characters that run into danger being brain-damaged.

Edited by TheOptimusPrime, 17 September 2011 - 10:51 PM.


#85 abates

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE(Dake @ Sep 18 2011, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My biggest complaint, far and above any other issue with this show is Miko's continual screw ups that have repeatedly nearly gotten people/bots killed and what do they lead the new season with?

We're still on season 1. Season 2 starts in late November.
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#86 Walky

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:47 AM

Frankly, I watch the show FOR the Miko havoc.

#87 Razorsaw

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:43 AM

QUOTE
Not to beat a dead horse but in Animated Sari did some stupid stuff, she paid for it, and she didn't do the same stupid stuff.


No. This is factually inaccurate.

Sari had to learn the lesson about properly using her key several times.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#88 Sprocket

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:45 AM

What I like about this episode (other than the humor derived from Bulkhead's one-track mind for the formula) was the fact that you could tell Bulkhead was *enjoying* the time he spent with Miko, brief though those scenes were. Bulkhead's never come off that enthusiastic about anything up to that point, at best getting a small kick out of fighting Decepticons. (And broing up with Wheeljack, yes.) Up 'til this episode, it felt to me like he was just going along with Miko less as a friend and more as a browbeaten babysitter, and I sure prefer the former to the latter.
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#89 Sprocket

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:47 AM

QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Sep 18 2011, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Not to beat a dead horse but in Animated Sari did some stupid stuff, she paid for it, and she didn't do the same stupid stuff.

No. This is factually inaccurate.

Sari had to learn the lesson about properly using her key several times.

At least they manifested in different ways for varying reasons. (Wanting to grow up and be noticed, wanting a killer toy, wanting to have a little fun) Miko gets in trouble doing the same damn thing for the same damn reason *every time*. I don't mind her having antics, but couldn't we shake it up a little? Maybe find new ways for her to get in trouble?

Edited by Sprocket, 18 September 2011 - 02:54 AM.

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#90 Razorsaw

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:51 AM

... huh? Sari's was basically the same thing. It was all variations on using her key. The only thing that was different was what she wanted with it.

And then there's Bumblebee's aesop amnesia.

Really, I love Animated. But people's "glass houses" position between it and Prime is honestly well past the point of infuriating, and at the point where people are saying things that are flagrantly untrue about one or the other. It's beyond simply being aggravating.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#91 Sprocket

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:55 AM

That's my point: there was some variation. Miko's antics are getting so predictable all we need now is a corny one-liner and group laugh at the end of an episode and the Hanna-Barbera-ism of Transformers Prime will be complete.
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#92 Razorsaw

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 03:05 AM

Learning not to misuse her key for pirated television stations is still the same basic lesson as abusing it to make your robot dance.

So. Yeah. I don't follow you at all.

Edited by Razorsaw, 18 September 2011 - 12:17 PM.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#93 Walky

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 10:20 AM

It's totally different because we LIKE Animated.

#94 Sprocket

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 11:32 AM

I think I need to stop comparing things to things.

(And stop looking gift horses in the mouth, considering this was one of my favorite episodes to date.)
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#95 Dake

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:45 AM

QUOTE(TheOptimusPrime @ Sep 17 2011, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Dake @ Sep 17 2011, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then again, pretty much all the characters in this show are exactly the same as they were in the first episode, so I guess I'm expecting too much.


No they're not, Ratchet stopped being a jerk to humans, Bulkhead stopped with his "let people I don't like die" thing by rescuing his rival no less, we saw Arcee become vengeful AND learn her lesson, Optimus just got over his noble hero non-sense-itis last episode, and I don't even need to mention Starscream who had multiple emotional rollercoasters.

It is really only Miko that keeps being an idiot, but then again, so did Bumblebee in TFA and Cheetor in BW for a good while. Transformers always had a problem with characters that run into danger being brain-damaged.


You're right of course. I think I was trying not to single her out but there you go - the other characters have grown some. You bring up an interesting point about Cheetor or 'Bee. To me it's far less frustrating when a bot has a tough time "learning" something. I don't know why that is except that despite being "living" beings, they still talk about programming so I suppose I dismiss it some b/c they are having to rewrite their programming?

When I see human characters behaving the same way it's faar more irritating especially when it's used as a plot device over and over and there are no repercussions. I can't claim it really makes sense, but that's what comes to mind now at any rate.

QUOTE(abates @ Sep 18 2011, 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Dake @ Sep 18 2011, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My biggest complaint, far and above any other issue with this show is Miko's continual screw ups that have repeatedly nearly gotten people/bots killed and what do they lead the new season with?

We're still on season 1. Season 2 starts in late November.


Ok, what do they lead the return from summer break with?

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Sep 18 2011, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's totally different because we LIKE Animated.


That is true and Animated did have it's problems yet somehow they were less glaring? I'm not sure what it is exactly. Yes, Sari was obnoxious early on but not on the level of Miko. Sari had to be reminded not to abuse the key three or four times - were they maybe more spread out? Meanwhile it at least seems like Miko has endangered the bots at least that many times already with no signs of change at all. She's apologetic at the end of the ep only to be back to her selfish stupidity the next time.

I don't think it's far-fetched to say there is a difference in the quality of the two characters outside of the love of the previous media. I want to love Prime but the characterization of that one person is making it very difficult.

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#96 Copper Bezel

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:54 AM

QUOTE(Dake)
Yes, Sari was obnoxious early on but not on the level of Miko.

They're equally obnoxious. Sari just has redeeming qualities. But this far into Animated, there was a lot of Sari hate.

I would agree that there's more variation with Sari, but to be fair, that's at least in part because the number of times she did something stupid and put everyone in danger well exceeds Miko's quota thus far.

Edited by Copper Bezel, 27 September 2011 - 10:55 AM.


#97 BB Shockwave

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE(Sprocket @ Sep 18 2011, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Sep 18 2011, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Not to beat a dead horse but in Animated Sari did some stupid stuff, she paid for it, and she didn't do the same stupid stuff.

No. This is factually inaccurate.

Sari had to learn the lesson about properly using her key several times.

At least they manifested in different ways for varying reasons. (Wanting to grow up and be noticed, wanting a killer toy, wanting to have a little fun) Miko gets in trouble doing the same damn thing for the same damn reason *every time*. I don't mind her having antics, but couldn't we shake it up a little? Maybe find new ways for her to get in trouble?


In 25, she wants to stay behind to see Megatron for the first time. I bet she'd want to take a picture of him too. Gah... she never learns.

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#98 Pennpenn

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 06:55 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Oct 11 2011, 06:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In 25, she wants to stay behind to see Megatron for the first time. I bet she'd want to take a picture of him too. Gah... she never learns.


Just got a mental image of some hypothetical bit during the events of ep 25 with Megatron noticing Miko wanting to take a picture and responding "The human wishes to record an image of my greatness? Well, who am I to disappoint such a creature! *flex*".


Followed by one of the most uncomfortable pauses in the entire history of the Transformers franchise.



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