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@  Benbot : (25 August 2016 - 07:34 AM)

What?

@  MEDdMI : (25 August 2016 - 05:58 AM)

Aren't we the ones causing trouble for Kalidor?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.


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Cybertron Scouts in Generations?


59 replies to this topic

#41 Razorsaw

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 02:28 PM

Undermine's robot mode is untraditional, but I love it so very very much.

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#42 Donocropolis

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE(Creature SH @ Jan 17 2011, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just don't get why they keep re-releasing these molds, of all things. The robot modes for Backstop and Undermine are some of the worst in recent memory. Backstop is a squatty side-view of a rhino with extra legs, head and an arm growing out of its ass, and Undermine's robot mode actually has less functional arms and head than his alt mode. How does that even begin to make sense?



QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Jan 17 2011, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Undermine's robot mode is untraditional, but I love it so very very much.


I liked him a lot better once I realized that he basically has the same head as Submarauder's pretender shell. In fact, if they redeco'd him in Submarauder's color scheme, I would snatch that up pretty quick.

#43 Kil

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE(Creature SH @ Jan 17 2011, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just don't get why they keep re-releasing these molds, of all things. The robot modes for Backstop and Undermine are some of the worst in recent memory. Backstop is a squatty side-view of a rhino with extra legs, head and an arm growing out of its ass, and Undermine's robot mode actually has less functional arms and head than his alt mode. How does that even begin to make sense?


Backstop and Undermine are awesome toys. Undermine's redeco Repugnus is even more awesome. Wreckloose, on the other hand.... not so much with the awesome.

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#44 Powered Convoy

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:30 PM

Dinoshout is awesome too. I liked him and Undermine so much (as they are very different) I bought both instead of just one (which I wasn't buying two of anything besides Master Megatron during Cybertron).

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#45 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:48 PM

QUOTE(NightViper @ Jan 17 2011, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wreckloose and Undermine

(Or check out the article on the front page: http://www.allspark....t/view/8338/20/ )


Wreckloose's new colors remind me of BW Iguanus (the first one).

Anyone else get that vibe?


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And yes, for those who are wondering -

It's just easier for toy companies to make redecoes or to repackage previously released product whenever the stores want exclusive product.

For example, back in '88 TRU wanted Hasbro to produce some exclusive Joe product for their stores. The end result was the Night Force subset, which consisted of select figures from the previous year's assortment and what "classic" vehicle molds they hadn't yet farmed out to Brazil or India, all of which were redone in black & gray. Thing is, Hasbro's policy of carrying product over for a full release year meant that the original 1987 versions of all those Night Force figures were still shipping to stores. As such, you could have hypothetically had the general release 1987 Falcon figure sitting on the pegs next to his Night Force incarnation.

Given that the auction headings said "TF Club" on them, I'm wondering if these weren't intended as exclusives for general release somewhere. Backstop would, obviously, have to be redecoed as the original decos might still be on the shelves. But the other two haven't seen the light of day in a while. Furthermore, the fact that Backstop's bio has been altered suggests that we might even be looking at a separate character (kinda like how the Target redecoes of the Energon and Cybertron scouts were supposed to be the Movie-verse versions of those characters).
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#46 Chip

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:28 PM

Huh. All three of these are new characters. Which means I can repurpose three toys I really like into some universe I actually give a crap about, so that's nice.

People don't like Wreckloose? Maybe it was just due to how much I missed Beast Wars at the time, but I remember him being awesome.

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#47 Suspsy

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE(Chip @ Jan 17 2011, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Huh. All three of these are new characters. Which means I can repurpose three toys I really like into some universe I actually give a crap about, so that's nice.

People don't like Wreckloose? Maybe it was just due to how much I missed Beast Wars at the time, but I remember him being awesome.


That's because he is awesome. How can a Komodo dragon wearing a battle helmet with moose antlers not be awesome?
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#48 Shadewing

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE(NightViper @ Jan 17 2011, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*Edit* Every time I look at this Backstop, the more I want him. Why do I actually have to like that mold despite its countless flaws! icon-fire.gif


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#49 Platypus Prime

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:23 PM

I think I see an odd Transmetal Rinox homage in Backstop's colors. Not sure, though.

#50 Adam16bit

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE(gpilkay @ Jan 17 2011, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think I see an odd Transmetal Rinox homage in Backstop's colors. Not sure, though.


That's what I saw, and why I will buy one. Unless it ends up like that sassin'-frassin' Mini-Con 8-pack in Bulgaria or whatever.

#51 M Sipher

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:11 PM

Innnnnnnteresting. I will certainly have to get Backstop... and just repurpose the other two.


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#52 Aquaslash

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:17 PM

Frag. I saw the topic and thought of Scout class characters from War For Cybertron :/
I'll put something here eventually

#53 Blade Raider

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:56 PM

I gotta say, I refused to get Backstop back in Cybertron, but after the movie lines I think I want him more than say, Arcee, that f***ing Ratchet mold that won't just melt already, or a few others.

So Wreckloose is getting a re-release (with blue Cyber Key. That looks better.), eh? That makes me happy because he's one of the few TFs I regret selling when I had to thin out my collection a few years back.

As for Undermine, he's still one of my favorites from Cybertron, but I wish he'd get a new paint job or they'd re-release the red version instead so I have a good excuse to buy another one.

Edited by Blade Raider, 17 January 2011 - 08:57 PM.


#54 Destron D-69

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 09:24 PM

yeah if Wreckloose had had new colours I'd have been all over that... the mold is great ... like a homage to Transmetal 2s but... BACKSTOP? sorry no
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#55 Hardbot

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 11:27 PM

Wreckloose always remided me of a Beast Wars Basic.

As far as what line they belong to: I was under the impression that Hasbro was replacing "Transformers" with RtS. But since these 3 have no rubsigns, they do not fit into RtS. They are definately not Generations, as Generations has no Scout Class and "Generations" is not on the package.

I keep a personal checklist that is catagorized by year, line and price point and I am dumping these 3 under RtS with an asterisk by their names.

#56 Steevy Maximus

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 01:20 AM

QUOTE(hardbot @ Jan 18 2011, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wreckloose always remided me of a Beast Wars Basic.

As far as what line they belong to: I was under the impression that Hasbro was replacing "Transformers" with RtS. But since these 3 have no rubsigns, they do not fit into RtS. They are definately not Generations, as Generations has no Scout Class and "Generations" is not on the package.

I keep a personal checklist that is catagorized by year, line and price point and I am dumping these 3 under RtS with an asterisk by their names.

Actually, these would probably fall into the same category as the minicon repaints we got a few months ago
http://www.bigbadtoy...amp;mode=retail

More than likely, they are intended for "secondary markets" and won't appear at mass retail (unless Walmart gets a bunch in for a Christmas push like this year). If anything, I'd classify them as "non-traditional" releases and move on (especially before people here start arguing the schematics about the non-existent differences between TRansformers product lines)

I AM a bit surprised to see Backstop get a new color set. My understanding was that these "dollar store" repacks were put together by what was available at whichever factory Hasbro was using when they needed to be made, but Backstop shows some development work went into him. That and the fact all three got new bios is very interesting.

#57 Blot

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 02:48 AM

Heh. Undermine undermines.

#58 Bass X0

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 06:10 AM

QUOTE(hardbot @ Jan 18 2011, 04:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wreckloose always remided me of a Beast Wars Basic.


Is it too much to hope for actual Beast Wars basics?

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#59 Powered Convoy

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 07:12 AM

Yes they're long gone.

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#60 Touch My Thighs

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:45 AM

Yay, Undermine is back!

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