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@  OrionPax44 : (25 August 2016 - 04:50 PM)

Is the main dance move him flashing you in beat with the music?

@  Broadside : (25 August 2016 - 04:50 PM)

http://i.imgur.com/qeoJpsf.jpg

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 August 2016 - 04:48 PM)

HEEEEEEEEEEY FOODSTAMP LAAADAAAY

@  Broadside : (25 August 2016 - 04:45 PM)

Oppa Homeless Style?

@  LV! : (25 August 2016 - 01:01 PM)

That guy had a perfectly nice home, he just didn't want the neighbors to see you with him.

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 August 2016 - 11:52 AM)

Did you at least buy him dinner?

@  Robowang : (25 August 2016 - 11:14 AM)

So I was making out with this random old homeless guy, and he stops and is all like "Why are you making out with me?" and I'm just like "Shut up, Homeless Guy."

@  Benbot : (25 August 2016 - 07:34 AM)

What?

@  MEDdMI : (25 August 2016 - 05:58 AM)

Aren't we the ones causing trouble for Kalidor?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.


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291 replies to this topic

#61 Creedence

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE(Nevermore @ Jan 7 2011, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who gets the final say? Majority vote?


I'm not sure why you're pursuing this expert/non-expert dichotomy. It's been explained numerous times in this thread that the information on Wikipedia is theoretically based on information found in reliable sources. What an expert says doesn't matter. What the sources say does.

Anybody can claim to be an expert. Sources are harder to falsify.

#62 Guest_mignash_*

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As the person who got the Timelines page deleted, I'd like to say some things.

I always saw Timelines as an "exclusive" thing, meaning that fewer people will be familiar with it, compared to other Transformers toylines.


There is a flaw in your logic. Obviously any subset of something will be LESS popular than the set as a whole, by definition. Question is... is the subset notable in itself. Pete pointed out that the 2010 Timelines comic was among the top 25 small publisher comics for the month it was released sorta proves you wrong huh? Someone other than a few hardcore Transformers fans are buying it.

I also don't see the proccupation on whether Shattered Glass is notable. it's just ONE YEARS STORY. Another year was a prequel to Beast Wars, another year a sequel to the Marvel Transformers G1 comic, etc. Even if Shattered Glass isn't notable, it's a subset of the subset!

Edited by mignash, 07 January 2011 - 04:35 PM.


#63 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 7 2011, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a flaw in your logic. Obviously any subset of something will be LESS popular than the set as a whole, by definition. Question is... is the subset notable in itself. Pete pointed out that the 2010 Timelines comic was among the top 25 small publisher comics for the month it was released sorta proves you wrong huh? Someone other than a few hardcore Transformers fans are buying it.
Given how small "small publishers" tend to be, being in the top 25 doesn't necessarily mean anyone other than "a few hardcore Transformers fans are buying it. I strongly dispute this assertion, let alone its relevance.

#64 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jan 8 2011, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have sold Tens of Thousands of items with the "Timelines logo" on it to both TF fans and the general public.


I don't think "Tens of Thousands" is very impressive if this is about an entire product line. With any regular non-exclusive TF stuff, wouldn't you expect just a single toy would easily get sold in that kind of numbers?

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 8 2011, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also don't see the proccupation on whether Shattered Glass is notable. it's just ONE YEARS STORY. Another year was a prequel to Beast Wars, another year a sequel to the Marvel Transformers G1 comic, etc. Even if Shattered Glass isn't notable, it's a subset of the subset!

I never argued wether or not Shattered Glass is in itself notable. I said that it does not seem to have "become a pop culture staple" as Pete described.

Edited by Item42, 07 January 2011 - 05:26 PM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#65 StarSaber

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 05:23 PM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Jan 7 2011, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Might Gaine @ Jan 7 2011, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank god for TFWiki.


I'd thank Walky but there's not much of a difference.


I'm pretty sure God is at least taller than Walky.

-SS (As far as egos go, they're probably evenly matched. icon-arcee.gif)


#66 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jan 8 2011, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have sold Tens of Thousands of items with the "Timelines logo" on it to both TF fans and the general public.


I don't think "Tens of Thousands" is very impressive if this is about an entire product line. With any regular non-exclusive TF stuff, wouldn't you expect just a single toy would easily get sold in that kind of numbers?

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 8 2011, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also don't see the proccupation on whether Shattered Glass is notable. it's just ONE YEARS STORY. Another year was a prequel to Beast Wars, another year a sequel to the Marvel Transformers G1 comic, etc. Even if Shattered Glass isn't notable, it's a subset of the subset!

I never argued wether or not Shattered Glass is in itself notable. I said that it does not seem to have "become a pop culture staple" as Pete described.


First, note that Timelines appears on box sets of toys. When you break it down by figure, we have produced hundreds of thousands of toys. So yes, that is impressive. Second, Timelines is one of the longest lasting lines produced within the brand. We are entering our sixth year.

I really don't want to argue about whether the product line produced by the company I work for should be on Wikipedia. I simply went there to reference something and was surprised that the article had been deleted.

I will be honest in saying I do not understand whatever standards you use. Timelines has been sold both online and in physical locations throughout the country and world. Takara has referenced things we have introduced through the Prose. TF Animated homaged two of our toys on the Animated cartoon. Shattered Glass is mentioned here:
http://en.wikipedia....similar_stories

I really could go on and on, but again, I am just merely saying I am surprised that the official offering of Hasbro's Transformers Collectors' Club does not deserve to have info available to the general web viewing public.

Edited by Pete@BotCon, 07 January 2011 - 06:03 PM.


#67 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jan 8 2011, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First, note that Timelines appears on box sets of toys. When you break it down by figure, we have produced hundreds of thousands of toys. So yes, that is impressive. Second, Timelines is one of the longest lasting lines produced within the brand. We are entering our sixth year.

I really don't want to argue about whether the product line produced by the company I work for should be on Wikipedia. I simply went there to reference something and was surprised that the article had been deleted.

I will be honest in saying I do not understand whatever standards you use. Timelines has been sold both online and in physical locations throughout the country and world. Takara has referenced things we have introduced through the Prose. TF Animated homaged two of our toys on the Animated cartoon. Shattered Glass is mentioned here:
http://en.wikipedia....similar_stories

I really could go on and on, but again, I am just merely saying I am surprised that the official offering of Hasbro's Transformers Collectors' Club does not deserve to have info available to the general web viewing public.


Shattered Glass getting mentioned on one page does not mean that Timelines deserves it's own article. Also, the references and homages you given are still within Transformers, so that says nothing about how it means anything outside the TF community and certainly does not show that Timelines stuff is a "pop culture staple".

Regarding my misconception on the availability of Timelines, well, I live in an area were you don't really get many TF comic books (not gonna specify where in the world, though). And considering how I don't see any Timelines on retail on Amazon.com (the ones on sale are user-generated sales, not from the distributors) or the "graphic novels" section on BigBadToyStore, I may get the impression that Timelines simply isn't available outside the fanclub website. Anyway, even if I was wrong about some things, it seems that Timelines still isn't notable enough for it's own WP article. Also, if you look here, Mignash already pointed out my mistake in the first "Deletion" discussion. And even that wasn't enough to convince people that the subject was notable. After the closing admin found out that "Divebomb" was a sockpuppet of a banned user, the closing admin decided to close as delete. Timelines was then put on deletion review and an admin decided to restore the page an start a new discussion not messed up by sockpuppets, and that discussion was closed as delete. On the second deletion review, people are still against recreation of the article.

And regarding the question posed by Pete on wether or not I'm "a Transformers person". Well, I kinda am. I know more TF stuff than most people. I'm not very active in the fandom since I usually have nothing good to add to discussions taking place. But I'm not really gonna tell much more about myself for now.

Edited by Item42, 07 January 2011 - 06:39 PM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#68 CORVUS

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:33 PM

Aren't all the nits gone by now? icon-fire.gif

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.

 

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#69 Jeysie

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:34 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, the references and homages you given are still within Transformers, so that says nothing about how it means anything outside the TF community and certainly does not show that Timelines stuff is a "pop culture staple".

See my post you ignored: http://www.allspark....s...t&p=1725799

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not very active in the fandom since I usually have nothing good to add to discussions taking place.

Considering you're the same one who also did more asking annoying questions on the Wiki about our policy which showed you didn't take the time to actually learn how things worked before being pesty... yeah, I agree with that sentiment. And, oh look, that's more or less exactly what you're doing here, too.

I don't know if Timelines really is impossible to show as being notable per Wikipedia's guidelines, but I do know many of the arguments you're making are kind of clueless.

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And considering how I don't see any Timelines on retail on Amazon.com (the ones on sale are user-generated sales, not from the distributors) or the "graphic novels" section on BigBadToyStore, I may get the impression that Timelines simply isn't available outside the fanclub website.

Because there's only one FunPub Comic TPB at the moment--Balancing Act--and it's currently out of print as far as I am aware. Places like Amazon, BBTS, etc. don't sell individual comic issues; those are almost always only sold through speciality comic shops and the publisher's own website. IDW's individual comic issues work exactly the same way.

#70 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:39 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shattered Glass getting mentioned on one page does not mean that Timelines deserves it's own article.


No, you are right. But that is just one of many references across the web.

And, I am sorry, because Amazon and BBTS does not carry the comic, that means what? The comic appears on Diamonds distribution list. Just through Diamond alone, we sold about 25,000 copies. Nothing to write home about, but nothing to scoff at as well. The comic appears on comic shelves throughout the country. Online, just search "Transformers Timelines comic for sale"

Since when are published works not notable?

Edited by Pete@BotCon, 07 January 2011 - 06:41 PM.


#71 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:46 PM

QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 8 2011, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, the references and homages you given are still within Transformers, so that says nothing about how it means anything outside the TF community and certainly does not show that Timelines stuff is a "pop culture staple".

See my post you ignored: http://www.allspark....s...t&p=1725799

I saw your post and it mentioned stuff on Deviantart. Not really proof. Perhaps a website that is a reference source of internet culture, like a website that records memes or somethin? That would do much better. Found nothin on Knowyourmeme.com as I mentioned. If it is any part of pop culture, it seems to be a really minor one.

QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 8 2011, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not very active in the fandom since I usually have nothing good to add to discussions taking place.

Considering you're the same one who also did more asking annoying questions on the Wiki about our policy which showed you didn't take the time to actually learn how things worked before being pesty... yeah, I agree with that sentiment. And, oh look, that's more or less exactly what you're doing here, too.

Regarding that, well, some of those things I asked about weren't actually spelled out on TF Wiki's guideline pages at the time, like wether or not Shattered Glass is a continuity "family" or just a subset of G1. As I recall, the SG article even had "Generation 1 continuity family" on it's navbox, while character articles said "Shattered Glass continuity family". "Ignore all standards" does not mean putting up contradicting descriptions.

Edited by Item42, 07 January 2011 - 06:53 PM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#72 Jeysie

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I saw your post and it mentioned stuff on Deviantart. Not really proof.

deviantART is a well-known art community outside of the TF niche fansites. Uh, how is that not proof that SG has wider exposure than the main "TF community"? (I don't know if it's sufficient proof, but it's definitely A proof.)

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Perhaps a website that is a reference source of internet culture, like a website that records memes or somethin? That would do much better. Found nothin on Knowyourmeme.com as I mentioned. If it is any part of pop culture, it seems to be a really minor one.

I already covered this in my other post:
QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 7 2011, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And they also should accept that for niche concepts, the fansites and industry sites ARE the knowledgeable sources. Places like the New York Times ain't going to write about comics or toys, but that doesn't mean that comics and toys are a subject that nobody's interested in. It just means those types of concerns have their own dedicated news sites separate from the mainstream media.

Granted, it's not like I don't know Wikipedia's guidelines are stupid and illogical and ignorant of how things actually are structured, and thus they're not going to budge; I'm just kind of puzzled that you seem to be acting like you don't realize they are stupid and illogical and ignorant.

QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 7 2011, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I recall, the SG article even had "Generation 1 continuity family" on it's navbox, while character articles said "Shattered Glass continuity family". "Ignore all standards" does not mean putting up contradicting descriptions.

And I thoroughly explained how it's not actually contradictory. We put up that notice because in-universe it's part of the G1 continuity family, but out-of-universe we structure it as if it were its own family because otherwise chronicling it would have been misleading at best.

#73 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:20 PM

QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 8 2011, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Granted, it's not like I don't know Wikipedia's guidelines are stupid and illogical and ignorant of how things actually are structured, and thus they're not going to budge; I'm just kind of puzzled that you seem to be acting like you don't realize they are stupid and illogical and ignorant.


Well, WP's rules mostly work considering it's aim. They would be "stupid and illogical" if it's not helping them be what they wish to be. As in, a website that leaves out a lot of information. Perhaps their mission is "stupid and illogical". Anyway, I don't think niche sites are prohibited. It's just that many sites have no fact checkers. Then again, there does seem to be people who seem totally opposed to anything fan oriented. I remember one person linked something called "WP:FANSITES" when calling a source unreliable, even though WP:FANSITES is part of their external links policy, not their reliable sources policy. But that seems more a problem with the people than the rules. I don't really know much about the Pat Lee stuff though, but I guess statements from people who worked for him would make it hard to keep the article neutral.
QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 8 2011, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And I thoroughly explained how it's not actually contradictory. We put up that notice because in-universe it's part of the G1 continuity family, but out-of-universe we structure it as if it were its own family because otherwise chronicling it would have been misleading at best.

So, navboxes are in-universe?

Edited by Item42, 07 January 2011 - 07:32 PM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#74 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:29 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't really know much about the Pat Lee stuff though, but I guess statements from people who work for him would make it hard to keep the article neutral.

If you knew much of anything about the Pat Lee stuff, you'd know that "work for him" bit should have been in the past tense. But, yes, neutrality is difficult when it comes to Lee.

#75 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE(G.B.Blackrock @ Jan 8 2011, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't really know much about the Pat Lee stuff though, but I guess statements from people who work for him would make it hard to keep the article neutral.

If you knew much of anything about the Pat Lee stuff, you'd know that "work for him" bit should have been in the past tense. But, yes, neutrality is difficult when it comes to Lee.

Fixed that. It was more of a typo or somethin. I have read the TFWiki articles on Dreamwave and Lee at least once.

Edited by Item42, 07 January 2011 - 07:33 PM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#76 TC Interbot

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, I don't see where someone would get the impression that Shattered Glass has "become a pop culture staple". There doesn't seem to be any Shattered Glass memes on Knowyourmeme.com, and the TV Tropes page does mention that most people aren't even aware that some of the stories on the fan club website are set in the SG universe.


I must be really out of the loop... that's the measure of pop culture these days? I thought it was being on YO! MTV Raps.

(Sees kids on lawn, gets hose)

And turn down that dirtystinkinrocknrollmusic....



Someday my dream project will come true...

#77 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 08:03 PM

QUOTE(TC Interbot @ Jan 8 2011, 08:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, I don't see where someone would get the impression that Shattered Glass has "become a pop culture staple". There doesn't seem to be any Shattered Glass memes on Knowyourmeme.com, and the TV Tropes page does mention that most people aren't even aware that some of the stories on the fan club website are set in the SG universe.


I must be really out of the loop... that's the measure of pop culture these days? I thought it was being on YO! MTV Raps.




Well, I just used knowyourmeme as an example. It has more lenient notability requirements than Wikipedia. It's more like, "if that something's not accepted there, it's certainly not gonna be accepted on WP" , kinda thing.

Anyway, regardless of all the errors made during the deletion discussions, the main point still stands. That the "reliable" third-party sources do not tell very much about Timelines, which was the main reason to get the article deleted. Plus, it wasn't just the people who voted delete that got things wrong, over here, Mignash apparently claimed that Master Collector was third party, even though the mastercollector site disclaimer mentions that it's run b y Fun Publications.

Furthermore, sorry for any offense that I caused. I was just enforcing the rules of one website unto itself. Nothing wrong there. If you don't like Wikipedia, well, you have a right to. That site is far from perfect. But within WP itself, attempting to delete articles on the basis of (lack of) notability is something pretty natural and should be taken as an attempt to improve the website.
QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jan 8 2011, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really could go on and on, but again, I am just merely saying I am surprised that the official offering of Hasbro's Transformers Collectors' Club does not deserve to have info available to the general web viewing public.

Timelines does "deserve to have info available to the general web viewing public". Just doesn't deserve an article in Wikipedia. Being removed from Wikipedia does not prevent people from learning sbout something. There are other websites that cover this stuff. TV Tropes for example has pages on the different Fun Pub universes. Which won't be deleted for notability issues, since that's what TV Tropes is for.

Edited by Item42, 08 January 2011 - 12:38 AM.

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.


#78 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 04:55 AM

QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Timelines does "deserve to have info available to the general web viewing public". Just doesn't deserve an article in Wikipedia. Being removed from Wikipedia does not prevent people from learning sbout something. There are other websites that cover this stuff. TV Tropes for example has pages on the different Fun Pub universes. Which won't be deleted for notability issues, since that's what TV Tropes is for.


I guess I am just confused. Timelines is a franchise that offers a toyline AND a comic series. I mean, does every single aspect of a line have to be reviewed for it to be notable? There are interviews and reviews online from non-tf sites. It is sold on store shelves to the general public. Characters inspired by the line have appeared on TV. Again, just very odd standards...



#79 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 05:59 AM

QUOTE(Rosicrucian @ Jan 7 2011, 03:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In case anyone is wondering, all of the above is why TFWiki.net exists. Just... this. Wikipedia has been consistently stupid about Transformers, and we decided we could do it better.


Kinda like the Mega Man Universe wiki on TheMMNetwork.com. Except TFWiki was probably more of an inspiration than Wikipedia.

I wonder if they're still grouping the Devils into their made-up "Bio Devil" group classification...

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

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#80 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:02 AM

QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jan 8 2011, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Item42 @ Jan 7 2011, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Timelines does "deserve to have info available to the general web viewing public". Just doesn't deserve an article in Wikipedia. Being removed from Wikipedia does not prevent people from learning sbout something. There are other websites that cover this stuff. TV Tropes for example has pages on the different Fun Pub universes. Which won't be deleted for notability issues, since that's what TV Tropes is for.


I guess I am just confused. Timelines is a franchise that offers a toyline AND a comic series. I mean, does every single aspect of a line have to be reviewed for it to be notable? There are interviews and reviews online from non-tf sites. It is sold on store shelves to the general public. Characters inspired by the line have appeared on TV. Again, just very odd standards...

Timelines-inspired stuff appearing in other TF media does not establish notability. It needs stuff entirely unaffiliated with Timelines, as in, not Transformers. Saying that Timelines stuff was in other TF media is as relevant as citing the Tsukasa Kadoya character as proof of notability for the Kamen Rider Spirits manga.

Also, what's required is extensive coverage. The "reliable" reviews found didn't have any plot synopsis, so the coverage is not "extensive".

And, to Jeysie, several dozen people on deviantart does not prove SG to be a significant pop culture thing. There's lots of artwork of the "Slender man" character, propagating the figure as an internet icon. Does that make him, a "pop culture staple"? Are Fate/stay night characters significant in pop culture just because people tend to throw around the word "GAR" as an adjective? Is the "My Immortal" fanfic story (and others like it) some major pop culture thing because of all the people reading it on Youtube?

I forgot that spaghetti was a pasta really.




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