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@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.


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179 replies to this topic

#1 Draange

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:06 PM

Pretty sure that there's no other topic on this (if there is I must be particularly oblivious)

TSA has ramped up "security" and America is is in a bit of an uproar. I don't know where to even begin so where do you all stand on this?
Personally I'm wishing that Amtrak had another line going through the midwest.

Mods: This might end up needing to be moved.

Edited by Draange, 15 November 2010 - 08:58 PM.


#2 MrBlud

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:01 PM

The massive intrusion into personal privacy, inane regulations, and pointless aggravation in no way matches the "safety benefit" or lack thereof.

The British had it right back during WWII.

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#3 Copper Bezel

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:09 PM

The protests are making the airlines and regulators look good, though - people refusing to fly because they don't want to walk through the scanners, where the security personnel - gasp - will theoretically be seeing a grainy, false-color image of their genitals.

High-speed rail cannot come fast enough, and if those projects get killed in the next couple of years ... yuck.

#4 Galenraff

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:48 PM

I'm thrilled that finally, FINALLY, there is an intrusion that's a step just far enough that regular, average people think it's too far and are getting into an uproar. The images aren't that grainy, albeit they are false-color, but they also very much ARE savable and ARE shared amongst TSA workers.

When the only options are "we see you naked" or "we grope your genitals" that's just wrong, and it makes me really really not want to fly.

The trouble is, that only works for a certain radius. If I go anywhere on the coasts, I don't have much of a choice, especially for business. 16 hour drives or train rides aren't a really viable alternative, no matter how despicable the TSA screenings are. And that's the problem - as wrong as this all is, and even though people are finally complaining, they'll still do it.

And you'll notice how after today's "don't grab my junk" incident, TSA was quick to issue their press release stating that the guy was detained, couldn't fly, AND may be charged in court AND charged $10,000. That's enough to keep people from causing trouble in line, speaking out, or really doing anything except shutting up and complying.

I'm afraid that people will just be upset for a bit, and then will get over it and obey.

Also totally agree on the need for high speed rail.

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#5 MintBerryCrunch

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:55 PM

Uhg.

Why can't the TSA ever take steps to provide ACTUAL security, rather than this theater play that merely gives the illusion of it to clueless people? America needs to grow a pair. You know what--flying is a risk. Any kind of travel carries some risk, and it's absurd to pretend that if every detail is scrutinized we can somehow fly risk free. How about screening checked baggage? To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) checked baggage screening is sporadic at best.
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#6 Mouse_Pad

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:00 PM

I'm definitely of the opinion that the TSA has gone too far. I tolerate it when I have to, but I sure as hell don't like it.

High-speed rail? Ha. Even in the dense northeast corridor, rail doesn't pay for itself. Besides, as soon as there's a bomb on the theoretical high-speed rail line, the nekkid scanners and groping will commence there.

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#7 Copper Bezel

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:45 PM

That's probably true, and I hadn't really considered it. I don't see any reason the system wouldn't pay for itself once it became an actual viable option, though. Like, let's take away all intranational flights and toll-free interstates and see how it goes.

As much as the fining sounded like a dick move, absurdly so, I definitely took a different message away from "Don't Grope Me, Bro." I really, genuinely don't think it's all that unreasonable, and frankly I don't see any grand difference between having to take off my shoes and belt and having to board naked - I'm more worried about the (basically tax-supported) cost of the scanners and, as MintBerry noted, the fact that they don't address any real problems. And yeah, there's the basic gut reaction, liberty, something, security, something, neither, something something.

Edited by CopperRelays, 15 November 2010 - 10:46 PM.


#8 Lisbon Virgo

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:01 PM

Given how close those mail bombs from Yemen got to us, does BS like the body scanners and enforced groping really mean anything at this point?
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#9 Dake

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE(Squared Circle @ Nov 15 2010, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Given how close those mail bombs from Yemen got to us, does BS like the body scanners and enforced groping really mean anything at this point?


Nope.

The TSA is security theater at its worst. Anyone intent on doing harm will find other means. Airport workers such as rampers, cleaners and the guy who buses tables at the Chili's Too get to by-pass security. TSA workers only have to pass through security once, when they come on shift (and no - they don't get microwaved or molested) and then they can come and go and "beep" all day long without a second glance.

Any one of those people could easily meet someone and bring something through.

I've seen the "Enhanced Pat-down" though have yet to be subject to the groping so far and it's exactly as invasive as reports suggest.

I think as a guy it's bad enough, but guys imagine your moms, sisters or daughters. Now imagine a stranger forcing her to stand there as they run their hands up her legs and touch her vagina, place their hands on, between and below her breasts and grasping her buttocks. If someone did that to a woman in the mall or standing at a bus stop, they'd be arrested for sexual assault. Suddenly it's become "simply something you have to put up with to fly".
 
 
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#10 Rust

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:17 PM

Well if TSA wants to see me naked, they're going to have to buy me dinner first.

Edited by Rust, 15 November 2010 - 11:18 PM.

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#11 Copper Bezel

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:52 PM

I doubt these security personnel much care for their new jobs inspecting penises all day, but if you really feel a need to protest, there's an old-fashioned way of doing that. Put yourself in a happy place and think about someone nice, yeah?

Edit: But yes, seriously, are we going to spend billions of dollars on every specific thing that happens so that we can prove that if it could possibly happen again, it wouldn't? Are we really so intent on proving that we're just one step behind terror at every turn? Idiocy. I suppose they'll be banning commercial printer cartridges next. Hell, they might just go ahead and make it that brand. When a bomb is hidden inside a chicken dinner plate on the in-flight meal, they'll switch to beef.

Edited by CopperRelays, 15 November 2010 - 11:56 PM.


#12 Dake

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:24 AM

QUOTE(CopperRelays @ Nov 15 2010, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose they'll be banning commercial printer cartridges next. Hell, they might just go ahead and make it that brand.

Already done... really.
 
 
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#13 Copper Bezel

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:47 AM

Wow. I really can't come up with the next logical step in "pointlessly specific," then. I'll follow the regulators' own example and wait for them to provide it.

#14 CT-5555

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 03:24 AM

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#15 Rhinox

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:20 AM

How much money did we spend bailing out our airline companies? Yeah, kiss that investment goodbye.

At some point, we are going to have to accept that flying comes with risks. Risks that cannot be totally mitigated through security screenings. If some psycho out there wants to blow up a plane or kill people he will, and no amount of security can stop them all. in practicality, these scanners and gropings do nothing but infuriate and embarass everyone involved.

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#16 CORVUS

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:31 AM

Thus far, I have never flown. Looks like I won't get started anytime soon.

This is absolutely, positively asinine. I too am glad that people are in an uproar, but like Galen, I don't believe they'll complain for long. After a while, the majority will shrug and deal, and keep on bleating their way through the security lines like complicit sheep. Hopefully I'm wrong there, but I fear I'm not.

Edited by ^o^CORVUS^o^, 16 November 2010 - 10:32 AM.

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#17 Donocropolis

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE(Dake @ Nov 15 2010, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've seen the "Enhanced Pat-down" though have yet to be subject to the groping so far and it's exactly as invasive as reports suggest.

I think as a guy it's bad enough, but guys imagine your moms, sisters or daughters. Now imagine a stranger forcing her to stand there as they run their hands up her legs and touch her vagina, place their hands on, between and below her breasts and grasping her buttocks. If someone did that to a woman in the mall or standing at a bus stop, they'd be arrested for sexual assault. Suddenly it's become "simply something you have to put up with to fly".


Call me crazy or a conspiricy nut or what have you, but I get the feeling that the "enhanced patdowns" are calculated to be intentionally as horrendous as they are so that people will see the body scanners as the better alternative and start using them. After a while, the "lesser of two evils" will become just a thing you do.

#18 Mouse_Pad

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:57 AM

QUOTE(^o^CORVUS^o^ @ Nov 16 2010, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thus far, I have never flown. Looks like I won't get started anytime soon.

This is absolutely, positively asinine. I too am glad that people are in an uproar, but like Galen, I don't believe they'll complain for long. After a while, the majority will shrug and deal, and keep on bleating their way through the security lines like complicit sheep. Hopefully I'm wrong there, but I fear I'm not.


Call me a sheep if you like, but I'm not going to let a few uncomfortable moments with a TSA agent prevent me from experiencing life outside my immediate area.

The last time I flew out of Memphis, I got both the nekkid photo and the molestation. It probably wasn't the "enhanced" molestation. When I flew back, out of LaGuardia, I didn't get either. Does that make sense?

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#19 Dake

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE(Donocropolis @ Nov 16 2010, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Dake @ Nov 15 2010, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've seen the "Enhanced Pat-down" though have yet to be subject to the groping so far and it's exactly as invasive as reports suggest.

I think as a guy it's bad enough, but guys imagine your moms, sisters or daughters. Now imagine a stranger forcing her to stand there as they run their hands up her legs and touch her vagina, place their hands on, between and below her breasts and grasping her buttocks. If someone did that to a woman in the mall or standing at a bus stop, they'd be arrested for sexual assault. Suddenly it's become "simply something you have to put up with to fly".


Call me crazy or a conspiricy nut or what have you, but I get the feeling that the "enhanced patdowns" are calculated to be intentionally as horrendous as they are so that people will see the body scanners as the better alternative and start using them. After a while, the "lesser of two evils" will become just a thing you do.


Nothing nutty about it. TSA reps have been quoted as saying exactly that. They want it to be so invasive that people will elect to be nuked instead. Oh, and remember when they said that those images are not stored in any way? Looks like they may have been exaggerating a bit.

Edited by Dake, 16 November 2010 - 12:13 PM.

 
 
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#20 Donocropolis

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE(Dake @ Nov 16 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Donocropolis @ Nov 16 2010, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Dake @ Nov 15 2010, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've seen the "Enhanced Pat-down" though have yet to be subject to the groping so far and it's exactly as invasive as reports suggest.

I think as a guy it's bad enough, but guys imagine your moms, sisters or daughters. Now imagine a stranger forcing her to stand there as they run their hands up her legs and touch her vagina, place their hands on, between and below her breasts and grasping her buttocks. If someone did that to a woman in the mall or standing at a bus stop, they'd be arrested for sexual assault. Suddenly it's become "simply something you have to put up with to fly".


Call me crazy or a conspiricy nut or what have you, but I get the feeling that the "enhanced patdowns" are calculated to be intentionally as horrendous as they are so that people will see the body scanners as the better alternative and start using them. After a while, the "lesser of two evils" will become just a thing you do.


Nothing nutty about it. TSA reps have been quoted as saying exactly that. They want it to be so invasive that people will elect to be nuked instead. Oh, and remember when they said that those images are not stored in any way? Looks like they may have been exaggerating a bit.


So, basically they're admitting that they're not feeling you up to in any way make you safer, they're feeling you up as punishment for not wanting to use their newest scanner? In a related story, Walmart has instituted a policy under which if you leave the store without buying anything, you have to watch while they open-mouth kiss your mother.

Edited by Donocropolis, 16 November 2010 - 12:46 PM.




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