Jump to content


Entertainment Earth


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 02:20 AM)

Why do you hate yourself?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (24 August 2016 - 12:45 AM)

I still need to read everything after Vol. 1 of RG1...

@  Telly : (23 August 2016 - 11:47 PM)

i really wouldve liked to see rg1 pick up where the marvel run left off (or just a couple years after), instead of jumping 20 years. i wanna see how shit went down on earth

@  Dracula : (23 August 2016 - 09:54 PM)

After RG1, I'd just as soon have nobody ever touch the marvel continuity again


Photo
- - - - -

Hasbro Transformers Q&A Answers returned!


158 replies to this topic

#1 NightViper

NightViper

    Ehhhhh...

  • Retired Staff
  • 37211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIBFIR

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:44 AM

1) It has been recently revealed that Megatronus (The Fallen) will be in Transformers Prime story line. Is the Fallen from "Prime" the same Fallen that was in the movie and the same that was in the original Dreamwave comic? Basically, are they a multiversal singularity or are the all "different" Fallens?

QUOTE(Hasbro)
The official story of the original 13 and specifically The Fallen has not been explored in the modern continuity that Transformers War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime are a part of. Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity. Going forward in the modern continuity there is 1 Fallen.


2) In a previous QandA it was revelaed that one of the original 13 Transformers was female, this raises the question, does the Hasbro TF creative team have a stance on what the difference between Male and Female Transformers are? Aside from asthetics and characterization that is? Is it physical at all or related to the nature of their sparks?

QUOTE(Hasbro)
Yes the Hasbro team that has been charged with creating the Modern continuity have built into the story plan what creates ?Female? styled Transformers. The whole explanation will be explored further in future comics, novels, and entertainment.


#2 NightViper

NightViper

    Ehhhhh...

  • Retired Staff
  • 37211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIBFIR

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:45 AM

War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime NOT part of the multiverse?

#3 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 10851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:48 AM

Hasbro: "Thank you for your interest in TRANSFORMERS ® brand fiction! TRANSFORMERS ® brand fiction is diverse and differs from medium to medium while still being consistent to the core of the brand."

#4 LV!

LV!

    Ol' 55

  • Citizen
  • 8495 posts
  • Location:OH

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:48 AM

QUOTE(Hasbro)
Yes the Hasbro team that has been charged with creating the Modern continuity have built into the story plan what creates ?Female? styled Transformers. The whole explanation will be explored further in future comics, novels, and entertainment.

Dear Hasbro: I would not like to see the explanation of what makes male and female Transformers different "explored" in your vaguely-worded "entertainment".

#5 Guest_mignash_*

Guest_mignash_*
  • Guests

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:49 AM

So the answers were "you don't know and we may tell you some day, bye!"

#6 Somebody

Somebody
  • Citizen
  • 2183 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::Vehicon

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE(NightViper @ Nov 1 2010, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime NOT part of the multiverse?

Sure they are. What I think we've just had is an explicit rejection of the Lee/FP *model* of the multiverse, in favour of a multiverse where multiversal singularities don't exist, and they just have counterparts - meaning there's one Fallen in the Prime ["modern"] continuity, unrelated to DW Fallen and Movie Fallen, because the writers of WfC, Exodus and Prime don't want to write around stuff that happened in earlier fiction.

#7 Bass X0

Bass X0
  • Citizen
  • 42669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Faction::Decepticon

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:55 AM

Probably should have asked about the toys...

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#8 Master Fwiffo

Master Fwiffo

    HUZZAH!

  • Retired Staff
  • 18597 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Lost Light
  • Faction::Minicon

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:59 AM

That first one sounds like a pretty important answer - the death knell for Multiversal Singularities (except maybe Unicron and Primus). IMO, that's a very good thing, as now we don't have to argue about Alpha Trion anymore.

ty3jHaa.jpg


#9 Lukeblast

Lukeblast
  • Staff
  • 14378 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Blasty Zone
  • Faction::Cannonball's Pirate Crew

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:00 PM

Well now, this is interesting and unexpected. Turns out that this mythology they've been building doesn't necessarily retcon into everything after all.

Extrapolating a bit from this, some continuities may honestly, actually lack the Multiversal Singularity characters... this might be used to explain how Alpha Trion, for example, fits into the Thirteen despite it not making sense in respect to some of the more... unique versions of the character. WWI Fallen is not necessarily ROTF Fallen. Animated may indeed be without Unicron and Primus, as was intended. Cybertron does not always have to be Primus.

So apparently "Multiversal" literally means "in multiple universes" rather than "in every universe." The real question now is whether Hasbro's intention is "it applies unless we say it doesn't" or "it applies if we say it does"... That determines how much of a wrinkle this turns out to be.

#10 SkyQuake

SkyQuake

    Bettin' on the Ponies.

  • Citizen
  • 1738 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:01 PM

Q: Does this multiverse concept exist? A: What color is their money?
Does your combiner feel unfulfilled, and unplugged? Well, you don't have to let that happen. Get *IncrediPlugs*

#11 ZacWilliam1

ZacWilliam1
  • Citizen
  • 13818 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ct. USA
  • Faction::RIRFIB

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:03 PM

Those answers are vague enough to mean anything.

They don't negate a multiverse necessarily, as they don't really address it...

But they said that they don't feel beholden to past versions of things (The Fallen) which could maybe negate the Multiversal singularity idea...

Yet they also say that going forward there is only 1 Fallen, which could be interpreted as saying that his IS a multiversal singularity after all.

Not super illuminating. IMO.
Ever wonder about the speed of Turbofoxes?
Or the proverbial ailerons of Titanium Moosebots?

*Visit the one and only Cybertronic Bestiary.
For a mechazoologic tour of the mechanimals of Cybertron.


#12 Blade Raider

Blade Raider
  • Citizen
  • 1674 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE(Hasbro)
Yes the Hasbro team that has been charged with creating the Modern continuity have built into the story plan what creates ?Female? styled Transformers. The whole explanation will be explored further in future comics, novels, and entertainment.

Just keep Furman away from it, okay?

QUOTE(Somebody @ Nov 1 2010, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure they are. What I think we've just had is an explicit rejection of the Lee/FP *model* of the multiverse, in favour of a multiverse where multiversal singularities don't exist, and they just have counterparts - meaning there's one Fallen in the Prime ["modern"] continuity, unrelated to DW Fallen and Movie Fallen, because the writers of WfC, Exodus and Prime don't want to write around stuff that happened in earlier fiction.

If that's true, I will personally hug every employee at Hasbro. I f'ing hate multiversal singularities.

#13 NightViper

NightViper

    Ehhhhh...

  • Retired Staff
  • 37211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIBFIR

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:10 PM

TFormers' Q&A:

http://tformers.com/...14593/news.html

QUOTE
In the case of recent series with supporting shows (e.g., Animated, Prime), do you feel that the 'cartoon first, toy line later' approach is the most viable and beneficial to fans, as well as sales of the product?

With the release of Animated Rodimus Minor and Ironhide, can you provide any insight for any of the other Animated figures that we have previously seen (e.g., Wingblade Optimus Prime, Blackout)?


#14 DeltaSeeker

DeltaSeeker
  • Supporter
  • 4414 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:11 PM

I see both as the same answer: "No clue, we're making it up as we go."

#15 Bass X0

Bass X0
  • Citizen
  • 42669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Faction::Decepticon

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:12 PM

Why doesn't Hasbro release a few Animated toys in Generations or Reveal The Shield; like one every few waves or so?

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#16 Blade Raider

Blade Raider
  • Citizen
  • 1674 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE(DeltaSeeker @ Nov 1 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I see both as the same answer: "No clue, we're making it up as we go."

Worked for Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio.

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Nov 1 2010, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why doesn't Hasbro release a few Animated toys in Generations or Reveal The Shield; like one every few waves or so?

I know. There's only 2 1/2 molds left (almost forgot that BB), just slap 'em in a box already. I don't wanna pay $50+ for just armor bits.

Edited by Blade Raider, 01 November 2010 - 12:19 PM.


#17 Kil

Kil
  • Supporter
  • 7899 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Haven, CT, USA

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE
2) In a previous QandA it was revelaed that one of the original 13 Transformers was female, this raises the question, does the Hasbro TF creative team have a stance on what the difference between Male and Female Transformers are? Aside from asthetics and characterization that is? Is it physical at all or related to the nature of their sparks?

QUOTE(Hasbro)
Yes the Hasbro team that has been charged with creating the Modern continuity have built into the story plan what creates “Female” styled Transformers. The whole explanation will be explored further in future comics, novels, and entertainment.



Ugh. Why do this? Well, I mean I know why, because the fandom keeps demanding it, but still... do not want.

Note how they're only suggesting they're going to be explaining "female styled Transformers." Because, you know, male styled Transformers don't need an explanation because male = neutral = default (= sexist bulljive).

QUOTE(NightViper @ Nov 1 2010, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime NOT part of the multiverse?

QUOTE(Master Fwiffo @ Nov 1 2010, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That first one sounds like a pretty important answer - the death knell for Multiversal Singularities (except maybe Unicron and Primus).


Whaaaa? I'm not reading anything like any of that into it.

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Nov 1 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those answers are vague enough to mean anything.



Yeah, these are super vague, "look guys, we're just concentrating on building our new universe right now, okay? We're not really thinking about past stuff or the multiverse or whatever" answers. There's no negation or death knells in there, just indifference.

Edited by Kil, 01 November 2010 - 12:24 PM.

lord-imperious-delirious.jpg


#18 Daggor

Daggor

    Rogue Decepticon

  • Supporter
  • 2184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::Decepticon

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Nov 1 2010, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Probably should have asked about the toys...


Precisely. I don't see the need to explore the "why?" behind male/female TFs. From a character point of view, TFs have to be human enough for the audience to relate to. If they were all emotionless, genderless drones speaking in monotone, there would be no story. I don't want a "where babies come from" explanation gumming up the fiction.

While I am a fan of Furman , the whole "budding" thing should be left in the gutter.
Follow me on Twitter, why not? @dopponline

#19 NightViper

NightViper

    Ehhhhh...

  • Retired Staff
  • 37211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIBFIR

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE(Daggor @ Nov 1 2010, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Nov 1 2010, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Probably should have asked about the toys...


Precisely.


Check out when the questions were submitted. What question about the toys did you have back then that hasn't been answered by now?

Keeping in mind that the answers to those questions would have to be better than the fiction answers we got..

#20 Kil

Kil
  • Supporter
  • 7899 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Haven, CT, USA

Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:30 PM

Also, I would add that this...

QUOTE
Going forward in the modern continuity there is 1 Fallen.



...is kinda the opposite of a death knell for multiversal singularties, because him being a multiversal singularty means there's only been one Fallen all along. And in the "modern continuity" there's still only one of him. So. Yeah. No change there.

Edited by Kil, 01 November 2010 - 12:36 PM.

lord-imperious-delirious.jpg




Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users