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@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.


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Slides of figures shown at Botcon.


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#341 Powered Convoy

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:42 PM

I must be the only person that doesn't have a problem with the panels falling off. At first I did, but after a few times of transforming him that was it.

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#342 Smitty

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE(Powered Convoy @ Aug 5 2010, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must be the only person that doesn't have a problem with the panels falling off. At first I did, but after a few times of transforming him that was it.

Randy

I can get them to not pop off most of the time, although it has been a wile.

I'm not a fan of voting on peoples posts. it just seems very passive aggressive to click 'down vote' and not add anything to the thread. and up votes are exactly the same. to my mind the whole point of a forum is discussion and being able to just easily agree or disagree takes the discussion out of the equation.


#343 Shadewing

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE(Smitty @ Aug 5 2010, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Powered Convoy @ Aug 5 2010, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must be the only person that doesn't have a problem with the panels falling off. At first I did, but after a few times of transforming him that was it.

Randy

I can get them to not pop off most of the time, although it has been a wile.


Same here. I have to wonder how much for some of these guys are using to make them come off as much as they claim.

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#344 Canthros

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:27 PM

QUOTE(Apostrophe @ Aug 5 2010, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why does the Prowl mold get so much hate? Except for the neck, I think it may be my favorite from Universe 2.0.

The neck is bad, the shoulders are floppy, the rear window is painted, the transformation's a pain, nothing pegs together or clicks in place in robot mode, huge gap in chest that's visible from the side ...

Prowl's a mediocre mold that has already been repainted twice, from a line where we've got some very solid molds that haven't been repainted at all (not counting Takara vs. Hasbro or convention exclusives).

It's less that the figure is terrible than that have been so many better ones released in the same timeframe. I'm glad we got the obligatory repaints of Prowl out of the way, but I don't really want to see the mold ever again.
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#345 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE(Database @ Aug 5 2010, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Smitty @ Aug 5 2010, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Powered Convoy @ Aug 5 2010, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must be the only person that doesn't have a problem with the panels falling off. At first I did, but after a few times of transforming him that was it.

Randy

I can get them to not pop off most of the time, although it has been a wile.


Same here. I have to wonder how much for some of these guys are using to make them come off as much as they claim.

Admittedly I only have the BotCon versions of the mold, but I haven't had this problem either.

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#346 Walky

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:57 PM

My BotCon versions of the mold are the best-quality versions of that mold that I own. Rapido's tolerances are perfect, to the point that his door wings have never popped off during transformation, and Streetwise ain't much worse. It's the retail versions that are much more annoying.

#347 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:34 PM

That's weird. With most of the molds I did own already, the BotCon versions are looser.

QUOTE(orionpax44 @ Jun 24 2012, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Childrens toys? whaa the boxes seriously say ages 5+ I consider myself the plus.
QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Sep 9 2012, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're talking to ▲ndrusi. Assume everything that he posts is snark.

#348 ShadowMan024

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:08 PM

QUOTE(Apostrophe @ Aug 5 2010, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why does the Prowl mold get so much hate? Except for the neck, I think it may be my favorite from Universe 2.0.

It's definitely one of the better, less clunky molds. It's no Hound or Cyclonus, but it's elss complicated than Sunnysides 9for me) while being a good fig.

Then again, my only experience with the mold is Streetstar.

Transformers is a brand that really has something for everyone. We are a darn lucky fandom.


#349 mx-01 archon

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:28 PM

I love the Prowl mold. I got all three Universe decoes, then wound up getting all three Henkei. Then Rapido. Then a second Henkei Silverstreak to chrome up my Rapido (and for the black elbows and hands. Rapido's red parts kinda clashed there. Wish they would've molded all the grey bits in the aqua, though, for closer accuracy to the original toy).

I think my worst experience with the mold was my Universe Silverstreak. The pin joint on the doors was so tight, it was a fargone conclusion that the doors would just fly off instead everytime I transformed him. No problems whatsoever with any of the others.

#350 BB Shockwave

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:40 AM

I hate transforming him... part of it is the sticky paint on his clear parts - that's an issue even with the Henkei one. Part are the car-doors. It's a pain to pose the arms in a very specific place to be able to rotate the whole car door and the attached side/front of car to the back, where you can close it. Argh...

Add to this, that Prowl is my favourite Autobot and I have been waiting for a new Prowl toy for ages. The car-window thing severly limits playing with the toy, which I do often (I love transforming TFs while watching a movie at home or waiting for the system to load, at work).

Here is hoping the Legends one will be less kibbley.


QUOTE(ChessPieceFace @ Aug 5 2010, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All in all, it was a very disappointing toy to me. G1 Prowl is my favorite Transformer design and deco, and the Classics version just doesn't measure up. Now that I've added Reprolabels, Silverstreak's gun and Smokescreen's launchers and thighs, he's much better... but still, far from what I was hoping to see when they first announced the toy at BotCon 2007.



The Henkei one is superior in paint, especially the chrome makes him look very cool. But I rather just display him as a robot then bother with the transformations.


QUOTE(ExVee @ Aug 5 2010, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm also of the opinion that between the new car molds Universe gave us, Prowl and co. pale against Sidestreaker by really failing to do anything special at all. They're competently articulated, reasonably solid toys, but there's no awesome thing they do, or fun play pattern built in. It's a series of unremarkable cars that all transform the same way and are almost 100% physically identical. They just get boring at some point.

It's not like the Seekers escape it either. Most of the time I don't understand why there isn't a greater amount of vocal hate toward them. Except jets are arguably cooler than cars, but it can't just be that, right?


I don't get this "bad deco" claims. Classics/Universe is a line specifically created to bring back old, G1-2/BW/etc. characters in better articulated bodies. Considering G1 Bluestreak and Smokescreen shared the same body as Prowl, they were the logical redecoes. Classics was never intended to give us a totally random new character just because his paintjob would have been better. (And imagine the fan outrage at say, a green Prowl repaint called, say "Lumberjack")

Edited by BB Shockwave, 06 August 2010 - 05:46 AM.

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#351 Daytonus

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Aug 6 2010, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(And imagine the fan outrage at say, a green Prowl repaint called, say "Lumberjack")

The sheer audacity of the thing makes me want it.

#352 Mouse_Pad

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:27 AM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Aug 5 2010, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My BotCon versions of the mold are the best-quality versions of that mold that I own. Rapido's tolerances are perfect, to the point that his door wings have never popped off during transformation, and Streetwise ain't much worse. It's the retail versions that are much more annoying.


Same here. Streetstar and Rapido are great. I can usually even transform my Prowl without the panels popping off. But on Silverstreak, the swivel is too tight compared to the ball joint, so it's almost impossible to transform him without the panels popping off. I never bought Smokescreen, partly because I was so annoyed with Silverstreak.

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#353 ExVee

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:02 PM

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Aug 6 2010, 05:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get this "bad deco" claims. Classics/Universe is a line specifically created to bring back old, G1-2/BW/etc. characters in better articulated bodies. Considering G1 Bluestreak and Smokescreen shared the same body as Prowl, they were the logical redecoes. Classics was never intended to give us a totally random new character just because his paintjob would have been better. (And imagine the fan outrage at say, a green Prowl repaint called, say "Lumberjack")


Look, this is really simple. The Prowl mold family is a boring toy because it doesn't do anything interesting. It even has elements making it not very fun to transform. And it never even had the benefit of an attractive catchy deco in its Hasbro releases. Smokescreen *could* have been, but the deco design was what it was. My whole intent was to point out these factors as one possible reason people were expressing hate on these toys. Too many, too frequently, not interesting enough.

Besides, it's not an all-or-nothing game, either. One needn't adhere slavishly in order to maintain links between characters, especially if that may prove detrimental to the toy. Silverstreak already wasn't duplicating the G1 toy's colors, or he'd be solid silver. Which wouldn't have helped at all either. (really, just to be funny they should have done Silverstreak with blue sides and silver top.) Prowl I can handwave, honestly. He's not supposed to be interesting. icon-fire.gif Plus you're either going to be drawn to a police deco or you're not, and if it's just the one instance that may come across as a little bland, that's probably okay. But it's running in the family now to a point where I'd be just as happy to never see a use of this mold ever again.

I have hopes for Jazz to be more interesting in some capacity, but even if he isn't we have good odds for a redeco to have some greater appeal.

#354 Powered Convoy

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:32 PM

Jazz has flip out speakers in robot and car mode, he's already more interesting. icon-hotrod.gif

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#355 ExVee

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:21 PM

Exactly. And if it gets around to Ricochet, even if it omits a Targetmaster or same-styled gun like Scourge, if the toy can hold 5mm pegs I've got spares to outfit with. Plus at least black car with flame deco is also a somewhat interesting appearance.

It makes me sad Hot Shot is "Yellow Car From Armada" automatically and so "Ricochet/Stepper Homage From RiD" is off the table.

#356 Cat

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE(Daytonus @ Aug 6 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Aug 6 2010, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(And imagine the fan outrage at say, a green Prowl repaint called, say "Lumberjack")

The sheer audacity of the thing makes me want it.


Lumberjack sounds okay.

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#357 Shadewing

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE(Mecha KJ @ Aug 6 2010, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Daytonus @ Aug 6 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Aug 6 2010, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(And imagine the fan outrage at say, a green Prowl repaint called, say "Lumberjack")

The sheer audacity of the thing makes me want it.


Lumberjack sounds okay.

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Only if he's a British singing crossdresser. icon-waspy.gif

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#358 Canthros

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:42 PM

Like his dear papa.

Edited by Canthros, 06 August 2010 - 10:43 PM.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.