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Botcon 2010 SUCKED!


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#141 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Jul 20 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suggest, instead, that you donate to Charity because Beast Wars is awesome.

I will not be doing an official tally of donations or anything, but the Allspark is welcome to. I have to catch a plane.


I'll donate another $10, this time to Walky's charity, when the Orlando charity gets to $250.

If people keep throwing up charity's I could end up in trouble...

EDIT: Changed my mind after reading Walky's post. Will be donating $10 to Walky's charity regardless. Hopefully on Tuesday we will see BOTH the Tom Croom explanation AND the David Willis.

So, I think people should donate to BOTH charities! EVERYONE wins.

Edited by Pete@BotCon, 20 July 2010 - 11:18 AM.


#142 Galenraff

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:47 AM

Pete, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I don't believe anyone should donate to the charity through the Tom Croom site. All that does is empower this incredibly reprehensible behavior, and encourage more poor citizenship. Please donate to charity if you are willing and able. But please don't do it through him. His opinion (which is all this is about in the end) is simply NOT that special. I would urge you to donate to this or any other charity straight-up, completely avoiding going through these guys. Walky's message is dead-on, and he includes links to a couple of other great charities.

These guys are some real pieces of work. They say that the secret to "winning" this argument is buried in that content, and now they're demanding we pay to see it. Think about that. Demanding money. To hear their SUBJECTIVE opinion. Because their opinion is just *so* special and important. icon-primal.gif Give me a hugging break. This isn't in the spirit of giving, it's not about helping others, this isn't about charity at all!

They know they can't ask us to pay them straight up, because god forbid they end up looking like massive tools, right? So they think this makes it okay. It's still manipulative and shameful. It's still demanding we pay up or we don't hear their opinions. If they wanted to raise money for charity, they should have done it because they wanted to raise money for charity, not have the charity be secondary to them wanting to lord their opinion over anyone.

And yes, I feel I'm in the position to make that sort of a call about how wrong these guys are. You might recall a few months ago we organized a charity event that spanned the whole fandom and raised $2340 for the Hasbro Children's Hospital. Y'know why we did it? Because we felt like doing it. It started as a logistical exercise to buy the Hasbro catalog, but because so many people felt like giving, we turned it into a charity. It grew out of literally nowhere, and is something we can all be incredibly proud of because each and every donation came from the heart and generosity of everyone.

Some charity is better than no charity, but the best charity is the kind that comes from a place of positivity, from the heart, and from generosity. What we did a few months ago made me really proud to be a fan in this community. What these guys are doing makes me feel dirty, and reinforces all the negative stereotypes of self-important fanboy nerds. Please support charities, but do it because you want to, don't do it because of these guys.

EDIT: Reduced the monkey count. icon-arcee.gif

Edited by Galenraff, 20 July 2010 - 12:22 PM.

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#143 Daytonus

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE
For years, we?ve presented an effective argument as to why Beast Wars kills the franchise...


That's already completely off-base, so I'm not gonna pay to see the rest of his nonsense. Without Beast Wars, there would have been no more franchise. End of story.

Everyone can now go give money of their own accord. Yay!

#144 Big Show

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:21 PM

Gal, your post fails because it had not one, but TWO Optimus Primal emoticons in it.
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And SUPERbuying is not quite as extreme as buying the HUG outta something.
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#145 Wheelimus

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:22 PM

How about we counter that, instead of him writing a one sided pile of garbage that only one poor soul among us will actually read (for the bullet points of stupid) if we raise money he instead agrees to a one on one debate on the subject. Against Walky. We'd be happy to set up a one time use forum where only this dullard and Walky can post. Moderation free. Bring your popcorn people. icon-ironhide.gif

Or against, well, just about anyone of us if David is busy. Hell, most of our MORON class could probably knock this one out of the park...

#146 Jim S

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:23 PM

BotCon is a fantastic convention. My first one was in 1997, and I've missed exactly one since then. On the whole, it just gets better and better.

It's not all that expensive if all you want to do is walk-in, (what, about $40 for Saturday/Sunday) and it's not all that expensive if you preregister when you consider that you're getting a beautiful box of five exclusive toys and an extra bagged toy. These toys invariably sell for $350-$500 IMMEDIATELY after you buy them, so if you're not a toy guy you could go to BotCon for free (excluding hotel and airline costs) every year. But really, they're so lovely that why would you want to give them up? There is so much love and attention put into the choice of molds, names, decos and bios that I wouldn't think of selling them.

There are always a plethora of guests, including Hasbro representatives, voice actors from various eras, TV and comic writers, comic and packaging artists, musicians, and more. These are A-Listers, folks.

Hasbro is fully supportive of the convention, which allows us to get plenty of information months before everyone else. We can literally talk to the people who plan out the toyline and bend their ears at the bar or at the Hasbro booth, giving them our feedback directly.

Could they do some things better? Sure, of course they could, there is always room for improvement. I will grant that the lines have been long and perhaps a bit disorganized in the past, but that's a symptom of the rapid growth of the convention. (Although, this year they really upped their game and cut the waiting times roughly in half, I'd say. Kudos, guys!) I personally find the comics to be one of the most important aspects of the brand, and wish that there was a bit more outreach from BotCon to IDW, Titan and individual comic creators. Simon Furman hasn't attended in a few years, which seems like a shame to me. There was also, of course, the online registration system thing. Overall, though, these are mere nitpicks.

So, given all that, why are we spending so much energy on a few haters? Haters gonna hate. There will always be someone who doesn't like your work, but the vast majority of us realize that BotCon is a fantastic con, thrown by people who give 100% of their effort 100% of the time. It shows.

-JimS




#147 Galenraff

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Big Show @ Jul 20 2010, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gal, your post fails because it had not one, but TWO Optimus Primal emoticons in it.

Fair point, I fixed it.

Lord knows I'd hate to have too much OptiFAIL PriFAIL in my post. icon-fire.gif

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#148 Thylacine2000

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:31 PM


And if the kids die, our Professional Full-Time Year-Round Convention Attendees, Topic/Speaker Matchers, and Trivia Providers will call that a BotFAIL too.

This is a sick abomination of an extortion attempt. A real man would have admitted two weeks ago "yeah, I shouldn't have flamed the Botcon panels since I never saw them" and that would have been that. Human lives are not wagering points in Internet arguments (if you can even call "I have a perspective but refuse to detail or justify it" an argument) and the number of tears on the faces of the parents of dying children does not--even through the most perverted calculus--translate into extra facts supporting the cases of cranks and con-artists.

It's like saying you've built a perpetual motion machine, calling Einstein a stupid hack who pales next to your genius, and when asked for proof of your invention insisting that all those requesting it must first make a bet on BumFights.com to see which old drunk gets his nose broken first. Normal people do not behave that way.

The whole point of this discussion from the very beginning had been that a "panel" about the piece of crap PS2 game from 7 years ago and making the transformation sound isn't worth a nickel of attendance fees or a slot on the program. It certainly is not worth A HUMAN LIFE.

Edited by Thylacine2000, 20 July 2010 - 12:37 PM.

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#149 Big Show

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:36 PM

OK. So this has offically come back around, and is just fun at this point.
QUOTE(David Willis)
There's a distinct difference between buying something and SUPERbuying.
And SUPERbuying is not quite as extreme as buying the HUG outta something.
There's a hierarchy.


#150 Wheelimus

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:39 PM

To be blunt, these guys didn't enjoy Botcon as a walk in because they aren't really Transformers fans. Yes, they obviously fondly remember a cartoon circa 1984. That doesn't make them dedicated fans. I fondly remember a whole lot of cartoons from that era. I don't have 300+ Thundercats or He-Man figures in my toy room, though. We all know that the franchise has grown and changed for decades since, and there's a lot more to it than just G1.

For such a narrow minded "fan" to attend and expect to have a good time would be akin to some sad weird Phantom Menace geek attending Celebration and getting sad when nobody lets them put on a "Why Jar Jar Binks Rules" panel.

I know they're wrong because I've attended Botcon as a walk-in multiple times and had a great time. For like $10 I got to see all my friends, listen to Peter freaking Cullen, see the Hasbro Panel and a bunch more, and even spend a few bucks in the dealer room. The only complaints I had were my own nervous delusions when I was afraid of getting a seat at said Peter freaking Cullen panel. Was sitting comfortably on my butt before it started.

Obviously the walk in system isn't perfect and if I were being selfish, sure, a few more perks would be nice. But if I were being selfish I'd just ask for the whole damn experience for free which seems to be what these guys are doing.

#151 Suspsy

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jul 20 2010, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Jul 20 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suggest, instead, that you donate to Charity because Beast Wars is awesome.

I will not be doing an official tally of donations or anything, but the Allspark is welcome to. I have to catch a plane.


I'll donate another $10, this time to Walky's charity, when the Orlando charity gets to $250.

If people keep throwing up charity's I could end up in trouble...

EDIT: Changed my mind after reading Walky's post. Will be donating $10 to Walky's charity regardless. Hopefully on Tuesday we will see BOTH the Tom Croom explanation AND the David Willis.

So, I think people should donate to BOTH charities! EVERYONE wins.


Pete, I think your heart is in the right place, but I honestly feel that this is all way beneath you. You're an official representative of Botcon, the biggest and best Transformers convention in the world. If you're walking through a barnyard and a couple of pigs fart at you, you don't leap over the fence and starting wrestling in the slop with them in the hopes of teaching them a lesson. No, you wrinkle your nose a bit and then go on your way, secure in the knowledge that your life is grand and those two pigs will eventually end up on someone's dinner plate.

Tom Croom and Joey Snackpants are two thoroughly dislikeable and dishonest nobodies whose influence on Botcon and the TF fandom amounts to zero. If they truly had any integrity, they'd present their argument outright, no strings attached. Heck, they'd also have the balls to register and post it right here. See how well they do on a moderated forum where the emphasis is on FACTS, not how many times 'FAIL' is inserted into a noun.

Let these losers fade back into the oblivion where they came from.

Edited by Suspsy, 20 July 2010 - 01:05 PM.

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#152 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE(Galenraff @ Jul 20 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I don't believe anyone should donate to the charity through the Tom Croom site.


The donations do not go through his site as far as I know. It is just a charity he has worked with and one he supports.

If this raises some money for some kids, then cool. Walky's post raised the stakes. If anyone were to say if someone doesn't donate that they are bad people, that is deplorable. But as of right now, that has not been said and this is no different than auctioning off a date or whatever for charity.

I would hope that no matter HOW much money is raised, that come next Tuesday BOTH Walky and Tom would go ahead and have at it. Each post on their blogs. One with the "Pro" Beast Wars argument, one with the "Con" Beast argument.

#153 Dissever

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jul 20 2010, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would hope that no matter HOW much money is raised, that come next Tuesday BOTH Walky and Tom would go ahead and have at it. Each post on their blogs. One with the "Pro" Beast Wars argument, one with the "Con" Beast argument.


It's already clearly stated in the donation criteria that only one of them will.

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#154 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:00 PM

QUOTE(Suspsy @ Jul 20 2010, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Pete@BotCon @ Jul 20 2010, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Jul 20 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suggest, instead, that you donate to Charity because Beast Wars is awesome.

I will not be doing an official tally of donations or anything, but the Allspark is welcome to. I have to catch a plane.


I'll donate another $10, this time to Walky's charity, when the Orlando charity gets to $250.

If people keep throwing up charity's I could end up in trouble...

EDIT: Changed my mind after reading Walky's post. Will be donating $10 to Walky's charity regardless. Hopefully on Tuesday we will see BOTH the Tom Croom explanation AND the David Willis.

So, I think people should donate to BOTH charities! EVERYONE wins.


Pete, I think your heart is in the right place, but I honestly feel that this is all way beneath you. You're an official representative of Botcon, the biggest and best Transformers convention in the world. If you're walking through a barnyard and a couple of pigs fart at you, you don't leap over the fence and starting wrestling in the slop with them in the hopes of teaching them a lesson. No, you wrinkle your nose a bit and then go on your way, secure in the knowledge that your life is grand and those two pigs will eventually end up on someone dinner plate.

Tom Croom and Joey Snackpants are two thoroughly dislikeable and dishonest nobodies whose influence on Botcon and the TF fandom amounts to zero. If they truly had any integrity, they'd present their argument outright, no strings attached. Heck, they'd also have the balls to register and post it right here. See how well they do on a moderated forum where the emphasis is on FACTS, not how many times 'FAIL' is inserted into a noun.

Let these losers fade back into the oblivion where they came from.


I appreciate your support, but I have always said that this has just been me commenting outside of all that, though yes, it is hard to distinguish.

THAT said, I am donating $10 to each charity and leaving it at that. The BotCon issue is done and over with as far as I am concerned. This, for me, is at this point about seeing two different takes on Beast Wars.

And btw, I won't be eating Ham for awhile. Thanks icon-waspy.gif


#155 Walky

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:01 PM

I'm preeeetty sure you're only going to hear one take on Beast Wars next week, Pete!

#156 Thylacine2000

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:05 PM


A formal debate is not deserved or, given the pissant bad-faith techniques they've used from the start, really appropriate. I also don't think it's appropriate for everybody to be presuming this responsibility onto Walky, when he hasn't volunteered for it and for his sake I hope he doesn't. They've had weeks to give straight answers to straight questions and failed to do so, just like they failed to cover the panels. They have lost the benefit of the doubt of being able to do better, and giving them the spotlight now would be the dictionary definition of someone failing upwards. It looks good for their reputations and bad for their opponent's.

I'm honestly sorry I ever publicized this matter in the first place.
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#157 Wheelimus

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:22 PM

But sometimes it's funny to watch an idiot take a spork into a gun fight.

#158 Pete@BotCon

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Jul 20 2010, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A formal debate is not deserved or, given the pissant bad-faith techniques they've used from the start, really appropriate. I also don't think it's appropriate for everybody to be presuming this responsibility onto Walky, when he hasn't volunteered for it and for his sake I hope he doesn't. They've had weeks to give straight answers to straight questions and failed to do so, just like they failed to cover the panels. They have lost the benefit of the doubt of being able to do better, and giving them the spotlight now would be the dictionary definition of someone failing upwards. It looks good for their reputations and bad for their opponent's.

I'm honestly sorry I ever publicized this matter in the first place.


I agree, no one should expect Walky to get in to a debate. Tom said he was gonna post a blog on why Beast Wars sucked if he raised $250 for a charity. I figured it was worth $10 to me and kids get a little help. Walky said he would post why Beast Wars was awesome no matter what. He asked for people to make a donation if they so chose. I have decided to make a small donation there as well.

If we only get one point of view next week, so be it, but two charities still get some help.

I for one am looking forward to Walky's post. As someone who grew up with G1, I too realized what a superior show Beast Wars was and to this day I still feel it is still the best series ever produced.

#159 Suspsy

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:34 PM

I will say that I am highly amused by all the recent posts going on in Shortpacked. Very revealing indeed!


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#160 Galenraff

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:44 PM

I'm already annoyed that the discussion was even turned into something about Beast Wars. People don't dislike these guys because they hate Beast Wars. Hating Beast Wars just paints a picture about what kind of fans they are, but has no bearing on why their arguments about Botcon have been getting holes poked into them for a couple of weeks. Their Botcon arguments on their own are extremely weak, come from a selfish place, and are given as though they're absolute fact instead of subjective opinion. Beast Wars never had anything to do with it, and they've already successfully managed to manipulate and distract the entire discussion away from the Botcon stuff.

It's practically textbook Histrionic Personality Disorder, really. The emotional appeals in debate rather than facts, the manipulation and claims of persecution when people blew their weak arguments apart, now all this crying for attention and recognition of their self-importance. This is what I mean when I say that encouraging or contributing to this is not good - it won't change them, it doesn't get us anything (*maybe* their oh-so-highly regarded opinion, which I'm not so interested in that I'd pay money to hear), and it certainly isn't even remotely related to Botcon anymore. It's been made all about them, because that's the way they want it.

I really would encourage people not to play into their game anymore. Not that we can't continue to discuss it, but we really should do as best we can to not get personally caught up in it. That's why I'm saying, sure, yes, donate to charity, that's a good thing - but don't even acknowledge it as part of this effort if you do.

EDIT: I should point out this is just MY opinion, and I'm not going to claim that everyone should share it, nor will I be thinking less of anyone who donates for this. Like I said, it's still a donation. But this whole thing just makes me feel dirty. Like, Comic Book Guy dirty, because that's the sort of attitude being appeased here.

Edited by Galenraff, 20 July 2010 - 01:46 PM.

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