Jump to content


Entertainment Earth


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:17 AM)

Also, anyone know how to find the rest of how Kalidor got a kid in trouuuuuubleee?

@  LBD "Nyt... : (25 August 2016 - 12:11 AM)

@ TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 03:20 AM) Why do you hate yourself? -- I don't, really. Whether good or ill, I'd like to know how RG1 goes so, if nothing else, I can actually talk about it from a place of experience.

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:58 PM)

I've seen Minority Report, I don't want to read the same thing except with superheroes and also shit

@  Verity Carlo : (24 August 2016 - 06:57 PM)

You know, what I hate about Civil War II the most is that it's not even trying to break out of the Minority Report shaped hole it's in.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM)

the debate sems to be over.

@  MEDdMI : (24 August 2016 - 02:37 PM)

Wouldn't it be easier to debate this in the comics subforum?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:31 PM)

I don't have anything else to say (although I still think G2 is the true ending, even if G I Joe doesn't mention it, it seems G I Joe/G2 crossover isn't canon for G I Joe comics but only for the Transformers continuity)

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:29 PM)

ok whatever you won.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:27 PM)

that's why I said "if", I dunno I didn't read G2 or G I Joe. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM)

Also,you're still basing this entirely on G2 matching a storyline that was part of G2 itself rather than whether or not G2 matches better with the G1 comic proper.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:24 PM)

The idea kind of falls apart when it requires that the apocalyptic alien invasions had such little impact that everyone easily just ignored forever.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:17 PM)

If some issues of G I Joe comics is a prelude to G2 and if there's nothing in the future G I Joe stories that condradicts San Francisco getting destroyed, yes I would say they share a continuity. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

If you're gonna go "we can assume it did happen even though it's never talked about as long as nothing specifically contradicts it", then surely it's just as easy to assume that the actual G1 TF and Joe crossover happened in the backstory of Classics and RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 01:02 PM)

also I refrained from mentioning Ask Vector Prime but but didn't it say RG1 is a splinter timeline?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:58 PM)

has san francisco ever appeared in G I Joe stories that was chronologically set after G2?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:55 PM)

Intent is not the same as result. And comics end up ignoring things quite often.

@  Telly : (24 August 2016 - 12:54 PM)

maybe they figured a lot of people that read gi joe also read transformers. so they throw a crossover/build up in their to get some excitement for the new comic coming

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:51 PM)

If G2 universe was to be unrelated to G I Joe, why did they do a prelude to it?

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:33 PM)

Classics and RG1 not including Joe issues 138-145 in their backstory does not preclude them from including TF 1-80, or even the Joe and TF miniseries.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:30 PM)

Marvel 616 is also a massive continuity snarl from dozens of writers altering, retconning, or ignoring each others' work for decades, so it's not really a great example for an argument on continuity.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM)

Marvel 616 continuity is a shared universe, devastating events happens in individual series but does mean every event gets mentioned in other comics? @Notvery knightly, yeah that's why I edited that post.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:27 PM)

Your proof for "TF universe = Joe universe" itself is the G2 lead-up, so your reasoning still goes back to G2 matching G2.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

So did GI Joe ever reference the time Bludgeon sent his entire force to rampage across the Earth? Or the time Jhiaxus blew San Francisco into a crater?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:25 PM)

whatever.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:22 PM)

Are you not seeing the recursiveness of "G2 is the true G1 sequel because G2 follows up on a G2 storyline"?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:18 PM)

Yeah it has been established that Marvel Transformers and G I Joe comics takes place in the same universe. Unless 90s G I Joe was a reboot I'm pretty sure the G2 crossing over to a G I Joe comic that takes place in the very same universe as the original Transformers makes G2 the canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:16 PM)

A crossover that the Joe comic apparently ignored.

@  Arazyr : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

They had a crossover before that, 1986. http://tfwiki.net/wi...he_Transformers

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:15 PM)

Did G.I. Joe acknowledge the planet getting wrecked by the Swarm? Because otherwise it's more like "Marvel Transformers is the same universe as Marvel G.I. Joe only when they feel like it".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 12:11 PM)

You're using the G.I. Joe G2 prequel itself as the basis for "Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe", which makes this a rather loopy argument.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 12:07 PM)

As I said before, Marvel Transformers universe is the same universe as the Marvel G I Joe. Marvel G I Joe crossovers with G2, which makes G2 the canon ending. 

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:59 AM)

How is that relevant to whether or not RG1 (or Classics, even) takes place after issues 1 through 80 of Marvel TF proper?

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:51 AM)

it's a prequel to G2, which makes it the same universe as G2.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:48 AM)

That's clearly not in G2 itself, seeing as it's G.I. Joe issue 138.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:45 AM)

@NotVrtyKnightly Im talking about these issues. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Unfoldings!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM)

Now for my part, I consider Marvel G2/Alignment the "true" ending because of Simon Furman's involvement in it, its continuous narrative with Marvel G1, and its sequential publication.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 August 2016 - 11:28 AM)

The nature of multiple spinoffs/branching timelines means that to call any one spinoff the "true" ending is an arbitrary decision.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM)

Joe doesn't take place "in G2". Even their Marvel TF-related history isn't confined entirely to a single publication from the 90s.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM)

Look, oirignal Marvel Transformers takes place in the same universe as G I Joe and G I Joe takes place in the same universe as G2, which makes G2 the true canon ending.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

And it's not like anyone would argue that Rebirth wasn't actually the fourth season of the Sunbow cartoon entirely based on the lack of Ramirez and Old Snake.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM)

No you don't get it, I'm not saying RG1 is "less true" because G I Joe doesn't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM)

Also, it's set decades later and earth was wrecked. Surely you don't need an explanation of why the Joes don't show up.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM)

None of that makes RG1 less "true".

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 10:41 AM)

How is it odd? G I joe and Transformers are canonically in the same continuty. Marvel Transformers continuity is a shared universe. G I Joe is canon and they had a crossover with G2, which makes it canon too, simple as that.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

an odd thing to say, surely.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (24 August 2016 - 09:30 AM)

If you haven't read them, picking one over the other because of the presence of G.I. Joes is just

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM)

Also even though it's not officially published, I believe Alignment is canon since it was referenced in Ask Vector Prime and Allspark Almanac.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 09:22 AM)

I don't have an opinion on neither G2 or RG1 since I didn't read them.

@  Dracula : (24 August 2016 - 07:54 AM)

G2 was kind of miserable but even that is preferable to RG1.

@  tffan01 : (24 August 2016 - 07:14 AM)

I don't think RG1 is the true ending to the Marvel because G. I Joe was in the same continuity as Transformers and they had a crossover with G2, not RG1 (obviously RG1 didn't exist back then). So G2/Alignment is the true ending.


Photo

Bumblebee #4


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
46 replies to this topic

#1 lonegamer8

lonegamer8

    Handsome afthead, ain't he? *tries not to start fangirling*

  • Retired Staff
  • 9461 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:46 AM

Bumblebee #4 out Wednesday, March 10, 2010.

My works! Lemme show you 'em!

Avatar base courtesy of Wombat King <- not at the moment


Allspark's August Reading List 2007 - "Sides"
Allspark's July Fic Challenge 2007 "Red Carpet" winner - "Blue Carpet"
The NEW TFWiki!
Henkei! Henkei! Transformers pack-in comic summaries.
Henkei! Henkei! Transformers monthly manga summaries.

#2 Echowarrior

Echowarrior

    I write stuff...just not as much as I used to.

  • Citizen
  • 7680 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE(lonegamer8 @ Mar 10 2010, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bumblebee #4 out Wednesday, March 10, 2010.


And not a bad end to the series. Can't say it was among IDW's best entries, but it wasn't a bad one.

I wonder how the end will effect the ongoing...


William Rendfeld
That Echowarrior guy...
Author of "Transformers: Armada (Revisited)"- Allspark Fic of the Month for December 2005. Archive here.

#3 Shockprowl04

Shockprowl04
  • Citizen
  • 1554 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:10 PM

QUOTE(Echowarrior @ Mar 10 2010, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(lonegamer8 @ Mar 10 2010, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bumblebee #4 out Wednesday, March 10, 2010.

I wonder how the end will effect the ongoing...


Probably not at all, considering their track record of late with design consistency.

Only for the Royalty, do I have such Loyalty.

#4 Powered Convoy

Powered Convoy

    Skywarp Connoisseur

  • Staff
  • 55912 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:54 PM

I hope Skywarp's okay and comes back.

After all, Thundercracker was completely wrecked. Maybe Skywarp teleported out (unless he couldn't, I only skimmed it, I didn't read the whole thing).

Randy

#5 Echowarrior

Echowarrior

    I write stuff...just not as much as I used to.

  • Citizen
  • 7680 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:59 PM

QUOTE(Powered Convoy @ Mar 10 2010, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope Skywarp's okay and comes back.

After all, Thundercracker was completely wrecked. Maybe Skywarp teleported out (unless he couldn't, I only skimmed it, I didn't read the whole thing).


My understanding is that Skywarp is merely severely damaged by the control board going all explodey - odds are he's in Skywatch custody for the time being. Severely damaged, but otherwise more than capable of coming back in the future.




William Rendfeld
That Echowarrior guy...
Author of "Transformers: Armada (Revisited)"- Allspark Fic of the Month for December 2005. Archive here.

#6 Xaaron

Xaaron
  • Citizen
  • 1478 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:02 PM

In a comic universe where body models are explicitly allowed to change randomly between each artist and comic, the big payoff and lasting consequence of this limited series...is a new body model for Bumblebee.

Huh.

#7 Echowarrior

Echowarrior

    I write stuff...just not as much as I used to.

  • Citizen
  • 7680 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:56 PM

QUOTE(Xaaron @ Mar 10 2010, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In a comic universe where body models are explicitly allowed to change randomly between each artist and comic, the big payoff and lasting consequence of this limited series...is a new body model for Bumblebee.

Huh.


One that appears to be modeled after Movieverse 'Bee, however. Not sure if that's a good thing, but hey, why not?


William Rendfeld
That Echowarrior guy...
Author of "Transformers: Armada (Revisited)"- Allspark Fic of the Month for December 2005. Archive here.

#8 Powered Convoy

Powered Convoy

    Skywarp Connoisseur

  • Staff
  • 55912 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:43 PM

It does resemble the Camaro, but the actual robot bits don't look like it. I really don't like the design of the robot much either.

Randy

#9 Cattleprod

Cattleprod
  • Citizen
  • 1136 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:02 PM

Bumblebee getting a new body is a major plot point. After he got a new body for literally no reason at the start of the series. So bloody stupid.

#10 Zodberg

Zodberg

    The doctor is in.

  • Citizen
  • 14844 posts

Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:31 PM

Pretty good - I think this might have worked better as three issues. The main climax of the story built much on Bumblebee's relationship with the little girl, which was only introduced so late as #3. So the whole thing about Blurr just feels like the comic was jumping through a hoop to show how tight the continuity is with Blur being chased off at the end of one issue in the ongoing and showing up on the run in this series - although off the top of my head I can't think of a better way to structure it, and I'm fairly sure that Bumblebee (Goldbug) will work better reading it in one piece. Eagerly anticipating Prowl.
Woooo!

#11 Walky

Walky

    STRONG GRUDGE

  • Citizen
  • 35291 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:08 AM

I liked the issue a lot. It was no Wreckers, but I thought it was a very good story about Bumblebee, with some satisfying payoffs.

#12 General Tekno

General Tekno

    Lugnut #1

  • Citizen
  • 1915 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 12:34 PM

Agreed - I honestly didn't think it was a bad issue.

I hate the fact though that suddenly, in a miniseries where the designs have already varied drastically from the ongoing (especially in Bumblebee and Blurr's cases), suddenly a new design is a plot point.

I don't mind Chee's STYLE at all, and I do like the style. But I hate the design inconsistencies, ESPECIALLY when we're then expected to accept a new design that's being carried over to the ongoing.

I wish we'd seen Chee's versions of Don's designs rather than G1 animation models.

banner_2015.png

BT Toons - updates Wednesdays and Saturdays.
Blog | Youtube | Twitter | DeviantArt | Tumblr


#13 Moroboshi Ataru

Moroboshi Ataru
  • Citizen
  • 10197 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 06:06 PM

Thought I would mention that Schmidt has copped to the Blurr thing being a genuine mistake:

QUOTE
And to be fair, when talking about the design versus artistic license (and please feel free to continue if you like) the Blur alt mode discrepancy was, point blank, something I missed. Had I caught it, I would have changed it. So, while that does exist in print, it's not an example that accurately depicts our intentions. And I do apologize for missing it. I am only human after all.


This at least makes me feel better than thinking it was something they were cool with. I don't particularly mind the redrawing of Bumblebee in a different style (It's pretty minor), but the Blurr bit seemed going too far for something the company actually wanted. I'll gladly take an admission of mistake over a concerted direction toward open inconsistency.

He also mentioned that HIGHLIGHT to view:
as of issue 6, Don will be drawing Bumblebee with his new body.

Eh, anyway, I still say he shed his Earth form for the hovercar so he could go faster. Where's my No Prize?

Edited by Moroboshi Ataru, 11 March 2010 - 06:06 PM.



#14 Chris McFeely

Chris McFeely

    That was then, this is now.

  • Citizen
  • 7930 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 06:12 PM

Man, I just assumed that he was going to be rebuilt into Goldbug at the end, and then I remembered IDW had made Goldbug a separate character. Which made little sense at the time, and now REALLY stands out as pointless when THAT would have added a neat touch to the end of this story. But I suppose I can't moan THAT much, as it means... well, he's still Bumblebee.

But yeah, I really quite enjoyed this mini.

Edited by Chris McFeely, 11 March 2010 - 06:13 PM.


#15 Moroboshi Ataru

Moroboshi Ataru
  • Citizen
  • 10197 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 06:34 PM

I actually prefer this, because it's less "Just like it was in G1" to have Goldbug as his own 'bot. (Meanwhile, I like Galvatron, Scourge and Cyclonus to consistently be a trio. It...bothers me when one isn't present, like in Worlds Collide, when Dirge replaced Cyclonus. So it's arbitrary with me, apparently, whether I want them to follow G1 or not.)

(And in IDW's defense, they were originally going to go a more original direction with Scourge, i.e. have him not be in the DU crew, and be the Decepticon Kup instead, but Hasbro nixed it.)

Edited by Moroboshi Ataru, 11 March 2010 - 06:35 PM.



#16 Cattleprod

Cattleprod
  • Citizen
  • 1136 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 06:36 PM

Spotlight: Metroplex came out right around the same time as Coda, which featured the prologue to the Bumblebee series. In hindsight, Goldbug was probably introduced as a separate character for no other reason then to justify why Bumblebee wouldn't take that name and look upon being upgraded.

#17 Moroboshi Ataru

Moroboshi Ataru
  • Citizen
  • 10197 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 07:05 PM

That's kind of a cynical way to look at it, though. icon-fire.gif Or it implies more forethought toward continuity than IDW sometimes shows. Anyhow, you ask me, the more characters, the better (And this is a more believable "Two characters" thing than B'Boom and Apache being separate guys. That was just...hm.) Heck, Bumblebee and Goldbug have more different-looking bot modes than Bumblebee and Hubcap (esp. w. the Su design for Bee...though the brand-new design in this comic also makes him a distinct bot), who have long been separate characters.

Having read the issue, I like that Wheeljack and Ratchet tend to view this new upgrade of 'Bee's as a mistake, and a sign of his not staying himself, instead of being agog at how cool he looks.

Edited by Moroboshi Ataru, 11 March 2010 - 07:07 PM.



#18 Walky

Walky

    STRONG GRUDGE

  • Citizen
  • 35291 posts

Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE(Moroboshi Ataru @ Mar 11 2010, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Heck, Bumblebee and Goldbug have more different-looking bot modes


But they have the same head, transformation, and altmode!

#19 Moroboshi Ataru

Moroboshi Ataru
  • Citizen
  • 10197 posts

Posted 12 March 2010 - 12:26 AM

Well, yeah, but G1 Bumblebee is rarely depicted with the toy-accurate head that he shares with Goldbug. Plus, I feel that the different transformation of the rear of the car differentiates them by virtue of Goldbug having the back end of the car magically turn into a rectangle behind his head. Also, Goldbug had a much more rectangular character model, with sharper edges (For instance in the shape of the shoulders and in the torso), Bumblebee a more rounded and basic one. I dunno...I know that Hubcap is a different guy than Bumblebee, who happens to share the same transformation, but I can't help but feel like he's Bumblebee with an orange face and a slightly different chest and head design.

Round vs. boxy:
http://tfwiki.net/wi..._Spike_hide.jpg
http://tfwiki.net/wi...dbugthecure.jpg

(Geez, G1 Bee needs to lay off the ro-nuts....)

Also, in the current comics, Bumblebee tends to have the hood on his chest, door wings, etc. (I consider the Bumblebee pictured in this series up till just before the end of issue 4 to be sort of an aberration, i.e. he didn't really look like that but for artist's interpretation. I mean, even Ratchet in this mini was an interpretation of Su's design, as Don's versions often tend to be, so drawing the Bee G1-style was just a little odd.). Whereas Goldbug is a teched-up version of his original character model with a Cybertronian alt mode.

Then again, I always preferred Goldbug. Apparently I was the type of kid Hasbro was looking for. Hey, Prime's dead! Aw...wow, Rodimus! Awesome!

Edited by Moroboshi Ataru, 12 March 2010 - 12:36 AM.



#20 Monocle

Monocle

    ASM Contributing Editor

  • Citizen
  • 3623 posts

Posted 12 March 2010 - 08:58 AM

I enjoyed this issue, it was a satisfacotry, and bittersweet ending to the mini series.

Bumblebee better watch out though, you never know when Ratchet may decide to rebuild him back into his old body! icon-arcee.gif

Edited by Monocle, 12 March 2010 - 08:58 AM.

Contributing Editor
Altered States Magazine
http://www.alteredstatesmag.com