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Well, G1 just got trashed... a review of the DVD.


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#41 Necromancer Bob

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 09:05 AM

QUOTE(Shoot-and-Scoot @ Jun 20 2009, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
This is especially damaging to the Decepticon leader Megatron, who would be a truly great villain if only his strategic and tactical planning skills weren't somewhere between those of Wile E. Coyote and Lt. Col. George Custer.


This is so true.


And a really great line. I'll have to remember that comparison.
y!

#42 Detective Fork

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 09:48 AM

G1 gets trashed a lot but I still enjoy it. The old cartoons can't really be held up and compared to more mature shows that you enjoy as an adult. It's an '80s kid show that featured a lot of fun characters based on toys, imaginative but not deep ideas and frequent weirdness. Enjoying it is often a combination of an appreciation for that type of cartoon and nostalgia. I still think it's better and more watchable than a lot of other cartoons we watched as kids. One thing I like better about Transformers is that it doesn't come across as dumbed down for kids. The characters seem like adults and act like adults without a lot of cutesy stuff or exaggerated stupidity.

Edited by Detective Fork, 20 June 2009 - 09:50 AM.


#43 Detective Fork

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE(MrBlud @ Jun 20 2009, 04:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
His strategy was keeping Prime occupied and on Earth while sending energy through the space bridge for Shockwave to use in crushing the main Autobot resistance. A plan which worked flawlessly as the Decepticons had completely taken over the planet by the time 2005 rolled around when it took the very personifiction of evil to shake their hold on the planet.

Course the only "Megatron" to get props for capturing Cybertron stole someone else's work to do it then lost it to a bunch of hippie animals.

Go figure.


I really enjoy this perspective. Hadn't thought of it that way. :-)

#44 Mark Pellegrini

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 11:04 AM

The G1 cartoon was not a good cartoon. It wasn't even MEANT to be a good cartoon from the very beginning. If those Donald Glut interviews are any indication, there was no story editing in the first couple seasons and first drafts were sent through as final scripts with scarcely anything more than a proof-read for type-os. In-house correspondance featured quotes along the lines of, "Focus on action above plot at all costs!"

The bare minimum of effort was put into the first few seasons of the cartoon and it really, really showed. Basically, if any good stories came out of seasons 1 and 2, it was completely on accident.

The Movie/Season 3 seemed to be the turning point, where there was actual story-editing, something resembling episode-to-episode continuity, a richer back story and some much more challenging stories...but the animation had self-destructed by that point to being nigh-unwatchable.


I own all the episodes of the series several times over and I've watched them all a billion times. Like the G.I. Joe cartoon, the G1 series is a guilty pleasure and I do enjoy it's stronger points (as mentioned, the voice acting was uniformly excellent and the animation, at least by Toei, had moments of grandeur).

But I can never say it was a genuinely good cartoon. Because it wasn't made to be a good cartoon.

#45 Tomoko Kuroki

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE(Detective Fork @ Jun 20 2009, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(MrBlud @ Jun 20 2009, 04:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
His strategy was keeping Prime occupied and on Earth while sending energy through the space bridge for Shockwave to use in crushing the main Autobot resistance. A plan which worked flawlessly as the Decepticons had completely taken over the planet by the time 2005 rolled around when it took the very personifiction of evil to shake their hold on the planet.

Course the only "Megatron" to get props for capturing Cybertron stole someone else's work to do it then lost it to a bunch of hippie animals.

Go figure.


I really enjoy this perspective. Hadn't thought of it that way. :-)

Most people generally ignore that part though, as it makes all the G1 Megatron jokes lose some impact when he actually succeeded in a rather important way, even if he was getting his ass handed to him on Earth five days a week.

#46 Esser-Z

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 11:10 AM

I have no fondness for G1, myself. I wasn't alive to watch it in the 80s, so I'd already seen much better cartoons by the time I saw any of it.

Edited by Esser-Z, 20 June 2009 - 11:11 AM.


#47 Autobus Prime

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 11:57 AM

Hmph. Another one who just doesn't get it. Here is one of his few good points:

QUOTE(Vicious @ Jun 20 2009, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
"The Transformers" Complete First Season: How Did a Show This Bad Launch a Franchise?
By Ed Liu
06-18-2009, 12:08 AM
the fact that the shows' low points far outnumber their high ones isn't as relevant as the fact that they provide a fertile enough environment for imagination to take root.



Does this man realize how rare and wonderful this attribute has been, at times, in the world of childrens' entertainment? So often, we have gotten preachy, PC nonsense that leaves no room for dreams. In fact, this single remark answers the question his title asks...completely.

(Edit: I greatly fear that the current hip trend for Social Responsibility ™, Only $59.95 at Walmart, Buy it and Feel Virtuous All Week, will bring the poor young'uns a new round of preachy PC tripe. But that's another story...)

And don't miss this part:
QUOTE
Then again, the first Transformers live-action movie was an intermittently entertaining, over-stuffed, under-developed, cacophonous mess whose only sense of imagination seems to be in creative ways of blowing stuff up, so perhaps this first series didn't inspire as much imagination as one might hope.



Again, the point is missed, and furthermore the assessment is wrong. Transformers 2007 was indeed a mess, but imagination was one of its greatest redeeming features, and that goes a looong way.

Those who can, create. Those who can't, criticize. What would this man want? Has he ever watched the dismally PC childrens' "entertainment" that the parents' groups love so well? Has he ever stopped to consider that his ideal show might bore the kids to tears?

And how can somebody who likes Animated not enjoy practically the same show, in the style of another era, unless he is blinded by some sort of reverse-nostalgia? Animated is a LOT like G1, folks.

I believe that this fellow is blinded by a form of self-conscious, adolescent maturity that all of us have at some point, but which needs to be grown out of, in its turn.

Edited by Ottobusu Purimu, 20 June 2009 - 12:07 PM.





#48 Bocc Kob

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Jun 20 2009, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is there any cartoon from the eighties that was perfectly produced with no animation/sound errors and everything made sense to us in the real world?

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find one.




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#49 Sprocket

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 12:06 PM

I can't argue with it. I never watched G1 as a kid: I'm only in this because of Beast Wars. I did however, watch all those other shows (Voltron, Thundercats, Silverhawks, GI Joe, Go-Bots) and really, most of the shows we watched as kids were terrible (I cringed through Toonami's re-airing of Voltron and Thundercats back in 1997, especially Voltron), and Transformers is no exception.

Edited by Sprocket, 20 June 2009 - 12:11 PM.

Being part of any fandom is fundamentally embarassing.

#50 Jeysie

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 12:28 PM

QUOTE(Ottobusu Purimu @ Jun 20 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those who can, create. Those who can't, criticize. What would this man want?

A good show?

On the one hand, he does miss the point that compared to other 80s shows, Transformers was innovative in a lot of ways. And many of the overall concepts of Transformers are still pretty unique and creative compared to other scifi shows, even.

On the other hand, there's no denying that the show had shoddy animation and writing, and ages poorly for the most part. It's commendable for what it sparked off, but the show itself is pretty bad, once you take off the nostalgia glasses and actually look at it.

And on top of that, while Season 2 was fun anyway because it ramped up the camp factor and had a lot of character spotlights, and Season 3 was enjoyable because it actually made an attempt at good writing, Season 1 was just formulaic and boring.

QUOTE(Ottobusu Purimu @ Jun 20 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And how can somebody who likes Animated not enjoy practically the same show, in the style of another era, unless he is blinded by some sort of reverse-nostalgia? Animated is a LOT like G1, folks.

Because, as I like to put it, Animated is the good points of G1 without most of the bad points. Essentially, it's G1 done with writing that's actually good.

#51 Fenix Twilight

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE(Firebert @ Jun 20 2009, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Vicious @ Jun 20 2009, 03:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Same reviewer loved Animated:

http://news.toonzone...ll-throttle-fun

Oh, God... There's gonna be some raging on TFW2005.

He even praised it in the G1 review.
QUOTE
In any event, newcomers seeking a way into the world of the Transformers would be better off seeking out Transformers Animated, which, except for missing Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime, is a better TV show in almost every way. If you didn't already pre-order this set months ago, you're probably better off leaving it on the shelf.


And this is technically off topic, but I love this comment in the Animated review.
QUOTE
There is a fine distinction between entertainment suitable for children and entertainment that is childish. The former can appeal to young and old audiences alike, with the younger getting exposed to brave new worlds of imagination and the elder being able to enjoy a brief regression to that younger mindset. The latter may appeal to children, but does little for older viewers except insult the intelligence. Good entertainment for children makes you feel like a kid again; childish entertainment requires you to regress your mental development to that stage. Two other recent 80's revivals--Star Wars and Indiana Jones--have fallen sadly into the "childish" category, but Transformers Animated is clearly in the former. This DVD is frustrating only because it is so good at creating a yearning for more.

So perfectly worded. icon-silverbolt.gif

But yeah. whenever I go back and watch G1 episodes or just read error lists, I'm always dumbfounded by how many mistakes there are, and I always wonder how a movie was made.

#52 Bass X0

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 01:17 PM

because kids just didn't see the mistakes or errors back then and if they did they didn't really bother too much about them.
It all began in '84. Kept on rollin' in '85. The pieces were in place in '86, and it came to an end in '87. But now it comes, and here we go. Transformers is here again. Nothing's gonna stop it 'cause it's 1988!

#53 Chip

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jun 20 2009, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And on top of that, while Season 2 was fun anyway because it ramped up the camp factor and had a lot of character spotlights, and Season 3 was enjoyable because it actually made an attempt at good writing, Season 1 was just formulaic and boring.


In season 1, are there any settings on Earth that aren't just the same desert over and over? I know they don't leave the desert much.

#54 Blueshift

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 03:57 PM

We're talking about a cartoon which had a plot where the Autobots dress up in lab coats in an attempt to fool the Decepticons into thinking they are rocket scientists. It isn't high drama in the slightest.

A lot of good stuff came out of it later on, but the first two series were pretty much disposable goof.

#55 Axaday

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 04:30 PM

Can anyone name a DVD boxset that isn't a hard sell to people who aren't fans of the show?

#56 The REAL Chopperface

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:29 PM

QUOTE(Axaday @ Jun 20 2009, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can anyone name a DVD boxset that isn't a hard sell to people who aren't fans of the show?


The prostitutes & ice cream variety hour?

#57 Bocc Kob

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:32 PM

QUOTE(Axaday @ Jun 20 2009, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can anyone name a DVD boxset that isn't a hard sell to people who aren't fans of the show?


Firefly, after Serenity came out? icon-fire.gif

#58 Autobus Prime

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE(Blueshift @ Jun 20 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We're talking about a cartoon which had a plot where the Autobots dress up in lab coats in an attempt to fool the Decepticons into thinking they are rocket scientists. It isn't high drama in the slightest.


BS:

Does it need to be high drama?

I can't be the only person here who enjoys, say, Voltron for a certain set of reasons, and The Hunt for Red October for a different set of reasons. Not everything has to follow the same rules. Good heavens, Shakespeare runs the whole way from high drama to low, low comedy, often in the same play, and every bit of it is fun. Seriously, somebody else here must know what I'm trying to say. I can't put it any plainer.

The thing that annoys me about this review is that the reviewer is going out of his way to demolish this series for failing to be the best thing ever. Isn't this just the flipside of the error committed by the people who claim it is the best thing ever? Aren't both of them equally wrong-headed?

Isn't he making the very same error as the people who condemn Bay's movie for failing to be Au Revoir, Mes Enfants? And we beat those people black-and-blue with their own torn-off misspellings!

The G1 show isn't perfect, but who says it needs to be? Watch MTMTE and you know what the Transformers are about. That's more plot than you can extract from the majority of Energon. It's fun to dwell on the low points, but the show has its good points, as well, and some are quite good.

It's a mixed bag, but an open-minded viewer will find it enjoyable.







#59 Aphel Aura

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE(Ottobusu Purimu @ Jun 20 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing that annoys me about this review is that the reviewer is going out of his way to demolish this series for failing to be the best thing ever. Isn't this just the flipside of the error committed by the people who claim it is the best thing ever? Aren't both of them equally wrong-headed?


Having read and re-read his review, I never got the sense that he is "demolishing" the series. Going out of his way to demolish the series would be: "hug, Transformers is just plain *scrubbed*. You fanboys/girls are huging idiots and useless jivepiles for liking this jive. hug y'all."

But he never even comes close to that, does he?

He's just calling a spade a spade... just tellin' it like it is. Pointing out the flaws of something does not equate "demolishing" something, or blaming it for failing to be the best thing ever.

Look. I recently just started re-watching Silverhawks, one of my most favorite cartoons from the 80's. And guess what? Upon watching the first view episodes, I said to myself, "holy jive, they sure re-used a lot of animation. The plots sure are stupid and ludicrous. The voice-acting isn't top notch, etc etc etc etc etc." But guess what? It still warmed my heart to watch the series again, and revisit some familiar characters. Just because I was objective in my assessment this time around, doesn't mean that I went out to demolish the series. I just saw it for what it is: a silly and fun cartoon.

Edited by Aphel Aura, 20 June 2009 - 06:17 PM.

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#60 Axaday

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 06:19 PM

QUOTE(Aphel Aura @ Jun 20 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Look. I recently just started re-watching Silverhawks, one of my most favorite cartoons from the 80's. And guess what? Upon watching the first view episodes, I said to myself, "holy jive, they sure re-used a lot of animation. The plots sure are stupid and ludicrous. The voice-acting isn't top notch, etc etc etc etc etc." But guess what? It still warmed my heart to watch the series again, and revisit some familiar characters. Just because I was objective in my assessment this time around, doesn't mean that I went out to demolish the series. I just saw it for what it is: a silly and fun cartoon.


I watched the whole volume 1 DVD set, but then I sold it back immediately. I don't understand why a show made by the same people as Thundercats was so bad. Maybe they just didn't have time to do two good shows and they compromised with one good one and one bad?



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