If there was some doubt to the availability of the second batch of figures, I'd agree. But to substitute exclusives with the regular main line release... I don't know.

As I ranted a few pages back...BBTS tried making a big deal that they were the only way to get these toys. They convinced a lot of us to make preorders with them, and keep those preorders, even when product started showing up elsewhere.

So while I COULD have gotten Starscream at retail, and I COULD have gotten the rest from eBay or a Canadian before everything sold out, I'm now SOL.

That is on BBTS. Considering their big selling point is supposed to be their excellent Cusomer Service, the least they could do is offer to take a hit on Takara prices and fill our preorders with the molds we reserved. And explain WHY TRU Canada and various Asia markets got these, but they somehow can't.

As for these automatic RiD conversions...what are they, K-Mart? A toy is a toy is a toy?

Hasbro said we'll sell these through you.

They said ok and took preorders.

Then Hasbro said "Changed our minds you can't have them."

I really can't see how any of that is their fault.


-ZacWilliam, I can see being frustrated, but Hasbro makes all the calls here, not BBTS...

Oh, I totally agree, I just think this way seems a little more diplomatic than "welp, the toys were cancelled and we dropped your preorder, peace out!"



Which would be great, if there were enough Takara releases to go around, or they could have planned for it ahead of time.

They weren't released. Zombie Cliffjumper is getting released in Takara's RID line, so maybe he'll show up in Hasbro's too.



That would be presuming there are any TakaraTomy ones left, which there aren't, and that BBTS is willing to take a hit on a figure they charge $35 to $40 and sell it for $15 to $20 - which I know if I were them I wouldn't. That'd be losing way too much money.

There is a chance that TakaraTomy's FE stuff may restock though, as I've seen some places indicate they may be receiving more.

Randy

Good news and bad news. Some new FE Prime figures were put out today, bad news is that some scalper cleared out all of the Cliffjumpers and Bulkheads. I did grab two Voyager Primes however, so if anyone is interested in them feel free to PM me, otherwise I'll return them.

What would have been nice on BBTS's part, and I realize it's not probably feasible given the way things work (supply, timing, etc.), would have been a "we'll hold back a stock of TakaraTomy figure preorders to cover those that that had their Hasbro preorders canceled and they can pay half the difference between the Hasbro and TakaraTomy version" kind of deal.

If you preordered Hasbro Cliffjumper at $19.99 and the TakaraTomy CJ preorder is $37.99 (difference of $18), those that got their Hasbro preorders canceled could purchase the TakaraTomy version for $28.99. I wouldn't expect them to sell the $37.99 toy at $19.99, but half the difference seems fair.

Like I said, probably not doable, but it would have been nice.

MIKE
engledogg

I kind of assume BBTS can place some more orders with Takara now, which may take time to fufill, but we know exists (I could be wrong). I'm also not saying they should match the Hasbro price for the Takara product, but some discount seems more in line with their Customer Service reputation than "Here, have stuff we know you don't want."

And again, I only say this because of the hype they tried to build about them being the only way to get these toys. BBTS did that, not Hasbro. Hell, they still have an entire banner ad dedicated to selling First Edition Prime toys at the top of this page.

Umpteenth Bumblebee/White Ratchet/G1 Wheeljack/Black Soundwave are wave one of the new Movie Trilogy line, or they were as of BotCon.

They were also "Movie Trilogy Line" during the slide show at NYCC.

PM sent!

I can't see why anyone would fault BBTS for hyping something they thought was true. It's like getting mad at somebody for inviting you to their wedding after they got stood up at the altar.

Good news for the voyagers, at least.

We know the FE Voyager Prime mold will come back. There were pictures at a Japanese toy show of a darker colored FE Prime with a silver stripe on the shoulder, ala - G1. It was in the pics with the new mold minicon targetmasters.

Bulkhead is uncertain, but BBTS has a preorder up for next month. It's $50, but it's the Takara version and those are always a bit more.

I'd forgotten about that Prime so I'll hafta preorder him, but that Voyager Bulkhead will probably be the new mold with the same kind of gimmicks the RID Voyagers seem to have.

I can't imagine we won't see all the First Edition toys re-released over the next several years of Prime's lifespan eventually, either as general retail or store exclusives.

If they can re-deco the original movie Ratchet Voyager five times over four years, I think they can squeeze Optimus and Bulkhead in somewhere.

The molds, probably, but I fully expect that they'd have different deco.

Indeed. While I'm annoyed about passing up stuff because I had pre-orders at BBTS and also agree they have mishandled this on their part to a degree, they didn't turn these toys down. They had the rug pulled out from under them via Hasbro.

I don't know. Rumble and Frenzy. Just throwing it out there. I hope they (R&F and the FE toys) see a release as two packs or something, but I just don't know.

Edit: If the Prime line is super popular like Armada, I could see it, but back then they made a lot fewer molds, and released toys slower in general. I somehow doubt toys are going to be clamoring for Prime product.

There's still a shot we might see Rumble and Frenzy again at some point. It wasn't THAT long ago.

Retro characters with no substantial modern media presence in a dead size class?

Not really comparable, I'd think. Mostly for the last reason.

Can't really blame BBTS for your own mistake. If I have a BBTS preorder and I see a toy at retail I automatically pick it up because it's going to be cheaper. The mistake here was BBTS wasn't able to get pre-orders to Hasbro early enough. Hasbro sent all of Wave 1.5 and the Voyagers to Canada, and if they had any over stock there, maybe they offered it to BBTS and TFSource and such who declined paying shipping from Canada to the US. But thats just a theory.



Blackout, Wing Blade Prime, the Animated Deluxe repaints. Yes the line was at the end, not the beginning, and not as popular as it could be due to the movies, but we're never seeing those toys at US retail, ever. Again, if Prime gets into an Armada situation, and Hasbro scrambles for molds to fill the shelves, I see it. But they're producing a lot of toys for Prime. I want it to happen, but I just don't see it.

BBTS is stuck in the middle between irate customers and a supplier who's pulled the product. Although it was shady to start with when BBTS first named a list of major retailers that were not carrying the line and spinning that to drive up their own pre-sales, it's not as though they had any expectation of never receiving most of that stock. The way a lot of people are wanting to run with this right now makes it sound like they think BBTS set out to screw people out of toys they wanted, and that couldn't be more ridiculous. Plus, they're automatically giving existing pre-order holders first shot at the new ones, and from the sound of it, continuing to honor the original pricing where it's lower than the current prices. It might not be what you want, but they're doing everything they're able to in order to help smooth this over. They could just as easily drop all the standing pre-orders and say "not our fault!", because it's not their fault, and leave everyone to have to get in line all over again. And I don't see how anyone can reasonably expect them to try to fill these orders with Japanese product. Even if they had any to give right now, they'd take a loss trying to fulfill them at the US prices. And if they offered pre-order slots but with a price increase to account for the difference, people would start flipping their jive about that, then. They're in an unwinnable situation here. Their customer service reputation is going to be damaged, people are already talking about taking business elsewhere, and it's all for something BBTS didn't even DO. Do tell me, what purpose will denying BBTS business serve in response to a situation they had zero control over?

And as an addendum, what makes anyone think BBTS even knows there's a difference between the products right now? These aren't dedicated Transformers fans who are going and reading posts and watching videos about the toys. They have their order sheets, and whenever the stuff comes in stock someone may handle them for product photography, but that's about it. So yeah, in a case like the Voyager substitution, they know Megatron is not Bulkhead, but why should they think there's a material difference between two toys called Voyager Optimus, or Deluxe Cliffjumper? To think they know your preferences between the toy lines or that a difference even exists beyond the branding is more than a little self-absorbed.

-----



No, as you pointed out one line above, you had other opportunities to obtain these figures. You chose not to take advantage of them. That is on you. BBTS wasn't holding your money. There was nothing to stop you from pursuing those toys elsewhere and dropping your preorders when you had all you wanted. Unless you'd like to tell me how BBTS actively prevented you from buying toys elsewhere until everything was gone?

w00t. found a guy in canadia who managed to nab me a cliffjumper and one of the last bulkheads

*hedbangz*

Does anyone even know, why the First Edition toys were yanked? I'm just curious if it was a production problem, or some stupid bean counter told them, they weren't getting enough orders for it to be worth the cost of creating the molds in the first place. Too, it's so rare for an entire sub-line to be completely canceled, that I'm surprised Hasbro isn't being more open about the whole thing.

Yep just as I feared would happen

Saying I told you so hurts to. cos we are all out of the TFs we wanted and now theres no way to get thim at close to retail there scalper bait for the rest of there lives

The Bulkhead is a restock of the released Japanese one w/ the darker green.

"Japan Color Exclusive - Bulkhead - Takara First Edition"

Unfortunately...upon checking again, the preorder is sold out. I'm guessing a bunch of people who got screwed on the US version jumped on the new preorders. I'm glad I got in before it was too late.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, the last wave of DOTM deluxes (Soundwave, Wheeljack) never made it to US shores?

What I want to take from all this is that Hasbro is trying to tighten the Transformers brand with RiD, and part of the execution on that is leaving collectors hanging in the breeze.

I didn't see them at retail TO pass them up, largely because they (being the Voyagers) didn't hit retail here in the states. Therefore your assessment is off.


No, that's conjecture, not a theory.

No offense but I'm pretty sure you don't understand how pre-orders and stock delivery work. BBTS has had preorders up since, I don't know, October? Earlier, maybe? And no, Hasbro didn't send stock to Canadian TRU stores and then offer the leftovers to US retailers.

I believe I preordered Prime and Bulkhead the day the preorders began. My preorder was listed as November 8th. I just canceled it last night.

Well, we're getting FE Starscream with what seems to be FE BB in an Entertainment Pack in the main line. With Silas and a MECH Trooper.

An Arcee with Cliffjumper would seem to fit the concept too, no? Maybe with seated Sadie or Jack?

And Terrorcon Cliffjumper vs. Vehicon would definitely fit as well.

I mean, I'm not going to get my hopes up, but this really does seem like a way to get these toys to retail without worrying about putting two Deluxe Cliffjumpers out on shelves. As for Bulkhead... I have to imagine they're going to reuse that mold somehow. It's just too good not to reuse.

No one knows yet other than speculation. My suspicion is that it's a complication of the First Edition toys coming later than expected and the RID stuff coming earlier than expected. Hasbro would rather focus on a mass-market product which is produced in higher quantities. If the First Edition stuff got held up for *any* reason, which seems likely, then they would probably prefer to sell you their mass-market Cliffjumper than their First Edition Cliffjumper. Seems weird to us not to try to sell existing product, but there are a lot of business factors which play into the decisions like these.



Thanks. Either way, BBTS didn't fail to put up preorders in time to meet Hasbro's stock requirements. I'm sure they put those preorders up as soon as Hasbro let them. There's evidence that they sometimes put up preorders *before* Hasbro lets them or confirms the case assortments.

I'll repeat, the only thing in Canadian TRUs that have had US packaging were the Entertainment Packs. Everyone else, Deluxe and Voyager, have had the usual Canadian packaging.

So unless you're keen on suggesting that they shipped everything to Canada, then paid someone to open the thousands of leftovers and repackage them into US packaging, that theory just doesn't work out.

We haven't seen them yet. I'm inclined to say that means they'll show up the same way the last waves of ROTF, 2010 and PCC did: through some odd outlet at a later date.

Of course, I also don't think all the First Edition toys in the world ever are gone and TRU said and BBTS said and Hasbro said and blaaaaaaagh, so maybe I'm too optimistic.

Correct. All of this is based on two online retailers (BBTS and TFSource) reporting that Hasbro canceled their preorders for reasons which have not been made clear, and the fact that US Toys'R'Us stores have not restocked Wave 1 Deluxes and have not stocked Voyagers or further Deluxe waves. However, we know that those same stores haven't really stocked much of *anything* recently as it's been their inventory season (a notoriously bare time for restocks). Now they are starting to stock RID toys, so people are making an assumption that no more FE toys are coming.

While I share the pessimism I'm also secretly hoping that FE toys magically start appearing in a month or two and everyone can get what they want.

No, and we probably never will.

Did the Prime cartoon debut on time? That could have been a factor too. There's more going on then just the usual Hasbro-Production-Distribution-Retailer influences, there's the whole HUB launch, and the standardized Prime universe.

What I'm trying to get at is that FE and RiD represent two different directions for the line as a whole. FE is pretty standard Transformers as we've known them since classics: Deluxes, Voyagers, Entertainment Pack, no gimmicks.

RiD renames the classes, they all have energon weapons, Voyagers have an electronic gimmick, and there's a heavy focus on Cyberverse.

There's a lot in play that likely made this situation.

Edit: Quantumhawk said it better.

Entertainment Earth:


I think the reason people are kind of steamed at BBTS is just the whole thing where they seemingly intentionally misled customers to make them panic and think the First Edition figures weren't coming out in brick-and-mortar stores at all, by selectively leaving TRU out of their list of "You won't be able to find them HERE, so you'd better order now!" names. That was a little skeezy, and if they hadn't done it, I think you'd see a lot less angry people and a lot more who understand that BBTS had the rug yanked out from under them by Hasbro, too.

I had the opportunity to get ONE figure at local retail. BBTS was telling me they'd supply the whole wave. I listened to BBTS. I now have nothing. Why should anyone who has items on preorder assume it won't be filled, and start pestering Canadians to find things for them?

I don't order things from BBTS because of their competitive pricing. I order things from BBTS because it means I actually get the product I order.

Fair enough, Swift. But I also think BBTS had a good faith belief that Hasbro would deliver adequate inventory to them so they could fill all the pre-orders that the shady methods would generate. So again, aiming the ire at BBTS feels misplaced. Especially as much as it's being portrayed as BBTS actively doing something to the people who preordered.



And BBTS would have filled your order if Hasbro had supplied the merchandise as expected. But BBTS did not do anything to deprive you of your chances to get the figures you wanted otherwise.

Pretty much. Usually if BBTS is unsure they're getting an item, they say so. In this case, they basically tried their hardest to get people to panic and preorder from them, with absolutely no hint that there could be problems. And appearently, they've known this since sometime last week, but sat on the news rather than tell their customers, and let them try and pursue other options.

It's backfired terribly on them, and that's mostly Hasbro's fault, but they don't walk off unscathed, as far as I'm concerned. And it's not like kvetching about Hasbro screwing up is going to accomplish anything. BBTS could, in theory, at least make good to their customers on this somehow. Other than pretending to be K-Mart and automatically switching everyone's orders to stuff they don't want.

Prime's doomed, isn't it.

BBTS has no way of knowing their customers don't want the new pre-orders. At least until the mass cancellations get noticed. But, instead of "somehow", why not suggest a specific action you'd like BBTS to take? Replace your preorders with Takara equivalents? Okay, if you're willing to pay out the difference in price, that might be fine. Except they don't have any slots available to offer you or anyone else. So, what else would you suggest them to do except give whoever is interested in it first crack at RID?

"in theory"

This really is Internet-Awesome, all things considered:

Leaks from Toyfair UK to complain about.

Toyfair NY soon.

And a whole line of canceled Transformers to go Batstuff nuts over.

Good time, good times.

Close the pre-orders, send an email saying that they are about to cancel the existing orders in X amount of days. Suggest that people either cancel the order themselves or take up the offer to switch to the RiD figures if they want. On the last day, send another email saying it's the last day to switch. Then just flat out cancel the remaining straggling pre-orders and send out a third email saying that all of the outstanding, defunct pre-orders were canceled.

More work for the exact same results, but far fewer assumptions made that could piss off customers who are already irked about the situation.

Don't you roll your eyes at me!

I was right about Animated. THE END IS NIGH.

BBTS knows it's customer base; collectors. They may not know for sure what every individual customer wants, but they can't be ignorant that a heck of a lot of them want those molds, not the Mass Retail stuff they'll see clogging shelves for the next six months. I haven't heard a single person say they're going with the new Preorders, have you?

As for specific action, I already did suggest; Order more from Takara, offer a reasonable discount to their customers who had preorders. And the only reason I suggest that is because they created the hype that led to people sticking with their preorders, even when Wave 1 showed up at TRU. And even when the rest showed up in Canada. If they hadn't made such a huge deal about them being THE way to get this product, many of us would've bought when other opportunities arose.

I'll reiterate; This is hugely on Hasbro, but BBTS has not handled this well at all. After working to get their "Buy from us, no one else will ever have it!" message out to the fandom, at least as much effort should be going into informing us what's going on (promptly!), and making some effort to mitigate the lost opportunites to their customers. Instead, we just get K-Mart style e-mails telling us "Oh, you're getting this stuff instead. Hope you don't mind."

Did we see any entertainment packs in US packaging? Like, At all? Link me to a picture, that isn't an NYCC or SDCC display. Also, November to early December isn't enough for preorders except for overstock from stores, and the reason I asked what the general lead time from Production line to Store shelf is. The figures are packaged in China, at least a week on a boat and some time in customs. BBTS would have been ordering as the figures were coming off the line, and they were ramping up the RiD line production, and with the quickness RiD has come out they were probably already producing RiD in November. The production numbers are probably determined by the major retailer's order numbers, plus some extra. If TRU Canada were the only ones to order 1.5, the entertainment packs and voyagers, then that is where they would all be shipped. If any were shipped to america at all, they would have ended up on BBTS, TFSource and HTS. But they didn't. They're in canada, and none of those stores want to pay the shipping cost to get them here.

And yeah it's all conjecture with nothing backing it up except wild ideas, and yet, what other reason for none of the US based online shops not getting their orders filled is there? Hasbro didn't produce enough, or they're in Canada.

I love you Fwiffo, don't ever change.

Randy