So it was a reference I missed. Fine.

"Mess with Cliffjumper, and you get the horns" sounded odd to me. Even now knowing the reference it's just, kinda droll.

It really is basically a customized "Mess with me and I'll cut you."


M "Doesn't Need To Be Fancy, The Point (Ha Ha) Is Made" Sipher

He was right - they messed with him, and he left behind one of his horns.

I found it kinda odd that Arcee and the rest just placed his horn on the ground on a plateau, and... left. I dunno, if my best friend dies in battle, and only his helmet remains, I'd put it on a memorial wall/corner somewhere in my huge base, not discard it. It's like keeping a photo of your loved ones.

Okay, downloaded and marathonned torrents.

I'm really liking this.

And, as much as I hate to say this; Tramp's got a point about olfactory sensors. Hell, what we call "scent" is just airborn chemical/particle traces --we just don't think about it because our noses do the work of analyzing them on their own (the same way that our eyes are basically spectrum-specific radiation sensors). Think of how many chemicals Cybertronians need to be aware of (electricity has a scent [ions smell like ozone, as anyone who's been out in a lightning storm should know], water has a scent, plus whatever types of exotic coolant, lubricants, or fuel additives they use on Cybertron. Hell, energon probably has a scent, as would plasma cannonfire and fusion beams).

So why do they need a triangular lump on their face to detect smells?

Very simple. It provides the structure and surface area for the olfactory sensors to be located and protected, having openings (nostrils) to take in the scent molecules for the sensors to detect.

Why do they need any of the human analogue features they usually have?

Because they had them in G1, obviously.

Simple really. Dual optics provide depth perception (3-dimensiaonal view) as well as wider field of vision that a single optical sensor lacks. Dual auditory sensors on the sides of the head provide stereo hearing. A mouth provides a means to ingest energon and other needed "nutrients" as well as a practical means of verbal communication. And, as mentioned before, a nose provides olfactory sensing capabilities.


That too.

Funny. All I thought he was missing was a wheelchair. And I say that in the most sincere CLAP CLAP THAT WAS AWESOME way possible. I don't see any problem with a human character of highly above average intelligence being able to hang with the Autobots minds. In fact, it's a great way to humanize everything that happens.

I would like to see somebody add red pigtails to Sparkplug Witwicky.

You should totally make it happen next Botcon.

Click to view attachment

At last, my nightmares have a face.

Rewatched the first half and noticed something:

Cliffjumper was apparently in upstate New York (it was the NYPD who put The Boot on him). Arcee was already in Jasper (right near the Autobots' base). Ratchet was somewhere dark and cold, though I can't tell if the dark was because of the snowstorm or because it was after sunset (born out by his comment about timezones). It was sunset where Optimus was, and Bumblebee and Bulkhead were both in full daylight. Aside from Ratchet, nobody else had snow around them, so we can safely guess Northern Hemisphere (it's summer in Jasper), making it North America. I can't tell whether this is standard "Planet America" geography or if the treaty they're under with the government precludes them from leaving the US.

As Cliffjumper noted, they were patrolling for Energon (and probably Decepticons, whether they expected to find them or not), which suggests they each had assigned areas. I'll assume that Megatron's return raised their alert level and they're not actively patrolling anymore --else someone would probably need to take ovr responsibility for New York.

Curious that, of all of them, Arcee happened to be the closest to their base (meaning that no one would have been able to Earthbridge home until she got back, since the Earthbridge doesn't appear to have remote access). Was she actually on patrol, or just out gallivanting while she was supposed to be watching the base?

I have to wonder, if she'd been inside when Cliff's call came in, if they might have reached him soon enough to make a difference. . .

No I guarantee it's the size fo the eyes. Had his eyes been smaller and slimmer the nose guard would go after the eyes and you would only be complaining that there is no robo-penis door on his crotch.

How else would he pee on humans?

Cute.

Seriously though, it isn't his optics that are the issue. If you draw a horizontal line across his face, bisecting his head, the optics should also be bisected since they should be set midway between the top of the head and bottom of the chin. Then, if you run a second horizontal line midway between the optics and the chin, that is where the tip of the nose would normally rest. Bumblebee's optic are not nearly large enough to meet that line, nor does the tip of his nose-guard. Therefore, the size of his optics has nothing to do with the nose guard not hiding the lack of a nose. It's all about proportions. Bumblebee's nose guard ends along the midway line that bisects his optics. The size of the optics is not a factor. I draw larger eyes than that on some of my manga styled characters.

I must admit, after the stellar Animated series, the premier of Prime was a little underwhelming.

The show's great - one of the better series so far - but I just couldn't find myself having too much fun while watching it, something that was never an issue with [i]Animated[i].

About the episode itself... Dwayne Johnson was awesome as Clffjumper. Shame they killed him off so quickly. I'm hoping for a non-dark energon evil zombie revival soon. Out of all the Autobots, Arcee is my favorite, with Ratchet following closely. To be perfectly honest, I found Cullen's Optimus to be utterly bland in not just episode, but throughout the miniseries... I hope he gets better in the series proper.

That's pointless because none of the Prime robots follow realistic proportions tho (as in, the usual human body proportional basis) so you don't need to match no kind of line, only vaguely make it look like it works,.
And smaller eyes, did work on making the nose more pronounced.

Now he just looks like he's glaring.

Bumblebee sees what you did there, and he does not approve.

No, it doesn't the nose guard is too short. As for the proportions of the various characters' faces all being different? Not true. The shapes of the heads are all different, but how and where the facial features are placed on the faces are all proportionate and follow standard proportions and layout. The eyes are still mid-way down the face, where the nose "should" be is still half-way further down, and the mouth one third of the way down from there.

Nah sorry, the nose isn't too short.

Did you even compare each character? Bumblebee, Optimus, Starscream, Megatron, Ratchet etc. etc. all have different face lenghts, noseplates and more. There is no "proportional standard", there is no "rule", look at 'em they are all different there is no way you can decide what is "proportional" when they don't even have the same EYES (and as far as i'm concerned at least all human beings have the same kind of eye), I mean, jive, Bumblebee doesn't even HAVE a mouth how can you draw a mouth line on a dude with no mouth yet has cheekbones without having cheeks?

Floro, I'm an illustrator by trade, yes, there is a proportional standard when drawing faces. There is a standard rule, there are indeed standard proportions on how facial features are placed on the face. IT's not a matter of the overall lengths of the individual faces, but rather where on the face the facial features are placed in relation to each other and the head. That is what determines proportion. It doesn't matter if different heads have different shapes or lengths, where the various features sit in relation to the face is what's important, not the length and shape of the head. The eyes on the face sit mid-way down along the "equator" of the head. The tip of the nose sits half-way down from that, and the mouth sits one third of the way further down from that. That is basic proportion. As for Bumblebee not having a mouth, his helmet has a mouth guard that stops where the lip line typically rests. The tip of the nose would typically sit just a little above that.

How this applies at all to alien robots brought to life by a magic space cube, I could never know.

I thought Bumblebee's head was supposed to be sort of bug-like. It reminds me a lot of BW Waspinator's head (Waspinator has no nose either)

And that applies to a cartoon bug-like robot because?

There is no mouth, there is no mouthguard because there is no mouth, see Bulkhead? He got a mouth guard that moves when he speaks, Ratchet also got a chin guard but Bumblebee here has no mouth, it's a mouthless design just like Soundwave or Shockwave.

Just... give up your porportional stuff doesn't apply here. Your proportional sense is based on human knowledge, this is a cartoon alien robot, even if they were trying to be realistic making it different from a human being would be the logical choice because it gives the viewers more a "this thing isn't from our planet feel", but right now none of your argument means anything. Proportions doesn't apply here this isn't a anatomy book this is a cartoon where cartoon aliens have different features from the cartoon humans and to a large extent, all different from each other as as well.

In real life, a place like Jasper would be perfect for a military base.

Most likely, Jasper started out as a cow town (commercial hub used by local ranchers) and got something of a boost by the highway being put in; a lot of places benefited from the Interstate-building spree of the 1950s and mini-sprees that came in later decades. But it's still just a cow town and so there's not much for the economy to develop off of.

What it does have, however, are a lot of nearby mountains that are conveniently located near some modern roads. This, coupled with the town's existing infrastructure, would have been able to support a missile base of the type that the Autobots are using. The locals would have known that Uncle Sam was doing something in their back yard, but aside from a few conspiracy folks they'd have only cared about the money being brought in by the few soldiers who were allowed to wander into town every now and then.

And then when the base closed down, there went the money. The town took it in the shorts, and so is now just scraping by on whatever traffic the highway and the remaining ranches bring in. The town thus seems deserted to outsiders because it built itself up too quickly thanks to government money and now no longer has the population base to support such large size.

I live in Texas, and so I've seen more than a few podunk towns that don't have much going for them but are trying to get by anyway. For example, Gatesville, the county seat of the county I'm in, continues to exist today in large part because it's at the intersection of several main roads and so gets the commercial boost from people dropping in to its stores and entertainment facilities; it's too far away from the bulk of the Fort Hood populace to really get any money, and both ranching & hunting are on the downswing. They've got all of one factory, and that's it. Then you've got towns like Briggs and Pidcoke, wherein only the locals can tell you how it is that those places continue to even survive.

Tramp:


I'm suspicious of your actual conviction to your words....

So basically, it's Radiator Springs. . .

Pretty much.

A major problem in the US is towns that grew up around a single industry or money-making endeavor, only for that industry / endeavor to go away; the towns end up economically strangulating until either a replacement industry emerges (such as in Youngstown, Ohio, a former steel mill town that is trying to rebuild as a hub for start-ups) or the towns simply cease to exist (Fort Hood was formed, in part, when the government imminent domain'd three failed townships).

Add to it the fact that the region in question tends to be somewhat thinly populated to begin with, and you've got a very plausible explanation for why a town so seemingly large would also be so seemingly empty.

**

Plus, there's also the fact that the edge of town where the burger shop is could simply be succumbing to blight. The housing area where Jack lives looks fairly well-kept, as is the area around the school they go to. But the area around the burger joint looks like it's slowly becoming run-down, as if the other businesses and residents are moving to the nicer parts of town.

For example, Killeen (TX) saw much of its downtown area suffer from blight when the state re-ran US Highway 190 several miles south of the downtown area; the old highway (now known as Business 190 or Highway 195) was too small to handle the traffic load but the storefronts built themselves up too close for the place to be widened. When the new highway was built, it pulled traffic - and later businesses - away from the downtown area, and the residential areas off of the downtown area also suffered due to people relocating.

The end result? If you travel along US Highway 190, Killeen looks very much a thriving, vibrant economic town that is trying to disentangle itself from being wholly dependent upon Ft. Hood. But if you travel along Business 190, be prepared to see entire stripmalls that are effectively deserted. There's one restaurant there that IIRC has been abandoned for 5+ years.

Floro, yes, it does apply, The Transformers' faces are based upon human design, and human proportion, This includes Bumblebee's. TFP Bumblebee's face is based upon his movie incarnation, which is far from bug-like (except when his face shield is down). More accurately, his face is more child-like than bug-like. And, yes, he does have a chin and mouth guard. Bulkhead has a mouth and heavy jaw.

Based doesn't mean it has to follow it perfectly, it's much more bug like than the movie one which is a ... metal baby pug or something.
In the same way just because Transformers faces are based on humans doesn't mean they have to follow it by the book, just compare the actual humans of the universe.

There is no mouth guard, because there is no mouth. Until we get a pic of Prime Bumblebee flashback with a mouth or something it's a mouthless design and thus there is no mouth and thus no mouth guard. Bulkhead has nothing to do with the example so I don't even know why you're bringing him up.

Bumblebee's helmet is nearly identical to many BMX helmets which have a face guard which covers the mouth. Thus, it is a mouthguard regardless of whether there is a mouth under there or not, and, you really can't say one way or another if he does or does not have a mouth. You only assume he doesn't. Even movie Bumblebee had a mouth under his face guard. You can tell by the way his jaw moves the guard as he vocalizes. And you still miss my point about the proportions. My point is that it is not the size of the optics which makes the nose guard too small, but rather the proportions of the guard in relation to the face over all. Arcee's optics are even larger than Bumblebee's yet her nose guard is much more proportionate to the rest of her face, and suggests an actual nose could be hidden under it. Cliffjumper too had a perfectly proportioned nose guard in relation to his face. Bulkhead, had a very short wide head and face, and a proportionately short nose guard. Bumbelbee's nose guard is much shorter than is proportionate for his face, and not because his optics are large. The size of his optics has nothing to do with it.

Wait, what was this argument all about again..?

Other than the fact taht there is no mouth drawn and he doesn't move it in any way? Even movie Bumblebee moved his mouth a little during expressioning, this one got nothing, nothing at all just like the eradicons.

As you saw in the pic that I provided, smaller eyes made the nose guard look just fine and Arcee's eyes are in no way bigger than Bumblebee. She got narrower eyes but the same lenght of nose guard as Bulkhead and Bumblebee. And if you gonna use the ASSUME no mouth argument as far as you know Bulkhead' face isn't shorter either, he got a jaw guard but you can only assume that there is not more of a longer fage after the area it covers.

Furthermore, Megatron and Starscream are also good examples. Nobody is complaining about their noses yet their nose guards are much more short than any autobot, why is that? Squint and wide eyes, instead of gigantass round optics.

Truth be told, I didn't see any nose complaints from anybody other than Optimus or people that want bigass ugly noses like in G1 toys too, so I guess you're alone with this.

Floro, if his mouth is covered, you wouldn't see it drawn anyway. Thus, your argument that it wasn't drawn has no merit. It is hidden by the guard. Bulkhead doesn't have a mouth guard. He has a huge hinged jaw with a very big, very wide mouth. His mouth is not covered. That is his lower jaw. And the total length of his face, from crown to chin is very short, His head is wider than it is long. The only one who's mouth appears to be covered is Bumblebee, just like his movie incarnation. That does not mean he has no mouth though, it's just covered by a guard which is part of his helmet. As for Arcee, yes, her eyes are larger than Bumblebee's, both in width and length. The shape of her eyes though, are more almondine rather than round which makes them longer than they are wide. And yes, her nose guard is longer than Bumblebee's and does descend lower on her face. Bumblebee's nose guard is the shortest in proportion to his face than every other Autobot except Optimus Prime.

It's not, I'm looking at pics from the last episode in HD. And if the mouth lenght thing you claim is true then he REALLY has no mouth because his chin cover is really really low and thin, his mouth would have to be super low and thin like this "-". Arcee's nose is also the same lenght and your Bulkhead argument is flawed considering his jaw isn't even part of his face, he actualy got a mouth under it, the jaw is a separate piece akin to football helmet face protections.

Bleh whatever, you'll just go NO ITS NOT and I'll go YES IT IS until the end so yeah.

Still think I'm 100¨right tho

No, his mouth guard is not low and thin. It goes all the way up to where his mouth should be and is about as wide as a mouth should be. In fact, it goes well past where his mouth should be and stops where the tip of his nose should be if he had one. As for Bulkhead's jaw. It is hinged to his face itself, not a part of his helmet. and all he has above that is his upper lip. He has no lower lip. That hinged piece is his jaw.

Here is a picture of Bumblebee's face:


Look at the size of his nose guard, and the size and placement of the mouth guard. The nose guard barely hits the center line of his head. Run a line through the horizontal axis (half-way between the top of the cranium to the bottom of the chin), and the tip of the nose guard barely meets it, and certainly does not go below it, like it should. Forget about going past the bottom of the optics. and the mouth guard goes well past where his mouth should be to where the tip of his nose would normally rest. It completely covers his mouth.

By contrast, here is Arcee's face:
Note, the nose guard not only extends below her optics, but also past the horizontal axis of her head, the tip of it meeting precisely where the tip of her nose should sit proportionately. It is nowhere near as short as Bumblebee's.


What makes Bumblebee's appear longer is the fact that the brow of his helmet sits higher above his brow ridge than Arcee's. Arcee's helmet rides lower over all on her face than Bumblebee's, resting right on her brows. Bumblebee's sits higher with a definite gap between the edge of the helmet and the top of his brow ridge —about one finger's width— as opposed to the actual eyebrows (which are movable).

Now, if you look at Bulkhead here:


His nose guard is also short, but everything on his face is crowded into a very small space between his eyes and his mouth with most of his face being taken up by his huge chin. Thus, while the nose guard could be a little longer, it is relatively proportionate to the rest of his face.

Now, here is Cliffjumper:


His nose guard is the longest of them all, extending all the way down to where the tip of his nose should be. It is significantly longer than Bumblebee's.

So basically you have no argument other than your personal assumptions AND saying that other assumptions are just assumptions when they have just as much evidence as you do. You say there is a mouth when there is none just because it serves your argument, you say there is no chin on Bulkhead when you can't see if it is or not and yet when somebody assumes there IS a chin because the design shows his jaw as a different piece you go NUH HUH ASSUMING. You don't know any of that until it's shown in fiction or mentioned by Jose Lopez himself.

It's a fact that smaller eyes would work on Bumblebee, I provided a pic that proved it, longer noseguard would work as well but isn't needed like Starscream and Megatron show and would also take away from the movie homage. There is no proportional standard on these robots, Bulkhead's nose isn't "proportionate" because of a rule it's just following his Animated design in the same way that Bee is just trying to follow his Movie head. And by the way, Bumblebee's nose isn't just that guard, you can see a light that goes past it which helps giving him more material on the area and even goes past his eyes and hits the " idea face middle" that you claim to be there so I don't even know why you're against his design.

And I'm done with you, reply if you wish but I'm warning in advance that it'll be pointless, you are now on my ignore list after all.

Floro, your picture proves nothing. I showed the actual images of the characters and pointed out the exact measurments and where the parts fall on the faces themselves based upon actual proportion showing actual comparisons. Your argument is baseless. Smaller optics won't work on Bumblebbee. His nose guard is simply too small and it has nothing to do with his optics.

What the hell is going on in here? I literally have no idea.

This is going to mark my exasperation as I clean out friggin PAGES of...I don't even know what.

EDIT: Cleaned up. Nobody post any more guro pics.

very good start for a first episode

Okay, now I'm going to say TF: Prime is "Cars, minus all the things that made Cars suck and given an awesomeness transfusion from The Incredibles"

Did I just inadvertently help create a new meme?

Hopefully I'm not saying anything offensive, but the one thing that sucks about this episode (and it's just one thing) is that they killed off Cliffjumper like too soon. He was cool, he was a total badass taking on the cons by himself, then Starscream just wasted him in the first 5 minutes of the episode. That was not cool.

I just caught the last eight or so minutes of this. And that's all it took for me to be sick to death of Miko.

Eh, I watched the full ep for the first time here. I still protest Cliffjumper's demise, dammit, but I'll keep watching.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"