The 2nd special airs at 7:00pm tonight in the UK.

Can't wait for this!

Dark Destroyer

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*Is excited!*

I'd say 3rd but looking forward to it just the same.

I've been avoiding spoilers (not easy to do over here), so I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised and entertained.

Somehow I've managed it without meaning to lol

Same here. That said, I avoid the papers like the plague.

Yeh looking forward to this (I'll catch it on iplayer tomorrow), looking forward to the next special even more though.

........DAMN!

Woah... Well, he was right... the details changed, but the story did remain the same.

Y'know, one thing I just realised - since this was Tennant's penultimate appearance, children nationwide will get the wonderful experience of seeing the Doctor die on Christmas.

I'd love a synopsis as I'm overseas and If you had the time/

Essentially HIGHLIGHT to view:
Ten arrives on the first human martian colony, which times says MUST be destroyed with all hands lost. He knows the rules but is distracted by his respect for the crew and the fact that an alien water life form is affecting the crew.

At the end, he finally gives in but goes too far. He decides he alone survived to be the ultimate Time Lord, history bowing to his whim. He saves the three surviving crew in the TARDIS and the incredible events mixed with Ten's assumed godhood freaks them out. The companion character is now left to die of old age but she spites Ten by committing sucide when his back is turned. This snaps him out of it and he hurries away in the TARDIS as the Cloister Bell sounds...

That's odd.

<waits and refuses to highlight spoiler synopsis>

Sadly, I have 90% of the story already from the previews I think. I hope there will still be some shocks beyond scare factor for me heh.

<twitch>
I really just want to know if we at least name check the Ice Warriors...

Yeah, they did.

So, who reckons sales of carrots are going to plummet?

On the plus side, lip balm sales are on the up!

Generic sci-fi pap for the first half or so, then it looks like it'll end on a downer, before the 'twist' occurs with some good dramatic lead-in to the regeneration story.

Any word on the US airing...?

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Well the Doctor was certainly a Douche there when he goes al Godlike after saving them. On the one ahnd I can understand WHY he did. He's the Doctor, saving lives is what he does. "The one the makes everything better" He wanted to give the survivors a happy ending. But then that Speach. God... I'm glad he snapped out of it.

End of Time is going to be interesting. I hope that really is 'The Master' and not 'A Bad dream' with how he turns to a skeleton makes me curious, but if he is a dream it'd sseem like he'd still look like he did as Harold Saxon.

December 19 on BBC America.

Damn. If "The End of Time" continues this quality of storytelling, I take back every negative comment I've said about Russel T. Davies.

The whole story with the Flood was standard Who fare (With Ice Warriors name drop, natch), but the climax...holy crap.


The crazy thing is, me and my fellow Whovian fans have been speculating as to why the Doctor hasn't done something like this sooner. He's been enforcing a code of a dead civilization, after all. But when he finally does cross that line...I have to say it was brilliantly acted all around. Tennant turns into a madman, and the others' reactions to his demeanor change is right on the ball.

Hm. For most of the episode, I was hoping for him to actually be the one to HIGHLIGHT to view:
trigger the nuke while everybody was scrambling to evacuate, but saying HIGHLIGHT to view:
"hug the laws of time, I'm saving these folks 'cause I wanna" works just as well. As we've seen in Runaway Bride and Family Of Blood, he's not exactly all puppies and rainbows.

I kinda hope that some of the New bunghole Doctor Who Does Whatever The Hell He Feels Like sticks around when Matt Smith comes in, but it looks like HIGHLIGHT to view:
most of the hubris he hasn't already lost 'cause of the suicide is going to be slapped out of him in the next special. Pity. I like a slightly non-human morality to the Doctor.

Whilst I agree that the aliens weren't quite so great beyond nightmare fodder, I think it's partly intentional because the true villain of the story is the Doctor. I actually felt sorry for 'Andy' when the Doctor electrocuted him, solely because he didn't want to risk the prophecy coming true. It's quite telling in how the Dalek was used earlier in the story- as an image of future hope and peace, of humanity's greater destiny amongst the stars. Meanwhile, it's actually the Doctor who's the sinister alien pressence, forcing humanity to obey his superior power.

A whole month yet? Ugh...
Thanks for the info, though!

Despite the planets history within the series only the ice warriors were mentioned with no reference to the Sycorax who had some business there in The Christmas Invasion or the Osirens pyramids.

True, but at the same time we're dealing with something coming out of the Martian Ice. In that regard, whatever it was would fall under the domain of the Ice Warriors.


Truthfully though, I'm a touch disappointed. When we first saw the creatures in the Preview, I had speculated we might be seeing the revival of the Ice Warriors, given the look of the mouths. Still, not bad for what we got. It seems RTD's is stealing from Steven Moffat's playbook - taking ordinary, mundane substances and turning it into Nightmare Fuel.

Shades of the Valeyard in Tennant's performance towards the end. I wonder, could the climax of "Alixion" from the planned original season 27 come to pass?

Also reminds me of the Master's view of altering history: "I'm a Time Lord, I have that right!"

My brother and I (life long whovians) jaws hit the floor in a moment of worry for us:
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10 says "I am THE Time Lord, and the laws Will obey me![", the Master's key phrase. which got us thinking, what if the Master is back to STOP the Doctor, which would be epic and awesome! That twist is a long time coming, as specified in his memory voice overs, see End of the World and Fires of Pompeii for ref.

The story itself was solid, and I imagine RTD's only real contribution was having the other author put that ending together. I called the Adelai's fate the moment they landed. I need to go back and freeze frame things to have a look at those Wiki-like articles that we flash to, see what additional info I can gleam. Overall, I'd rate it as a good episode, enemy scary, pace good, and ending exciting.

My favorite moment was:
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As he leaves the base, the lighting in the helmet is done to make him look like a skull ala Grim Reaper as he walks away. DoP deserves a medal for that!

So...no River Song before we switch Doctors, I guess?

I wasn't really thrilled with this one. HIGHLIGHT to view:
The Doctor spent most of it not really doing anything except hotwiring a robot (and electrocuting its operator - was that supposed to be funny, or horrifying?), and then there's just this abrupt crazy personality twist that seemed like it should have been introduced over several episodes, and you'd THINK having her commit suicide and have her body found on Earth would significantly change history, and...eh.

As one episode in a season, this would have been fine, but with only four in a year, I was really hoping for something better. And more.

On the bright side, Sarah Jane Adventures continues to be fun, and the first episode of K9 wasn't nearly as bad as expected.

After how awful season 1 of Torchwood was, I really have not given enough of a chance to the spin offs. I have a few (key) episodes of TW s2, and SJA eps, but I should give them another go sometime. But K9A? After how punniful the previews were, I'm not sure I am ready for that.

That whole plot line kinda flew out the airlock when Tennant announced he was leaving. I remember hearing Moffat had plans to bring in River Song as the Companion. Who knows what's going to happen now - if anything.




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The Doctor wasn't doing anything because he didn't believe he could do anything - what with the event having to happen. And one could argue his about face is the result of the past four years dealing with being the Last of the Time Lords. You also have to remember the key to all these Specials is the Doctor's loneliness. Not only is he the last Time Lord, but all his friends have gone their separate ways or forgotten about him. He doesn't want a repeat of what happened to Donna, so he's refusing companions...but deep down he still wants to belong.




HIGHLIGHT to view:
Like the Doctor said: "Details might change but the stories will remain the same." It was established she was a "Person of Historical Significance" to the point even a Dalek wouldn't kill her. She was destined to die on that day. By doing what she did, she ensured the Time line would only change minutely.

Besides, once the two survivors began talking about the strange man with a ship that was bigger on the inside then on the outside, British Officials would chalk it up to the Doctor - as he is a known entity to them.

The same tagline was used in one of the BigFinish audios, The Kingmaker, but to an end which I really disliked there. It's one of the few Audio adventures I refuse to accept as Canonical, which is sad since otherwise it's a decent story, but the ending killed it. Same with the Audio Master.

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The Time Lord Triumphant wasn't really out of nowhere. It's subtle, but it's there. As Guard Convoy said, it's about loneliness. We also know the Fury of the Time Lord is nothing new to him: See Attack of the Cybermen, Runaway Bride, Human Nature, and others. When the Doc gets pissed, he can get to that point where he brushes with his own arrogance. We also see a follow thru from Voyage of the Damned, he chooses who lives and who dies, making him into a monster/God.

Additional Spoiler for 11's first season, read at your own risk below:
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River Song (Forget her real name) has been seen filming on set of the 5th Series with Matt Smith. It's still entirely possible that Song and 10 already had a slew of adventures between the scenes this season. He would have known he had to take her with him, even if it's against his current mood. Then, he knew he had to say goodbye to her too leading into Forest of the Dead, putting him right back at square one.

I think there is a possibility of it happening still, this story kinda sets the stage for it. "The details are diffrent, but the story remains the same" She meets 11, rather then 10; and ideally the liabrary arc would have some diffrences. But its still possible with that phrase in mind.

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That's what I liked about it. I while I do enjoy seeing that side of him; I'm also hoping, and have been hoping really, that 11 is much calmer. It seems like that's what they are setting up. It does seem that the events around a regeneration sometimes influence the Doctor's personality in his next life; which really seem apparent with the new series. Eight regenerated during or after the Time war, those feelings lead to the brooding Ninth. His time with Rose lead to him remembering the good in life, so that when he Regenerates, he's a much happier person; though there seems to be a lot of anger left over. It seems that if this keeps up and End of time happens because of his anger/arrogance then likely 11's personality will be a reflection of those experiences.

I ain't using spoiler blocks, sorry. Too many already and the thread is marked with a warning.

I'm a bit mixed on the change. In general, I enjoyed it. It's very true to the roots of the character as the Doctor was from the very start of the show and as has been further hinted at as the show goes on. The whole idea that the Doctor could be a terrifying force if he chose to be is what keeps the character interesting. At the same time, I'm not a big fan of all the nigh omnipotent forces and references RTD has peppered his tenure with. Yes, godhood is probably the closest thing you could compare the lone Doctor too in many ways. But RTD tends to stress it to a degree that makes the character seem that bit limited. Basically, the entire revived show has offered this single view of how the character can be viewed and really no other. It's also a bit bi-polar. One moment we're shown how fun the Doctor's life can be, but then we come to a screeching halt to be reminded how terrible and depressing it is too. Sometimes I think the current show could use on screen prompts to tell me if I'm supposed to be cheering or horrified.

Heh, they mentioned the Philippines 5 minutes in. Citizens are actually called Filipinos

It started out pretty typical of sci-fri horror then it got all twisty in the last few minutes. She could have just done it inside the Tardis so there's no evidence. Or have the it set to vaporize or something. It's a little weird to have space travel future be inspired by suicide but I get the 'minor details' thing.

I dont want to watch the christmas special this year....I dont want to see my Doctor die.

The two other survivors kinda kill the "No Evidence" thing. And really, if you just lost 75% of your command and Humanity's first colony on Mars...people off themselves for less (Even if that isn't why she committed suicide).

Well, she committed suicide to 'preserve the future' but if she wanted to make sure things were left unaltered, she would have made sure her body wouldn't be found (considered to have died on Mars). They could tack on a scene with the two survivors very angry with the Doctor but deciding to stick to the story (that it was only the two of them who escaped) because it was what Adelaide wished for.

I wonder if the story would have been better/ more tragic if all the crewmembers died and the Doctor was only able to save Adelaide, just to have her kill herself in the end.

I agree on this; when the Doctor got angry and the whole "The laws of time will obey me!" thing happened, my thoughts weren't "Woah" or "Erk" but "Woo!"

We are meant to feel ambivalent about it. He's finally taking charge and doing what many have thought he should do, but that also is taking him to a very dark place (See Valeyard or Master).

My reaction was OooOooo. In that "oh this is going to be a good fight!" kinda way.

Don't get me wrong. I like that the Doctor is being shown as hard to peg down, makes him more realistic. It's just that Davies tenture is a little bi-polar on the character. A bit too much "Like the Doctor? Think he's a champion? HOW DARE YOU, BE HORRIFIED!!....Why are you looking aghast? He just risked his life to save you!". It makes it a bit hard to comfortably invest in the character/series.

anyone watch the children in need preview for the christmas episode?

i did. i enjoyed it but it needed less Ood and more maniacal grinning.

I just realized I hadn't posted on this yet. I watched Waters of Mars earlier in the week and I thought it was amzingly good...my favourite of the specials so far. I love how darker the Doctor is getting, as someone said above he's becoming more and more like the Master (especially when he declared himself Time Lord Victorious! to Captain Brook). Lindsay Duncan was brilliant. The visuals of the colony base were awesome. The Doctor coming back to help them after hearing them be picked off one by one was great stuff. I loved the only knocked three times line! No fourth knock for you! Maggie Cain shares my birthday...December 28 so I got a kick out of that. The preview for End of Time as well was sweet...Christmas is going to be awesome this year!

Dark Destroyer

"I locked it like a car...it's funny..."

Gah, I want! Yet I don't either!

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And the Elder Ood's comments make me think the Time Lords are coming back. "He is Returning. They are Returning - but too late"

Sounds to me like the Master's got something vicious planned that only the Time Lords can stop...if they can get back in time. I suspect the Time Lock on the Time War is about to be broken (Technically, it's already been breached by Dalek Cann).

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Concerning Time lock breach: I remember the scene in army of ghosts, The Doctor demonstraing to Yvonne what she was doign by breakign the hole in the glass, and then it shatters. I could see that same idea being applied to Caan's breach of the Time lock, allowing others to reappear since Davros' Death was undone.

I loved it!

Knowing the fate of Bowie Base One from the beginning didn't diminish how the people died one bit. I really liked the Doctor playing the observer in this one for the most part ("I should really be going) since he felt that he couldn't do anything to change history. I also enjoyed the references to the Ice Warriors as well as how sometimes he's able to cheat fate in small ways. It was interesting and quite believable to watch Brooke refuse to sit back and allow her people to die even though the Doctor assured her that was the inevitable outcome. When one plan failed, she moved to Plan B. Then C. It was only when she realized that she couldn't alter her fate that the Doctor arrived to save the day. The scene where he's walking away from the base while hearing the colonists dying screams was very moving and for a moment I actually thought he'd just leave them to their fate.

But that's not the Doctor. He struts right back into the base like he owns the place and starts issuing orders which start to turn the tide in their favor.
From that point, the Doctor was large and in charge! ("He will knock three times and I think I know what that means. And I don't hear anyone knocking! *BOOM BOOM BOOM* Three knocks that's all you get! Water and electricity! Baaaaad mix!") Even though the Doctor knew it was wrong, he still wanted to do the right and just thing. Maybe he is becoming a bit like the Master or the Valeyard but it was refreshing to see him willing to throw away the codes of an extinct race to help those he could. I had almost hoped that this would be a new direction for him.

The 10th Doctor is probably my favorite because he's so much like the 5th. They're my two favorite Doctors.

-SS ("The laws of Time will obey me!")

Watch "Children of Earth." It's incredible. And you don't need to have seen the rest of Torchwood to like it. (I know, because I only saw the first 5 episodes of s1, and nothing else.)

I liked Waters of Mars an awful lot, but I'd have liked to see him do slightly less staring and slightly more saving. If he was going to get involved, he should have done it when there were still a few more people to save. I get that it was their screams that pushed him over, but at that point, you might as well keep going too. I dunno, felt a little off.

I also disliked the idea of having the two others survivors and the body of the captain being discoverable. I also get the "details" thing, but I too would've liked to see her be the lone survivor only to have the show end the same way.

In pretty much all other ways, this was such an incredible episode, really cool, interesting, sci-fi fun, and extremely character-driven drama that was so well done!

Bring on the End of Time, and hope it's as good as these these past 3 specials!