I mean are Bryan Singer's and Brett Ratner's X-Men flicks really a metaphor on sexual orientions rather then the old racism metaphor in the original comics? i mean what is Singer trying to pull?

Yes. Short answer, in the 60s, mutants were an allegory for blacks and hippies. Marginalized parts of society. Long answer: in the 70s, 80s and 90s they became an allegory for any "alternative lifestyle" you could think of, and a lot of the movie dialogue makes them specifically analogous to gays and immigrants, specifically with Iceman's mother's line, "have you ever tried NOT being a mutant?". Bryan Singer's openly gay, so it's not surprising that he'd try to include at least some gay-friendly content in the film.

He also cast one of the gayest gays that ever gayed to be Superman.

okay.. sorry I think I'm able to go on now that I got that out of the way.


its more 'any-outsider' Allusion, then gay/racial metaphor

If someone marries Multiple Man, will that make them a polygamist and get them shunned from Mutant society?

fang did you just out Cobra Commander's boyfriend


he's switched to Mac Bwahahaha

Haven't they established that some of the Madrox multiples have gone on to live their own lives?

so..professor x is polygamy, I guess?

Actually, it is a pretty good metaphor for being outcast for being what you are, I'd never really looked at it that way. Now to think about it, the line by Iceman's mom was pretty obvious, though.

Well the X-Men movies are about different sexual orientions then regular heterosexuality as the first one deals with hiding and fighting for rights, the second one is about coming out and the third is about curing people who are different. If you think about for a minute on the whole allegory.

Bryan Singer is gay obviously and i think he probably did that allegory in the movies on purpose. Ian Mckellen is gay and i think he bought into Singer's concept of the movies and Nightcrawler himself Alan Cumming is bisexual as you can tell he's been dating and doing many women and men as he use to be married to a woman and now to a man, with a name like his he sounds like a porn star.

Now Mystique is bisexual, Northstar is Gay and Morph can be seen as a transgendered person with an ID crisis.

GG, just so you get the words straight for your next epic homophobic -masked as (way late) nerd rage...

Metaphor is used as a direct substitution ... like the gungans in Starwars. and is solely determined by the author.

Allegory. as has been given by another sparker, is a set of many possible interpretive end points for the linked ideas... sort of like a fork.

Allusion on the other hand is open ended, and is allegory where either or both ends of the link are left to the reader to put into place.

also

sorry I just have to much fun with these threads

You kind of lost me on the third part.

its also about WW2, american slavery, Jewishness, anti-atheism, gender equality, political diversity, age discrimination, the 60's, Vietnam, etc etc etc.

and its also about Evolution, and the fear of change.

its also about Stan running out of cool new ways of giving hero's powers.

What?

Good point, i could also see the Jewish allegory in the movies about Christians shunning the Jews and trying to fight for friendship since Singer is Jewish.

I also believe Professor X is somewhat a cross between a white Martin Luther King and Harvey Milk.

Oh fangy, you tried so hard to legitimize a GG thread and it almost worked... Almost.

Is greengoblin a MySpace metaphor?

All signs point to yes.


With a 25% dose of Youtube Commenting.

Is it possible for Wolverine to might be a metaphor for small, clawed mammals who fighting against big toothed tigers throughout history? Hugh Jackman comes from austrailia so the allegory is also ironic.

I think Wolverine is an allegory for marketing.

Do mutants have fair employment among humans in the Marvel universe? you know those "Discrimination is against the law" posters in the break rooms? i bet in that universe they have mutants and normality on their on the discrimination part.

You already started that thread.

Nah, Wolverine is an allegory for furries.

Isn't Brandon Routh MARRIED?

Oh yes, thanks i kind of forgot.

Could there possibly a cure for mutancy in the X-Men universe? i've always wondered is mutation a disease or evolution.

See the beginning of Joss Whedons run on Astonishing X-men which you can catch the motion comic versions on Youtube now.

Yes he is, to Courtney Ford.

Ever heard of a beard?

How about just mediocre (with #2 being the superb exception) adaptations of a comic book series? I see what you're going for, but these themes aren't new to the movies, so while it's certainly possible, I doubt Singer was trying to paste it full of "gay"

Of course I have, but I can't exactly believe a claim that a married man is gay without anything to back it up.

Fang's crush isn't enough for you man? lol

Obvious Fang is Obvious

Your mom is a sexual orientation metaphor.

They have radar now man, it's all high tech and done with computers!

She's called Wanda.

The cure for Wanda? Selene.

Hmm... There could be some truth to the "X-Men as allegory for homosexuality" theory (minus the obvious disdain for the concept inherent in the wording of the first post). It has been bandied around that Marvel's mutants are stand-ins for everybody from African Americans to Jewish people to homosexuals over the years, but I think it's more universal than that.

I've long felt that the X-Men are meant to represent all pubescent adolecent/teenaged kids, regardless of their race, creed or sexual persuasion. Think about it:

- X-Men has traditionally been a gateway book to pubescent comic fans.
- Marvel's mutants usually first manifest their superhuman abilities at puberty.
- They usually feel as if they are being persecuted by a world that can't possibly understand their shame/pain.
- Their bodies have suddenly become capable of fantastic things that frighten them on some level. The manifestation of these abilities demand that the affected characters reflect on the responsibility that accompanies these newfound talents and determine whether they are up to the task of (or even if they are interested in) using these new powers responsibly.
- Xavier's school is meant to teach not only a standard academic syllabus, but to train these kids in the responsible use of their new-found abilites for the express purpose of reintegrating them into mainstream human society as healthy, intelligent people who enhance common society rather than acting as a threat to themselves and others.

What has always disturbed me most is that Xavier's dream has almost always "petered out" just before the last of his own stated goals. So few of his students have been allowed to graduate from the school and move on to live normal, productive lives in "normal" human society that it really makes you question what the real reason for these kids' education was. It seems that once a student enters the Xavier school, they are never permitted to leave, instead choosing to serve an indefinite term as one of seemingly hundreds of mutants in Xavier's personal army rather than moving on to what would surely be a more mundane (but possibly much more rewarding) life as a member of normal human society. They are never allowed to work past their childish angst, learn from their mistakes and enter adult society.

In this respect, the X-Men appear to be less an effective and powerful allegory for adolescence and more a vaguely sad and directionless allegory for an arrested adolescence (A reflection of the steadily climbing age and arrested development of a majority of the current crop of die-hard fans? Could be.).

I agree that X-Men speak to people who, for whatever reason, feel like freaks/outcasts. Most teenagers do at some point, no matter how popular or loved they really are.

X-Men are broad enough that whether you are a racial minority, a sexual minority, a religious minority, whatever, or even if you just plain feel cast out and freakish, the themes can speak to you. Granted, sometimes they've drawn some more obvious links to some real world aspects but overall the more general nature of the theme holds.

Also, since the team is so large, there are a lot of characters, from different ethnic, religious, and cultural groups. The X-Men has always provided a home for "freaks." Even back in the 80s where a character like Colossus was welcomed and not kicked out for being a commie.

While the quality of the stories told has ranged widely, I think the X-Men are enduringly popular because of this identification.

best way to hit the target is to fire a lot of arrows at it.

... as seen in Hero

Stan was smart... Disenfranchised youth, basically pure disposable income up until a certain age... and hopefully by then you've hooked them.

this day and age it shouldn't matter if at some point an X-men issue might have spoke to the gay issue for somebody...

just like Uhura being black only matters because it shouldn't, and it use to.

the X-men is really about the wrongness of any form of discrimination.

way to miss the point GG

What about curing people who are different to be normal ala "X-Men The Last Stand"?

... Storm answered your question GG

besides normal changes all the time... it used to be normal to get married in your mid teens and have more then 6 kids. It also used to be normal to 'sell' your daughters to your friends in order to gain wealth or status.

the today's normal isn't tomorrow's

[quote name='Destron D-69' date='Nov 17 2009, 05:22 PM' post='1390226']
... Storm answered your question GG

Yes i've read that Cure story in the comics and they had it on the X-Men animated series. Are mutants going to be the superior being in the Marvel universe replacing humans? and you can't cure evolution right?

well Mutants are the end product of the Celestials tampering with our early ancestors.

so yes they are already a form of superior beings ... there are a few different types in the 616 though

Evolution doesn't work like it does in X-Men. Spontaneous mutations are random, often harmfull, and selected for when they're positive, adding to the gene pool. Instant changes from one generation to the next with complex powers often with no plausible physical explanation with no basis in the physical world, let alone the animal kingdom, are not likely to "just happen" because evolution isn't guided and working towards some goal of a "better" human, just something different.

Comparing the social issues of mutants with homosexuality does not extent to the idea of "homo superior" or whatever, because no one claims that mankind's future lies in everyone turning gay. That's stupid. The allegory only works when dealing purely with the persecution issues.

As for the cure, have you ever heard of the Ex gay movement? It's extremely common amongst close minded religious extremists to try to "cure" homosexuality and convert people back to heterosexuality and the 3rd movie is a perfect allegory for this.

As for Singer, I'm convinced he casts almost exclusively gay actors, and wonder if the following people are closeted gays:
- Kevin Spacey
- Patrick Stewart
- James Marter (Cyclops, not Spike, whatever that is...)
- Hugh Jackman

WOW! If he is gay, then it's a damn waste. I'm sure he dresses her up in football gear with the lights off at least a little bit, once in a while.

That's just one more riff on the theme.

Again, many kids/teens wish at some point that they could "fit in" and "be just like everyone else." Most of them don't realize yet that usually "everyone else" has their own problems and feels freakish too. Like the nerd girl wishes she could be like the popular one, to have friends, and the popular girl wishes she could do well in school without having to struggle like the nerd can. So it makes sense that the issue of "what if we could get rid of our freak factor and belong?" would crop up and the story would address whether that is a desirable thing or not.

I highly doubt the X-Men would ever all ditch their powers and become regular humans. So the theme is going to continue.

xmen is the breakfast club of the 616

No, that's the Loners/Excelsior.

Bryan Singer used Superman as a Jesus figure, none of this is really schocking.

lol Superman has always been a Jesus figure... except for when he's Moses

This is an old argument...and forgive me for skipping the majority of the thread, what does it matter if it was? Patrick Stewart has been married like twice...Hugh Jackman is married with children, Kevin Spacey I don't know about since he has kept his private life private but dated a woman for like eight years or something. X-Men has always been about prejudice and tolerance in all of it's forms anyways.

Dark Destroyer