Didio announces that in 2010 they will be releasing a Batman Beyond Miniseries.

Article found here: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/001/news/?a=9714

I hope that Dini's writing it. Also, that LEEE777 guy's casting choices are pretty bad.

I hope it's more like the first season and not at all like the second one.

I kinda agree with Keaton, or the idea behind it. Using an old Batman actor for the Eldarly Bruce Wayne. Of which Keaton is the only real Choice. Adam West is too much of a Parody of himself (though he's already done the role in parody in Kim Possible). And Part of me would like to see Hamil do a LA Joker. Its a role he enjoys, and Makeup can do alot of good things.

bah... bring back JLU.

I'd say Batman Beyond had a lot stronger storytelling than JLU.

Hopefully they'll avoid the JLU fanboyism that soured Batman Beyond for me.

If you're gonna get an old guy, get Adam West. All in all that article was horribly written, from admitting that the author was a child as recently as when Batman Beyond was out to the ridiculous unwarranted cast suggestions.

Milo Ventimiglia is all wrong, Keaton is not old enough and the Joker is dead.

I just felt like I was reading one of the million "Your cast for a Holywood Sailor Moon movie" lists I've seen in my life which are always equally impossible.

I am confused. Is this an animated feature or a comic book one?

I am cool with the author's casting choices I guess.

It also seems to suggest that this will be a cartoon mini-series, when in fact it will be a comic mini-series.

Which means it doesn't spark any interest for me.

subjective as that is, I don't like the idea of Terry being a clone of Bruce. That's just dumb to me. They also dumped what made this series interesting to me, a superhero that has to deal with everyday life (i.e. school, family, job, girlfriend, friends).

Well good thing he's no more a clone of Bruce, then your a Clone of your father then.

Well my gripe was that they set it all up to recreate Bruce's experience as identical as possible so he can become the next Batman.

I've just never liked things like that. I had no issues with his origin story, which was pretty run-of-the-mill for a Batman family character. The twist just seemed so... I don't know... thrown in to give it some kind of edge. It was as if Terry needed it to be legitimized as a Batman.

As a teen superhero fan, there was a lot I liked about him at first, but as time went on, they just seemed to drop everything. Which, of course, you can only do so many 'villain from my school' episodes, but still, there are some ways to be creative with the whole thing. Either way, I'm sure 'more action' was the reason for freeing him up, which isn't a bad thing, just not what I was hoping to see.

Oh, and I always hated his little boots.

As far as JLU goes, it gave me a chance to see the lesser characters in action. I'm a bigger fan of DC's B team than the big 3.

In the end, anything to get them back on track to the Timmverse is welcomed in my book.

Well there are elements to the twist even at the start; like how Neither Terry nor his brother look alot like Mr or Mrs Mcguiness. And while they did try to set up things to make him more like Bruce, it never happened. Everything happened how it happened with no guiding force. So while he is Bruce's son, which mostly explains away why he doesn't look like his parents, the rest would have happened if he was or not.

I do agree with the dropped bit about the Teen Hero bit, both that it can be a bit limiting and that there could be more done with it. I've just never seen how Epilouge really changed the origin, as other then the first step of making his Father Bruce, all of Amanda's plans fell apart. She had nothing to do with his father's death, nothing to do with him going to Bruce, nothing to do with him finding the batsuit, etc. That was still all him. It didn't even seem to really even change their dynamic any. That's sorta what I do like about it, that it ties up a few loose questions but doen't effect anything.

I guess for some reason, I didn't get that. I admit to only watching the finale only once though, and while i was at work, so maybe I missed out on the obvious parts you mention.

Honestly, I think a lot people did. Some people seemed to stop paying attention and go into nerd rage as soon as they heard "Bruce is Terry's Father". Of course its not the easiest episode to follow either, between the Flashbacks, flash sideways, colored memories, etc. The episode really could have been handled a lot better. So its understandable how things can be missed with only one viewing, even without being distracted. I had to watch it several times to fully get it as well.

even after all is said and done, there's still the issue of tiny feet and boots.

Yeah... I didn't really like that either. I think that was an interesting direction to go, but they went a step too far. I would have like to have seen his life intertwined with Bruce's in some unseen way like that, but not so much as to make Bruce his father. Terry became Batman on his own, he didn't need to be forced into the role. Also... for a son of Bruce that someone, I forget who, tried to shape into being Batman... he is pretty dissimilar to Bruce in a few ways. The conspirators didn't do a good job at all.

Also... intentionaly making this kid to be like Bruce... just sort of elevates Bruce to a godlike level that isn't needed. Like someone else couldn't play the role of batman, because they didn't have Bruce's god genes.

So is it more episodes or just a comic series?

It was incredibly insulting to Terry and what he went through. It said "no one BUT Bruce could possibly be a good Batman."

It was as heavy-handed and as stupid as making Picard a clone of Kirk would've been.

I hated it with a passion.

Ah good one.

I feel Terry had enough going for him to stand alone as Batman. Not THE Batman, but A Batman. He was his own character.

Though, admittedly, by that point in the show, I really didn't care anymore.

I'm no fan of Epilogue either, but the point of the episode is that Terry is his own man. They tried to shape him lik Blud was saying, but Phantasm made it so Waller abandoned that, and for all the genetic manipulation, Terry ended up making his own choices and living his own life. And in the end, he became a better person than Bruce.

Just a comic series.

I loved Epilogue for just those reasons. The idea is that despite all the careful planning and set up, Terry became Batman for his own reasons, and filled out the mantle of the bat in his own way. And then even knowing the truth of his origins, he still trudges onwards, and Bruce gets to see a sense of closure to his cursed legacy.

My problems with Epilogue weren't the theme of them making Terry Bruce's successor genetically and thematically. It was more so that the events that they used to portray this were contrived even for comic based storytelling.

Your DNA will cause you to freak out and dress up like a bat if a psycho kills your parents. It is genetics!

I think a lot of the Epilogue-hate is people not getting that clones are not exact emotional and spiritual duplicates of the original. At most, they're just identical twins. If I cloned Lex Luthor and sent him to the Kents to raise him, he wouldn't turn out to be a megalomaniacal bald supergenius through some genetic predestination. Nature vs. Nurture.

Hell, there may well be some other Bruce Wayne clone out there working as middle-management in a cubicle farm (and living a very fulfilling, happy life).

I LOVED Epilogue

for One Reason ... PHANTASM, The one person Weller could convince that this was a necessary evil was also the one person that would know EXACTLY why it couldn't be done.

Bruce's life had created something that the world needed, and now can't do without... and that's what got her to the point where she was there in the shadows behind Terry's family... and then coming to grips with what she was about to do would be the same thing that ruined her life with Bruce.

I loved it.

Terry being Bruce's kid ... has nothing to do with him being Batman, all it does is provide Speculative and doubtful circumstantial evidence for why he's so good at it.

DNA isn't a schismatic or blueprints its a set of guidelines for possible outcomes and likelihoods.

Bruce's DNA doesn't contain years of training, learning, and his great detective skills...

that's why Batman Beyond has Old Bruce ... so 'batman' can still have those things... what Terry got from Bruce is the capability to learn this stuff. the likelihood that his physical growth would be in the direction of strength, speed and agility.

Clones aren't photo copies their your much younger twin ...

and in this case with Terry's mother's contribution to the genetic mix... Terry isn't even that he's 1/3 Mrs Maginus and 2/3 Mr and Mrs Wayne

But that's just it.

Epilogue states unequivocally that you have to have Bruce Wayne's DNA in you to be a good Batman. Terry was doing just fine without it but they had to go and sacrifice his character and development to salvage Bruce's. Who they also did severe disservice to after TAS ended.

I thought that's what Waller thought was needed, but in the end, was proven to be wrong.

Things just turned out pretty well for the most part despite that.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Then what does that mean for Terry's brother? Also being Bruce's son is he running around as Matches Malone: Beyond? At best Bruce's DNA contributed the possibility of competence in those specific areas, but no more guaranteed said competence than his mother's DNA guaranteed red hair. Terry had a temper, preferred brute force to detective work most of the time, and his fighting was mostly street brawling and improvisation. Terry may have had a physical knack for martial arts, but we never saw him study any and I doubt he had the patience for it.

Thing is, Waller knew that Bruce was needed still. Beyond his physical skills, his intelligence and deduction skills were still greatly needed, and Bruce was getting too old for it. So after he took down the Royal Flush Gang, Waller tried to do the best thing she could to make sure that he'd always be around by cloning him, and trying to set him up in a similar environment. Of course, it didn't work that well, and her plan basically failed. It was a mere coincidence that Terry ran into Bruce later on and discovered his secret identity as Batman, and because of that, Terry was a totally different style Batman.



You don't have to have Bruce's DNA to be a good Batman, but Bruce was a great super hero because of who he was, and Waller was just trying to recreate that.

I'm not an Epilogue fan either, but I seem to recall at the end of the episode Terry was going to propose to his long time Girlfriend and let her in on the secret.

That's a pretty huge step in terms of character and development, and it's another reason he's a step above Brue - one because he can hold a stable relationship, and two he's willing to share the burden with an equal partner, not simply a sidekick.

Isn't that a contradiction? It was Bruce's character that made him Batman, not his DNA, so Waller sees this and grabs his DNA? She didn't mention being prepared to offer Terry the resources and training to make him into Batman after having his parents murdered, did she? Her whole plan as I remember her explaining it was "get Bruce's DNA, murder kid's parents, insta-Batman!"

Missed the "Find parents with values and ideals as close to Thomas and Martha Wayne as possible, to give the kid a similar moral upbringing."

Didn't she plan to kill them when he was ten or so? How much of a moral upbringing does one have at that age?

Three words: "Worked for Bruce" Amanda was trying to replicate as many condtions as possible. Similar parents, similar values, planned similar deaths. But that fell apart, even if it did work there is no telling that itd stil work out how she planned it. For all we know, Terry being from a more middle class family might have gotten a thearpist rather then martial arts training

See! She was the head of the country's super secret conspiracy organization and her plan to restart Batman was totally nuts! I bet everything she said in that episode apart from Terry being Bruce's son was just senile rambling. Probably planned by Bruce in advance to avoid talking to him himself.

I think she admit she was getting up in her years, and a little big senile. Didn't she forget what one of her pills was for, and it turned out to be Alzheimer's?

But yeah, the plan was crazy. I think part of why we got a different Batman, arguably a better one, was because Terry was older when fate took its course. He had time to mature more as an individual before he was cursed.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

I do find it stupid she'd tap Andrea Beaumont to be the one who did the deed to Terry's folks too. For starters, Andrea knows first hand and through her time with Bruce what losing parents does to a child. Secondly, The Phantasm had a very narrow MO - killing those associated with Salvator Valestra and his organization. If Phantasm had suddenly emerged from retirement to off an innocent couple, Bruce would suspect something was up.

Granted, by the time Bruce retired, he'd put most, if not all his rogue gallery permanently out of commission, so the list of candidates was probably extremely small. But still...Beaumont was a weak choice for prospective assassin even if she had been up to the task.


At the same time, it did finally confirm once and for all that Mask of the Phantasm did happen in-continuity.

Some people just don't get how cloning works .... Amanda was one of these...

must be too much 50's sci-fi... likely got pissed when supes'd show up and never say 'take me to your leader' ...

Amanda's plan was always very flawed, She never seemed to account for any variables. I tthink Andrea wasn't a bad choice on the surface. I could see her being conviced that "The world needs a Batman", but Amadna never though she might gt cold feet at the last moment, or any of the other possibillites you mentioned. And its all part of why I like Epilouge. There is no way in hell it would have worked out as she wanted, and everything that happened was becuase of Terry, and not becuase he has "good DNA' or anything else. It was always, all him. At most all it did was give Bruce a blood relative.

True. We can't really blame Waller for not having Batman-like foresight. If she did, she wouldn't have been in this mess to begin with.


Have we learned nothing from Clone High?

STAMOS!

I'll admit to liking Epilogue, pretty much for the same reasons.

Waller's plan was like... It's like when a scientist gives a layman's-term example of a complex subject, and then a Pointy Haired Boss or politician takes the simile at face value, and demands a modification or solution that just won't work, because they've got the wrong idea.

Example: 'The Internet is like a series of tubes.' "Okay, so let's get a drain snake and I need to attach a new sink here and how do we protect people's homes when you're soldering in new copper pipe?" '... Wait, what?'

Basically, Waller was running on the 'Clone = Carbon Copy' idea, and hence the whole scheme was bat(haha!)jive insane.

What would've worked better would've involved multiple BatJrs running around, but only Terry became Batman because of random chance, while all the others were just average, random people.

The whole point of Epilogue was to debunk a fanfic then?

It's like, the whole series showed a new guy with similar qualities become a new Batman through his own determination, then they have an episode that reveals a plot to clone Bruce and manipulate him into becoming new Batman, which was ultimately ineffective and the new guy ended up developing similar qualities and became a new Batman on his own anyway.

Clone? Terry was never a clone. He's Bruce's biological son. He's still his mother's son.



There was doubt?

yeah I never understood the "is mask TAS Canon?" thing...

the only conflicting thing is Joker ... but its not really conflicting ...

Skinny mobster quit, got fat, became a comedian and then fell in acid became Joker

The Joker, and Andrea spiriting herself away with him, was the big one.