I found this interesting, and thought some people should know in case they didn't already.

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost.php...mp;postcount=48
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost.php...mp;postcount=69





I was unaware that FP doesn't get their allotted amount and their customers could lose out.

Randy

Wow, that's beyond terrible.

Not that I expect this info to dissuade people from doing it in the future though.

No big surprise. With as many extras are popping up on eBay, they have to be costing someone something.

Remember, we have no proof that these stolen production pieces are stolen!

I'm sure they're just releasing them on eBay to measure public interest.

Or they're dealer samples!

They're listening to fan complaints so they will know to improve the toys for the REAL release.

They wanted to see how much they went for on the free market so they could continue to ARBITRARILY JACK UP THE PRICES to help further the RAPING of our CHILDHOOD.

Fascinating. I've always condemned the purchase of toys of questionable origin. But I'd always assumed that the customer received the number of toys that they paid for and that the loss was carried by Hasbro or Takara. But knowing that the loss comes directly from the little guy makes the sale and purchase of these things all the more reprehensible.

That is just plain wrong. FP has to pay Hasbro for toys stolen by Hasbro's employees?

Pretty disgusting, but unfortunately I can't see it being stopped. Not when the fandom happily buys the things.

We had a similar deal with Alpha Trion last year.

Shame they can't go after the people buying the stuff too.

Not good news. I won't be buying "early release" exclusives off ebay under any circumstances.

Something I'd like to know the answer to: when they sell new toys in box on ebay, toys sold like a month before the North American release, have these also been stolen from Hasbro? Or are these purchased in Asian stores that get the toys in stock before North America does?

I'd really like to know. I've never bought toys "Early" off ebay before, but if I ever had the desire to, I want to make sure I don't purchase stolen merchandise.

I admit I've bought a couple eBayed Animated toys, but after reading this I think I'll stop and I am glad I never bought an early Botcon toy. I don't know where I thought they were coming from in the manufactoring process, but this seems like it is extremely likely that they really are product meant for sale that is being lost. I think I naively thought that Hasbro would stop it if it was outright theft, but it sounds like they instead just past the cost on to the buyers. That really does not make me happy with their business practices.

Basically, anything you get pre-release on ebay is stolen. Whether someone who works at a manufacturing plant, distributor, warehouse or whoever steals an actual item, or whether someone does an "after hours production run" it's stolen. It's merchandise being sold that does not benefit the company that produces it.

The odds of it being legitimately purchased at a store in another country because they get the stock sooner is really really slim.

It's always been that way, it's always been a damaging thing to Hasbro, but the thing is, with a wide-scale release, it doesn't make up nearly as large a proportion of the final run. So to steal 50 pieces from a run of deluxes is a drop in a very big bucket that while annoying, isn't enough for Hasbro to spend tons and tons of money pursuing.

The difference here is that it's a small, custom run with a limited number of pieces. Stealing 50 of these is a huge proportion that gets noticed.

As far as FP paying for it if it's not a complete order, well I don't know the intricacies of importing from China (send up the Bainreese signal!). But it's possible they pay for the order up front to commission a small custom run like this. There might be significant costs or even legal entaglements inivolved in non-acceptance. I don't know all the contract details, but I'm sure it's not as simple as buying something from Walmart where you just take it up with Customer Service if something's not right.

Hmm, I'm actually taking a class on merchandise math right now and I believe that: if company A sells X number of product to company B, B pays for X number of product but only receives Y which is less than X, then company A either owes company B the difference between X and Y which is Z, or owes them back the money for Z number of units. To not make up the difference is stealing.

It is. But China doesn't care.

Here's a new argument: getting ripped off is part of the risk in dealing with manufacturers that do things dirt cheap.
No, I'm not honestly suggesting it should be this way, just that it seems to happen. I remember hearing stories about the kind of relationships that had to be formed with the manufacturing companies. You had to practically be family for them to even consider doing what you wanted them to do, and even then, they mistreat you, and you have to badger them relentlessly. What a crazy relationship.

I wonder how much this would cost if we stopped having manufacturing plants in other countries.

Takara Tomy still has their exclusives made in China, and they're not showing up early on eBay.

Good point. Why do we see all these eBayed Botcon and Animated toys but no say, Trans-scanning Optimuses and Bumblebees?

So... even though Hasbro and Takara work together and make the same products, Hasbro gets screwed but Takara doesn't? We got Animated showing up on eBay.
Is it really a matter of Hasbro not being as close to the manufacturing company as Takara, and Fun Pub. even less so?

I was told by a Japanese source that it was due to Hasbro cutting corners at the factory level in China. This was several years ago that I heard this, but it doesn't appear to have changed much (a handful of Takara test shots have made it out over the years I believe, but not many).

I wonder what that means... what could they possibly cut corners on that doesn't involve Takara's same products? Paint applications?? Isn't that called innovation?

That's simply untrue...


some of it is embezzled.

He probably meant cut corners in security or supervising rather than with the toys themselves.

... they can dictate that?

It's hard to imagine, given that these same factories produce Takara's toys. It COULD be true, but it sounds like a bit of OMG JAPAN to me; and it's one of those bits nobody can refute, so it continues to be kicked around the internet echo chamber.

Takara toys do leak out. We saw black Incinerator on eBay before we knew what he was. IIRC, Takara's red Excellion showed up in multiple auctions before he was identified as a DVD exclusive. For some reason, Takara toys don't seem to show up as often as Hasbro toys, but they do show up, and it seems to be happening more often now than it used to.

Are the toy factories owned by Hasbro and/or Takara, and are the factory workers employed by Hasbro/Takara? Or is the manufacturing subcontracted?

Free Tibet!

Robowang

It's probably a matter of percentages. Under normal management (not the short runs FP does), fewer toys slip through, but since Hasbro sells a greater volume of them, they would have a greater volume of misappropriated items.


As for Tibet, I think Robowang is right. We should all work to restore Tibet to their original autocratic overlords. The developing democracy they're getting from China is nowhere near as nice as being slaves to the aristocracy like they were before China took control. If that happened, then we could stop sending things to be manufactured by low paid Chinese workers, and instead take advantage of cheap slave labor in Tibet. Low paid labor might steal and sell on the internet, but slave labor doesn't even have access to the internet!

Exactly!

(actually, I have never bothered to learn what the whole Tibet argument entails. I just thought it'd be funny to add to an anti-China post.)

Robowang

It's only free if you live in China. just like stolen toys. (/not really a moral lesson)

Any of the innumerable stolen unpainted test-shots during the Unicron Trilogy could have been the Takara versions; there would be no way to know one way or another.

Hot Shot's light up hand. But they were most likely Hasbro's.

Randy

Hot Shot would be a bad example for many reasons. Besides the light-up hand, he's got all sorts of minor color and paint differences. And Hasbro's were produced six months earlier.

Most figures have paint and plastic differences. There aren't many that don't at least have paint differences if not both.

M "Noted" Sipher

It's probably real easy to tell whether those were for Hasbro or Takara depending on when they were leaked. For both Armada and Cybertron, North American and Japanese releases were along different time frames. Galaxy Force was released about six months ahead of Cybertron, and the earliest stuff we saw was Japanese magazine stuff, no leaked toys seen, with the first stolen prototype (Scourge and Supreme Starscream) not showing up until the beginning of January, just after the show started and the toys were released. The first time we saw anybody was at special convention displays and in Japanese magazines.

Timing does make it much easier. For example, does anyone think there's even the slightest chance that ANY of the leaked Animated toys are meant for Japanese release?

Indeed, I definitely don't think it's because of any quality difference between Hasbro and Takara releases (Takara does seem to have a lot of quality problems), but there is obviously some policy difference that causes far more of Hasbro's product to leak out. Is it really just a security issue?

-Hydra

Are Americans more likely to get these early versions off of online-auctions than the Japanese would be? Are more toys stolen from Hasbro because they know they can sell them over here a lot easier? Or is that not a factor?

I'd like to add that we saw test shots for every single Alternators toy, but I don't recall seeing a single diecast parts/right-hand steering wheel/Japanese exclusive deco Binaltech test shot pre-release.

The leaked testshot of the gold plated Optimus Prime must totally be Hasbro's.
Since Hasbro doesn't do Lucky Draw, there are sure to be mass-release Goldie Primes for everyone! Hooray!