Avengers Fans Assemble!, SPOILER laden discussion!!! Options

[Sean Whitmore]

Bite your tongue!

I long to see the love triangle of Black Knight, Crystal, and Sersi played out on the big screen.

After a Deathcry solo movie to properly set the stage, of course.

[ZacWilliam1]

Bite your tongue!

I long to see the love triangle of Black Knight, Crystal, and Sersi played out on the big screen.

After a Deathcry solo movie to properly set the stage, of course.

This.

You can mock the fashion as 90s. (It definately was.) but it was a great run with great Steve Epting art and lots of cool drama. I LOVE the Gatherers storyline more than any other. It'll never happen on the big screen. Sadly. But that will always be "my Avengers" team. And the Black Knight is easily my favorite Avenger of all time because of it.


-ZacWilliam, Kurt Busiek's run is the best Avengers run ever IMO, but Harras's is my Favorite still.

[Cheetimus Primal]

Really? Sorry but I was not a fan of Earth's Third Mightiest Heroes.

[Cheetimus Primal]

So... Mark Ruffalo did the motion capture for the Hulk. I really love this guy.

[Cat]

Bite your tongue!

I long to see the love triangle of Black Knight, Crystal, and Sersi played out on the big screen.

After a Deathcry solo movie to properly set the stage, of course.

This.

You can mock the fashion as 90s. (It definately was.) but it was a great run with great Steve Epting art and lots of cool drama. I LOVE the Gatherers storyline more than any other. It'll never happen on the big screen. Sadly. But that will always be "my Avengers" team. And the Black Knight is easily my favorite Avenger of all time because of it.


-ZacWilliam, Kurt Busiek's run is the best Avengers run ever IMO, but Harras's is my Favorite still.

'Operation: Galactic Storm' still holds up as one of the best crossovers in that timeframe, IMO.

[Fangwing]

So... Mark Ruffalo did the motion capture for the Hulk. I really love this guy.

I love him because he brought a pathos to Banner that neither Eric Bana nor Edward Norton could really deliver. Even as Hulk, he was relatable. Which is a feat in and of itself...


If they do a Mark Ruffalo Hulk movie, I want to see Smart Hulk make an appearance.

[Cheetimus Primal]

Bite your tongue!

I long to see the love triangle of Black Knight, Crystal, and Sersi played out on the big screen.

After a Deathcry solo movie to properly set the stage, of course.

This.

You can mock the fashion as 90s. (It definately was.) but it was a great run with great Steve Epting art and lots of cool drama. I LOVE the Gatherers storyline more than any other. It'll never happen on the big screen. Sadly. But that will always be "my Avengers" team. And the Black Knight is easily my favorite Avenger of all time because of it.


-ZacWilliam, Kurt Busiek's run is the best Avengers run ever IMO, but Harras's is my Favorite still.

'Operation: Galactic Storm' still holds up as one of the best crossovers in that timeframe, IMO.

Very yes! One of my all time faves.

[Smitty]

If they do a Mark Ruffalo Hulk movie, I want to see Smart Hulk make an appearance.

Is that more or less the same as Gray Hulk?

[ZacWilliam1]

If they do a Mark Ruffalo Hulk movie, I want to see Smart Hulk make an appearance.

Is that more or less the same as Gray Hulk?

Depends.

Some use that term to refer to the Grey Hulk.

Some use it to refer to the Professor Hulk from the Pantheon Era

And some use it to refer to the Modern Hulk whose kinda the Green and Grey mixed (looks and powers of the Green, intelligence and cunning of the Grey.)

What I would REALLY love to see is an adaption of Peter David's classic Gamabomb story with the Grey Hulk vs the Leader. That is the single greatest Hulk storyline ever IMO.


-ZacWilliam, what I'd do is Mark Hulk Movie 1) Reintro the concept, create the She-Hulk (for Avengers) and leave him the Grey Hulk as the surprise at the end. Mark Hulk Movie 2) Gammabomb saga adaptation. Plenty of SHEILD in that too. Mark Hulk Movie 3) Pantheon/Professor Hulk saga. Mark Hulk Movie 4) Planet Hulk. Yeah, I'm a dreamer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

This post has been edited by ZacWilliam1: May 10 2012, 11:17 AM

[Airachnid]

-ZacWilliam, what I'd do is Mark Hulk Movie 1) Reintro the concept, create the She-Hulk (for Avengers) and leave him the Grey Hulk as the surprise at the end. Mark Hulk Movie 2) Gammabomb saga adaptation. Plenty of SHEILD in that too. Mark Hulk Movie 3) Pantheon/Professor Hulk saga. Mark Hulk Movie 4) Planet Hulk. Yeah, I'm a dreamer.

Very much this! I don't know much about the Hulk these days. Never heard of Grey Hulk and Red Hulk until this past year, would love to learn more about them and hopefully see more Hulk movies done right. If the way Hulk was handled in The Avengers is any indication, then I think they've finally figured him out.

[ZacWilliam1]

Very much this! I don't know much about the Hulk these days. Never heard of Grey Hulk and Red Hulk until this past year, would love to learn more about them and hopefully see more Hulk movies done right. If the way Hulk was handled in The Avengers is any indication, then I think they've finally figured him out.

Well "these days" is reletive. The Grey Hulk's hayday was the late 80s and early 90s.

If you want to learn about him I strongly suggest picking up some or all of the "Marvel Visionaries" Peter David trade paber back collections. They've done 8 so far covering a large part of his epic run on the book. It's the best run on the character ever and some really good stuff. The Grey Hulk years, including the Gamabomb story that really is a standout would be in the early ones somewhere.

The Red Hulk is a different person and character entirely (one of Banner's classic supporting cast) pumped up and a bit out of character.


Hulk was wonderful in Avengers, yeah. They convinced me they could do something great with the classic green, grey, and modern Hulk. The Proffessor Hulk was a bit different tone wise - so I'd be interested to see what the actor could do there, but yeah they proved a good Hulk movie could be amazing, if they get someone who "gets" him as well as Whedon and co did in this film.


-ZacWilliam, owns every issue of the Hulk from the original Stan Lee/Jack Kirby mini from the 60s that introduced him through the end of PaD's run, so I'm a bit of a Hulk nut. (After PaD I've only kept up with the "good stuff" Planet Hulk/WWHulk basically.)

[Ironbite]

For me the best Hulk will always be Professor Hulk. Just the right combo of brains and brawn that always makes me squee. Really hope that in the next Hulk movie we get him or some combonation of him.

As for getting more people into the Avengers 2....easy peasy. Solo movies. That's all you have to do. Establish the characters in solo movies and you don't need to establish anyone in Avengers 2. Maybe 1 new person but that's it. Hell, you can do this with bad guys in the same solo movies. It's not that hard to do.

Ironbite-very easy solution and allows time to be given to people without making the movie run 3 hours.

[ZacWilliam1]

'Operation: Galactic Storm' still holds up as one of the best crossovers in that timeframe, IMO.

Beware. Minor rant:

Ok I'm on record as loving the Bob Harras/Steve Epting run from like #334 to 375 already. And I do whole heartedly.

After that though came "The Crossing" and despite springing from seeds left in the run that really I did like "The Crossing" is rather a mess. It featured tons of really bad 90s art and a jumbled, messy, very self-concious attempt to ape the X-men of the era. Though I was into it at the time, and went way out of my way to seek out every issue back as it was coming out it was not, and is not, very good at all.

Guess what? The Crossing is getting a $100 dollar Omnibus hardcover collection.

Not "Operation Galactic Storm" which was indead wonderfully handeled both art, story and organization wise and deserves to be in-print with an Avengers movie out.

Not the GOOD part of Harra's run with mostly great art and lot's of character development and mystery and coolness.

Nope.

Folks attracted by the great movie can head to book stores and drop a ton of money on a terrible mess that makes comics and Avengers and an era I like the rest of look like a terrible mess. And then they can never buy comics again.

Great planning there Marvel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)


-ZacWilliam, the number of classic Avengers runs, great stuff, not in collected print right now is absolutely astounding and sad at the same time. Terrible planning.

[Kalidor]

I'm a little biased towards the Professor Hulk myself since the first non transformers I ever bought was the issue that the 3 personalities (Rage Hulk, Grey Hulk and Banner) got merged at the end. It was the one where Green Hulk ripped out of Banner's skin. (I bought two comics that day, the other was Amazing Spider-Man 336)

I was actually kind of disappointed years later when I read that the "merged" Hulk was just a cop out of a new persona instead of actually being a healed Banner, but it is what it is. I haven't or won't waste my time with the Red Hulk garbage.

[Sean Whitmore]

"The Crossing" getting the prestige hardcover treatment really makes me laugh.

You have to understand, nobody likes it.

I daresay I've never seen a defense of it, or even someone trying to mitigate its awfulness.

It's not like the Clone Saga, which started out as a perfectly good story before Marketing raped it into a never-ending crossover event.

It's not like Avengers Disassembled, which stunk, but resulted in a status quo change that drastically raised the Avengers' popularity.

It's not even like Civil War, which had action-movie logic and bad characterization but also had great art, great moments, and a germ of a good idea at its core.

It was a poorly thought-out, poorly coordinated, poorly executed Hail Mary pass to convince people "dear God, please read us, stuff's happening here, we swear!" by simultaneously aping the Image art style and the controversial character changes going on at DC (this was right around the time of Hal Jordan turning evil, Aquaman getting his beard and hook, etc).

And everything about it has either been specifically retconned or outright ignored, so not only is it a worse story than the above examples, but it's a less-remembered one.

I just have to laugh imagining the Marvel exec who okayed this collection, full of swagger, flipping the bird to a computer screen and taunting, "I hugging DARE you to buy this!"

This post has been edited by Sean Whitmore: May 10 2012, 05:50 PM

[ZacWilliam1]

Yes. "The Crossing" is BAD. Captial letters entirely necessary.

And given the GREAT Avengers runs people can not go into a book store and buy right now, with hype around the property that may NEVER be matched, its existance instead of them is just an absolute sin.

Whoever's incharge of coordinating TPBs with Movie releases at Marvel deserves to be fired quite honestly.


-ZacWilliam, The Crossing gives that whole era (even the good stuff) a bad name and I hate it even more for that. At least the Black Knight and Sersi were safe from besmerchment having kicked off for the UltraVerse well before the crappyness began...

This post has been edited by ZacWilliam1: May 10 2012, 06:00 PM

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm a little biased towards the Professor Hulk myself since the first non transformers I ever bought was the issue that the 3 personalities (Rage Hulk, Grey Hulk and Banner) got merged at the end. It was the one where Green Hulk ripped out of Banner's skin. (I bought two comics that day, the other was Amazing Spider-Man 336)

I loved that scene. It becomes even more powerful when you realize that the green Hulk was making his first reappearance in over 40 issues, since before the start of Peter David's run.

[ZacWilliam1]

I'm a little biased towards the Professor Hulk myself since the first non transformers I ever bought was the issue that the 3 personalities (Rage Hulk, Grey Hulk and Banner) got merged at the end. It was the one where Green Hulk ripped out of Banner's skin. (I bought two comics that day, the other was Amazing Spider-Man 336)

I loved that scene. It becomes even more powerful when you realize that the green Hulk was making his first reappearance in over 40 issues, since before the start of Peter David's run.

Awesome stuff yeah. And some of my favorite comics ever. Gosh that was a GREAT era to be buying Hulk.

Really, there's very little of Peter David's run, until the very end, that isn't really astoundingly WONDERFUL.

The Gamabomb stuff is great. It gives the Grey Hulk a great unique voice and turns the Leader into a supervillian who should be one of the scariest in the Marvel U because he wins. HE's that smart.

The Las Vegas storyline... well, I've never liked Purves art even a little bit, but Joe Fixit is Iconic, Marlo's great and the writting is really fun and the plot unique.

The Return to Green (Madman's Countdown through the merger) - is some of the best the book's ever been. The story is deep and dynamic has unmatched character moments, huge changes, surprises, fun.

The Whole Entire Professor Hulk Pantheon Era - it's just years of spectacular stuff. (Even crossover issues like with the Infinity Gauntlet were AMAZING). It could have gone on forever and I would have LOVED it. He was a great character and they were an amazing all new supporting cast. I wish Marvel had put PaD on a Pantheon or Ulysess book.

Post Pantheon I think the book kinda lost it's way due to Marvel tossing it to their attempt at a Virtigo imprint, and then shoving it into a bunch of crossovers and events that kept knocking it upside the head but there's so many years of spectacular work there it's just astounding.


-ZacWilliam, you've just succeeded in making me want to reread the entire run. They mine any of PAD's stuff for a Hulk sequel or two or four and they've got a goldmine.

[CORVUS]

For me the best Hulk will always be Professor Hulk. Just the right combo of brains and brawn that always makes me squee. Really hope that in the next Hulk movie we get him or some combonation of him.

"Inevitably, gentlemen... Hulk WILL smash."

[Sean Whitmore]

Ironically, our best bet for a Hulk movie focusing on his different personas would have been a sequel to the much-maligned Ang Lee movie. Which, don't get me wrong, was flawed, but was playing right out of the Peter David psychological playbook.

If any future Hulk sequel/cameo deviates much from the "Hulk smash" personality, I'll be quite surprised.