Hasbro Brand Panel - 3pm CDT Options

[Shockwave 75]

-ZacWilliam, not that I'm arguing we do away with anyone, personally I want them ALL.

Becuase if there is the one thing the Decepticons lack its usurpers for Leadership! And Alt mode? Shockwave has been just about everthing; gun, car, tank, mobile cannon/satalite, jet...

That's kind of purposely missing the point. Shockwave is a distinct major character without a real counterpart. The insecticons are a team of lots of similar guys, and he was just suggesting maybe shining a spotlight on a few of the lesser seen members instead of the usual 3 might be nice.


-ZacWilliam, this just seems to be a weird thing to go out of your way to pick an argument with...

Define distinct, becuase We've seen him as mostly useless Sycophant, a logical usurper, A super scientist, A psycho killer, an infiltrator/spy. Almost everytime Shockwave gets used he's just barely the same character. He tends to fill whatever role is needed.

Distinct as in a single very unique and memorable character/toy from 85 with a distiinct size and look and general fuction as "logical powerful secondary villian."

-ZacWilliam, also that's really nitpicking in a way that's entirely irrelivent even if true, to what we're actually talking about, which is that there are a bunch of Insecticons and we could maybe stand to have some variety in the ones that get spotlight...

And Shockwave has a very distinct look. He's not easily mistaken for anyone else, whereas I have seen people mistake Shrapnel/Chop Shop, Kickback/Ransack, and Bombshell/Barrage.

Shockwave gets mistaken for no one.

[Database]

-ZacWilliam, not that I'm arguing we do away with anyone, personally I want them ALL.

Becuase if there is the one thing the Decepticons lack its usurpers for Leadership! And Alt mode? Shockwave has been just about everthing; gun, car, tank, mobile cannon/satalite, jet...

That's kind of purposely missing the point. Shockwave is a distinct major character without a real counterpart. The insecticons are a team of lots of similar guys, and he was just suggesting maybe shining a spotlight on a few of the lesser seen members instead of the usual 3 might be nice.


-ZacWilliam, this just seems to be a weird thing to go out of your way to pick an argument with...

Define distinct, becuase We've seen him as mostly useless Sycophant, a logical usurper, A super scientist, A psycho killer, an infiltrator/spy. Almost everytime Shockwave gets used he's just barely the same character. He tends to fill whatever role is needed.

Distinct as in a single very unique and memorable character/toy from 85 with a distiinct size and look and general fuction as "logical powerful secondary villian."

-ZacWilliam, also that's really nitpicking in a way that's entirely irrelivent even if true, to what we're actually talking about, which is that there are a bunch of Insecticons and we could maybe stand to have some variety in the ones that get spotlight...

And Shockwave has a very distinct look. He's not easily mistaken for anyone else, whereas I have seen people mistake Shrapnel/Chop Shop, Kickback/Ransack, and Bombshell/Barrage.

Shockwave gets mistaken for no one.

Probably becuase Whirl doesn't get much use.

[ZacWilliam1]

I'm not trying to argue that there aren't variations on who Shockwave is. Again thats entirely besides the point.

It was originally said that Hasbro leaving two of the "main three" Insecticons aside due to name issues and focusing instead on two of the lesser known team members would be the same as their leaving Shockwave behind and not doing him again because of name issues.

I was just saying that Shockwave is a singular toy/entity (whether what that entity is like in any given place varies or not is not the point) where as the Insecticons are a team whose members can be somewhat easily interchanged.


-ZacWilliam, Characters differ in different continuities is DUH but that doesn't really have much to do with anything.

[Bass X0]

I thought we had already covers the color thing already, remember Armada and the Hotshot and Demolisher repaints both being red and having to be in different waves? I know we have come to the point now where Hasbro is confident in people to tell a tank form a car but no one can tell a car from a car.

I think I got Windcharger confused with Hubcap.

I'm sure I walked away from a Windcharger I had been looking for because at a glance he looked like Hubcap. But they are both packaged in robot modes.

[Lukeblast]

Seems kind of silly to assume that this dinosaur recognition issue is so complex considering two decades ago Dinobots kept shipping for years due to popularity despite all featuring similar colors (and selling at a higher pricepoint). Then again in Euro Classics and G2.

That is the entire problem with this idea - it has been done before and done very successfully.

Well yeah... about 20 or 30 years ago, depending on which iteration you're talking about.

It is easily observable and provable fact that every level of retail toys has changed significantly since then, and it borders on willful ignorance to claim that the the marketing and distribution of decades past somehow applies to today's market.

[The Phazer]

Well yeah... about 20 or 30 years ago, depending on which iteration you're talking about.

It is easily observable and provable fact that every level of retail toys has changed significantly since then, and it borders on willful ignorance to claim that the the marketing and distribution of decades past somehow applies to today's market.

Just as it requires actual willful ignorance to ignore hugely successful lines where most of the items are much more similar than the Dinobots, such as Pixar's Cars, Thomas and Friends or virtually *all* girls lines. Heck, Power Rangers differentiates itself on nothing more than colour.

The idea that you couldn't release Dinobots in mixed colour schemes G2 style and then over time get out G1 coloured repaints is silly.

Phazer

[mx-01 archon]

The idea that you couldn't release Dinobots in mixed colour schemes G2 style and then over time get out G1 coloured repaints is silly.

Phazer

I don't think anybody claimed they couldn't.

Heck, I opened this line of discussion on the basis that the best way to get a set of Dinobots out to market again is to be non-traditionalist. Getting all five, in their classic grey/red/gold colourschemes is the real hurdle in today's retailer-controlled market.

[▲ndrusi]

Well yeah... about 20 or 30 years ago, depending on which iteration you're talking about.

It is easily observable and provable fact that every level of retail toys has changed significantly since then, and it borders on willful ignorance to claim that the the marketing and distribution of decades past somehow applies to today's market.

Just as it requires actual willful ignorance to ignore hugely successful lines where most of the items are much more similar than the Dinobots, such as Pixar's Cars, Thomas and Friends or virtually *all* girls lines. Heck, Power Rangers differentiates itself on nothing more than colour.

The idea that you couldn't release Dinobots in mixed colour schemes G2 style and then over time get out G1 coloured repaints is silly.

Phazer

Who are you arguing with?

[Lukeblast]

Well yeah... about 20 or 30 years ago, depending on which iteration you're talking about.

It is easily observable and provable fact that every level of retail toys has changed significantly since then, and it borders on willful ignorance to claim that the the marketing and distribution of decades past somehow applies to today's market.

Just as it requires actual willful ignorance to ignore hugely successful lines where most of the items are much more similar than the Dinobots, such as Pixar's Cars, Thomas and Friends or virtually *all* girls lines. Heck, Power Rangers differentiates itself on nothing more than colour.

All of those having significant, wildly popular, and global media exposure to drive home the idea that the similar/repainted versions are unique. Dinobots do not currently have that benefit.

Additionally, and as I noted before, customers are practically trained to see repainted cars as unique--that's most of the diecast aisle. It also fits right into the Transformers design/repaint philosophy in a way that a bunch of dinosaurs do not. The girls' lines are similar, in that customers are trained to see various Barbies (for example) that are merely outfitted in different ways as individuals.

The idea that you couldn't release Dinobots in mixed colour schemes G2 style and then over time get out G1 coloured repaints is silly.

The suggestion was brought up, discussed, and I don't believe anyone even attempted to counter it.

Not that ANYTHING you said has a single thing to do with one word I that I said.

[Daytonus]

Yeah, it'd be one thing if Hasbro had a show called "TERRIFIC TRANSFORMIN' SUPER DINOBOTS" about a group of teenage dinorobot ninjas with attitude taking council from a floating Grand Mal. But they don't, they have a show called Transformers, which has dozens of concepts, of which the Dinobots had increasingly become marginalized over the past decade and Grimlock increasingly becoming synedochic of the Dinobots in general. We'll see what FOC does for them.

This post has been edited by Daytonus: May 12 2012, 02:11 AM

[MrBlud]

"TERRIFIC TRANSFORMIN' SUPER DINOBOTS" about a group of teenage dinorobot ninjas with attitude taking council from a floating Grand Mal.

NOTE: I want this as a Botcon set at some point.

[Lukeblast]

Perhaps tangential to the overall discussion, perhaps not... I speculated that perhaps the problem with Dinobots is that they ARE recognizable and repaints would not be viewed as new characters like cars and planes.

Power Rangers has been brought up a few times, and I notice that the property tends to get a lot of non-media product... motorcycles and action-feature figures and entire zords on occasion. But something they almost never do is repaint the "show-Zords" outright. I've never seen it happen outside of a few TRU-exclusives in the Lost Galaxy era, and those were themselves several years old and long off the shelves.

I wonder if that isn't in the same ballpark... they repaint the figures because "the Batman effect" says you can do all kinds of crazy variants of your main character and people will accept it as whatever you intend and/or buy multiple versions of the same character. But the robots... repainting the robot and potentially getting it on the shelf next to the original version could work against them. If it's too obvious customers will assume it's the same thing, even if it isn't. Then you run the risk of thinning out the interest in the original/primary version if/when people buy the repaint instead.

Looking at the toy aisles, the stuff that gets away with repaints tends toward vehicles and "traditional" action figures. There's plenty of "creatures" in various toylines, but even when those are reused, they tend to take a break and the previous version(s) are long off the shelves. Hasbro's desires tend toward things they can repaint immediately, not stuff they have to sit on for a few years before they can reuse.

Again, I'm just speculating here. There are probably copious examples to support and dispute me. It's merely a spitballing of ideas on how things might work based on too many visits to the toy department.

[Shockwave 75]

"TERRIFIC TRANSFORMIN' SUPER DINOBOTS" about a group of teenage dinorobot ninjas with attitude taking council from a floating Grand Mal.

NOTE: I want this as a Botcon set at some point.

And it must be accompanied by an OVA where they fight rediculous foam rubber monsters and gesticulate wildly to communicate.

[Smitty]

Perhaps tangential to the overall discussion, perhaps not... I speculated that perhaps the problem with Dinobots is that they ARE recognizable and repaints would not be viewed as new characters like cars and planes.

I already pointed out that there are plenty of dinos in Transformers that the Dinobots could be repainted into. Overkill and Trypticon have been done, there there is Terrorsaur, Slugfest, and plenty of Dinosaur like monsters out there for retools of the Dinobots.

[Daytonus]

But we're not talking about what the fiction can support but what the market can. The fiction can support "Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III," but I've never seen it on shelves.

[Walky]

But we're not talking about what the fiction can support but what the market can. The fiction can support "Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III," but I've never seen it on shelves.

I see that on shelves every time I close my eyes.

[Smitty]

But we're not talking about what the fiction can support but what the market can. The fiction can support "Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III," but I've never seen it on shelves.

Straxus and Black Shadow.

[Cheetimus Primal]

But we're not talking about what the fiction can support but what the market can. The fiction can support "Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III," but I've never seen it on shelves.

Straxus and Black Shadow.

Those exist, yes. Your point? Unless there was a series of blue tank all with different names clogging the shelves that I missed entirely.

[Walky]

But we're not talking about what the fiction can support but what the market can. The fiction can support "Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III," but I've never seen it on shelves.

Straxus and Black Shadow.

You don't know who Rorza the Rocket-Cycle Racer from Rigel III is, do you.

[Smitty]

But we're not talking about what the fiction can support but what the market can. The fiction can support "Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III," but I've never seen it on shelves.

Straxus and Black Shadow.

You don't know who Rorza the Rocket-Cycle Racer from Rigel III is, do you.

Yeah I read Shortpacked! But I was trying to point out that Hasbro is more ballsey that they use to be and if Comic only bots and Japan only bots can get a chance then maybe bots like Overkill and Trypticon and other more obscure can get toys too. But not Rorza he's a tool and no one likes him.