Episode 28, Orion Pax Part 2 Options

[Razorsaw]

But the problem is, there's not much you can do with 'has no emotions' for a character trait. It comes off as boring. Notice how Spock and other Vulcans only ever get interesting when they go nuts.

I disagree, but that's not what they're doing with Prime. He's someone whose emotionally distant from people. That seems like a subtle difference, but it's really worlds apart.

Lines like him not wanting to see something funny spoke VOLUMES to me. What makes him like that? It's tragic and I want to see more of stuff like that. It'd be a crime to replace that with something else so he can do the robot with the others and play basketball.

[Kalidor]

If Prime was a Jolly, back patting, drinking buddy it wouldn't have made much impact for him to become Orion Pax.

[Wingus]

But the problem is, there's not much you can do with 'has no emotions' for a character trait. It comes off as boring. Notice how Spock and other Vulcans only ever get interesting when they go nuts.

I disagree, but that's not what they're doing with Prime. He's someone whose emotionally distant from people. That seems like a subtle difference, but it's really worlds apart.

Lines like him not wanting to see something funny spoke VOLUMES to me. What makes him like that? It's tragic and I want to see more of stuff like that. It'd be a crime to replace that with something else so he can do the robot with the others and play basketball.

While I do enjoy the concept of this kind of stoic Prime, and I loved that scene myself, I think we need more of such scenes of Prime distancing himself from the lighthearted things like that - or even some self-reflection regarding the distancing. Not that he needs to be mopey all the time, but just something that shows how he might let his guard down when he's alone. Seeing him bearing the burden is neat, but it's more interesting to see him struggle with it. So yeah, I agree, but I also think we could stand to get more stuff thrown our way.

Though I do hope that whatever comes of the Vector Sigma stuff, we see more bits like when he told Raf he'd bring him a snowball.

[Nyarlathotep]

"Hey Optimus, you wanna see something funny?"
"No."

I don't care, I love him.

[TheOptimusPrime]

Just be glad that this Optimus is boring on purpose, unlike Unicron Trilogy, who was boring because he was bad.

[Mouse_Pad]

An interesting moment that I don't think anybody has mentioned is when Breakdown calls space bridge control. Ratchet and Bulkhead both say that they can't respond because Breakdown will recognize their voices. Just before they call Fowler, they both step back and give Bumblebee a quick glance. That's probably foreshadowing for the upcoming Bumblebee story.

[Kil]

I thought it was just a quick "Hey, don't look at me, I can't even talk!" gag.

[Sockie]

I thought it was just a quick "Hey, don't look at me, I can't even talk!" gag.

Same here. Don't think it was meant to be looked too deeply into.

[Tm_Silverclaw]

I thought it was just a quick "Hey, don't look at me, I can't even talk!" gag.

I thought it was just a quick "Hey, don't look at me, I can't even talk!" gag.

Same here. Don't think it was meant to be looked too deeply into.

While that -may- be true... there have been a lot of things in Prime that people have assumed where one shots that came back.

[Powered Convoy]

Yeah I thought it was hinting to the fact he was once able to talk or something.

Randy

[Sean Whitmore]

I thought the Star Wars reference was silly at first, right up until Fowler's horrified expression, which absolutely sold it. And Breakdown's unexpected response just slayed me.

Seeing him bearing the burden is neat, but it's more interesting to see him struggle with it.

Exactly. To improve Fwiffo's analogy a bit: seeing Spock espouse pure logic is interesting; seeing him respond to a challenge to his pure logic is compelling.

[TheOptimusPrime]

You're not going to see Spock respond to that challenge if he gets brain-washed into his old persona "Frat Boy Sporg" though. We're not seeing Optimus's stoic struggle, we just have poor baby Orion Pax trying to Google his way out of a web of lies.

Let's hope he doesn't end up on Cybertronian Uncyclopedia.

[Cybersnark]

While he's looking for the Cybertronian equivalent of Snopes?

[Moroboshi]

I half-thought Bumblebee was gonna speak!

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

As far as Prime/Pax goes, I'd rather they kept him as Pax, but used that to explore his past as Optimus. Shed some light, and see how this 2.0 version manages to react to and process the information. It might weigh differently on him, if there is some sense of detachment, but still explain how he got to be the way he was.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

[Jackpot]

WOW. That was easily one of the most purely enjoyable Prime eps yet. Despite being plot-wise nothing but a bridge, I'd put it right up with "Rock Bottom" just for excellence in execution. The animation, direction, dialogue, expressions, music, even the foley were top-notch. And, most importantly, they're finally starting to jell in a way that makes me feel it. I laughed, I was amazed. Good stuff.

I especially loved his escape from the Nemesis. *THAT* was pure awesome! Like when he transformed mid-flight and jumped on the back of a flying Eradicon- just as crazy good as any action bit from the movies!!

YES. I'm a sucker for a good tracking shot, and that one was really nice.

And I liked seeing how stern and hard-nosed Bulk and Ratchet were being with him when they were bartering information.

Yeah, they were damn cold. No "Autobot code" dilemmas. I loved watching Screamer realize his metaphorical footing was dropping out from under him.

(blatant Star Wars reference, but I loved Fowler's reaction shot right after he said it- like, "OMG did I really just say that?!)

That was the point where I literally LOLed. A lot of stuff got conveyed through facial expressions in this episode. I'm glad that TF CGI animation is finally returning to - and surpassing - what we got last century.

"I know it's thankless down there. Keep up the good work."

Aww! Breakdown's got a soft spot!

Yeah, that was nice to see too. Not every awesome thing has to be an act of badassery.

Seeing Cybertron for an extended period of time is great. I wonder how much is CGI and how much is painted background. Either way, it looks spectacular.

Absolutely agreed. I haven't seen such a gorgeous Cybertron in a cartoon since... man, I don't even know. The BM finale?

And I love that Jack's just excited to be on another planet, but Arcee's ashamed to show him her home looking a mess. Very believable reactions from both of them.

Yeah. And her delivery was perfect, too - I felt for her.

Speaking of Arcee, I was a little concerned there would be pointless drama when Ratchet kept his "reliable source"'s identity secret, but her nonchalantly accurate assumption a few minutes later was great. I'm happy to see the Starscream/Megatron dynamic move beyond the G1 status quo but still be interesting in its own right.

Man, I love this Starscream, and I love that Megatron has had absolutely enough of him.

Me too. He's great as a loose cannon, and his voice-acting is better than ever. I loved his scene with Orion - something about his laugh and the way he delivered the last line before the cut was fantastic.

Just be glad that this Optimus is boring on purpose, unlike Unicron Trilogy, who was boring because he was bad.

The issue is in conveying the former. We know in retrospect that the woodenness was intentional, but at the time it was too hard to tell. Even when the dialogue started to address it, it was still difficult to buy it on a gut level. The "see something funny" line went a long way towards establishing the concept convincingly - a few more of those earlier on would've done wonders. Not that it really matters anymore; I don't think Optimus is going to be the same even after his memories are restored.

Other thoughts... I'm really happy Miko stayed put, at least for this episode. Could she be genuinely, if begrudgingly, maturing? The Insecticon's movements were awesomely creepy. Can't wait to see more of that. I know the humans are paired up with specific Autobots, but it seemed like Bulkhead would've been a much better choice to send to Cybertron. Jack just looks so terribly vulnerable riding Arcee. Have we heard of "Project Iacon" before?

Anyway. Fantastic ep. I hope they keep the bar raised.

[BB Shockwave]

Starscream dealing with Orion was the most enjoyable part of this 3-parter for me... it's a pity it was interrupted before it could even go anywhere. Also, I wonder what'd have happened if Orion had met Airachnid... that'd have been a sure tip-off he is in bad company. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-hotrod.gif)

But the problem is, there's not much you can do with 'has no emotions' for a character trait. It comes off as boring. Notice how Spock and other Vulcans only ever get interesting when they go nuts.

I totally disagree. They work extremely well, especially when used alongside emotional characters they compliment - see the Tuvok-Neelix relationship in Voyager, or Data trying to learn emotions with Geordi.

The main problem with Soundwave is not emotionlessness - it's that he doesn't even react. He just stands there most of the time, doing nothing. You could replace him with a Vehicon and it wouldn't be a difference. Heck, the two Vehicons who took their agression out on a defenseless Orion Pax had more characterisation then Soundwave.

This post has been edited by BB Shockwave: Mar 6 2012, 10:08 AM

[HellCat]

Two episodes in I'm quite enjoying this. I really like the lighter tone Cullen has given Orion. This isn't the same 'forced epic' voice we've heard since the 2007 movie, it's clearly a slightly younger and less hardened version. Really sells Orion as being that bit too naive and steps away from the guy we know will have to carry a heavy burden.

Starscream has come a long way too. His sheer desperation in the bargaining scene came off well. After Animated I wasn't sure I wanted to see the same dynamic explored with this Starscream but they seem to be going much deeper with it. Plus him sneaking around and such takes on another level now we have his actions in Fall of Cybertron to take in too.

It's from the previous episode but I really liked the Autobot argument. It did a good job as placing Jack as a voice of reason without making him too 'holier than thou'. It was believable tension and I like how it continued into this one, with things meant to encourage taken the wrong way. Jack I think is going to go down as one of the strongest human characters we've ever had. He started on paper as a Sam Witwicky expy and has become so much better.