The Death of Optimus Prime Preview, A new era begins... Options

[Galaxia]

It was an okay issue. Pretty much entirely an exposition dump -- certainly a lot of new characters and ideas are introduced. Prime's story, on the other hand, is a bit... prefunctory. It fits with the wishy-washy Prime introduced by Mike Costa, but boy is it a silly idea. Almost childish, honestly. I found myself basically hating Prime by the end there. He comes back, he doesn't really understand what's going on, so he throws a tantrum and storms off. Fine, Prime. Take your bat and ball and go home. We'll play cricket with a tennis ball instead.

In the end it kinda reminded me of All Hail Megatron -- lots of things have happenned that don't really do anything. Lots of spinning wheels and conversations that turn in circles and go nowhere. It was far more enjoyable than an issue of All Hail Megatron, but it was hardly a GREAT comic.

So yeah... it's an okay little info-dump, but it'd basically set up the new series by about halfway through, and then was spinning its wheels for the rest of the issue. I'm looking forwards to things actually happenning in the new issues. The disappointing thing though is the settups... no Earth interactions? No humans? Yay?

Oh well.

--Andrew S.

I agree completely,I'm all for adding dimension to characters but that is not what Chaos, or this is.Prime is absolutely pathetic and weak IDW is completely indifferent they have got Optimus and others going completely against character.However I'm very grateful Costa is gone I hope he stays gone, but as long as IDW keeps to his mess,it will maintain it's rassy award worthiness.IDW needs to drop and erase Costa's work.

[Boltax]

Yeaaaah... I'm not sure I mentioned Mike Costa for this reason. In fact, if anything, I dislike the fact that they've shoved Costa's 'world' under the carpet. I am thoroughly disappointed that we have a situation in the comics where it's back to the "NO HUMANS ON CYBERTRON!!" mindset. Which is the exact opposite of Mike Costa's run.

As for Optimus Prime, I wasn't judging him as part of Costa's run, just pointing out that he was consistent with Costa's run. I didn't like Costa's Prime, but I didn't like Shane McCarthy's Prime either. Honestly, Prime is a hard to like character a lot of the time in the comics -- even including the Marvel run. He's got this huge reputation, and he supposedly does everything perfectly and nobly. But the reality is he's a self-absorbed prat. Good riddance, I say.

--Andrew S.

[Bass X0]

First Transformers comic I've purchased day and date digitally.

I'm very much looking forward to reading the new stuff as it comes out.

Same! Although I will be sticking to digital and trades, rather than picking up individual issues.

What I've been doing for a while, now.

I'm finding myself starting to do the same thing.

[G1MarvelBlaster]

So, going by this one shot, is Prime going to be appearing in either of the upcoming ongoing titles? The ending seems to imply not.

Great issue, a little flawed in that it's basically all exposition to transition from the old title to the new, but I liked this version of Prime. His excitement at being able to be Orion Pax again and not having to be a military leader felt palpable.

Also, we kind of have the full on LSOTW style Prowl-as-prick back, and that's fantastic. I liked that the I/D chips were rather more nefarious than was initially assumed.

Also, showing 'Bee as willing to exile Optimus if he didn't go anyway was fantastic. Actually 'Bee was generally great in this issue, I especially like him giving Rodimus a hard time about dropping everything and running off into space every time things don't go Roddy's way.

Lastly, in an early narrative caption, it mentions "Primus or his opposite," is that the first (albeit veiled) reference to the big, bad U in IDW canon?

[MonsterFromMars]

As for Optimus Prime, I wasn't judging him as part of Costa's run, just pointing out that he was consistent with Costa's run. I didn't like Costa's Prime, but I didn't like Shane McCarthy's Prime either. Honestly, Prime is a hard to like character a lot of the time in the comics -- even including the Marvel run. He's got this huge reputation, and he supposedly does everything perfectly and nobly. But the reality is he's a self-absorbed prat. Good riddance, I say.

I don't know if I fully agree with that. I mean I see your point. But, his behaviour sort of makes a lot of sense. If you're to look at it from a realistic perspective.

If you have someone who's morally repressed themselves and has taken one thing after the other. And yet has constantly stood up for everyone else. But never took any time for themselves. Somewhat has an idea of how things could be a bit better, but it's impossible to change things.

I mean like the whole situation with the cons. Sure, it's somewhat stupid that Optimus wants to change them. But I can see a stressed and burnt out Optimus Prime that would quit and run off.

Why? It's impossible to change someone like Megatron. And letting him live just keeps making the tension and pressure of having to constantly deal with him worse and worse.


Optimus, isn't being a Self absorbed Prat at all. He's burning out and suffering from anxiety that he can't hold in anymore. Because he repressed everything about himself to follow his morally rigid guidelines. He can't get himself to hate people or kill like most people or to use dishonesty. And now that his overtly morally rigid way of doing things isn't consistently working. He's burning out and feeling anxiety due to the reprecussions.

I don't think it's Self absorbtion at all. I mean it's impossible for there to finally be a straw that broke the camels back? This is what would really happen with a overtly morally noble entity, thats far too emotionally sensitive and such gets into a situation of hardship that is consistent and monotnous in nature.

Basically he's sick and tired and considering the Transformers conflict. I don't blame him.

It's like your saying it's impossible for anyone to finally lose it and explode if they constantly had to deal with the same hardships continuosly.


And really, the mentality of underplaying "drama" as some would refer it as isn't that much of a healthy attitude either. It's like saying the war wasn't a terrible scenario where everyone had to give up everything of themselves. And that there aren't psychological scars and aftereffects of such a scenario.

So basically your trivializing the psychological impact of four million years of war, the destruction of a planet, and then having all of society hate you and blame you for it. When you were doing your best to protect them?

Sheesh, you'd make a really good psychologist for people with anxiety problems. It's like as if the whole "concept" of "burnout" dosen't exist to you. Or the whole idea that someone could have given up so much that they finally need to quit. In order to find themselves again is impossible.

With Megatron I can see why he dosen't fall into that self absorbtion quota. He burns out his rage at others, and most of the whole conquest and monotnous war is for himself. He views it as positive and puts a positive spin on it. Because he beleives it would lead to him being this great ruler king. Despite how much more he creates socieatal damage. Wouldn't Megatron really be the real Self absorbed prick? Because of the fact that he isn't repressing his needs. No he's indulging in them at the cost of his entire race. While creating a lie that he's doing it for the betterment of his race.

I don't get why anytime someone that actually sacrifices it all finally whines about it and explodes that their just a selfish dogjive. While the real bungholes that take pleasure in what their doing but are only doing it for themselves aren't seen that way.


Also, I'd argue that Optimus dosen't put a positive spin on the past. So for him the memories of the whole entire ordeal is painful and traumatizing to a point where he needs to forget. Megatron dosen't have this problem because he justifies the war and puts a positive spin on all the death, suffering, and carnage.

Prime has trouble concientiously putting a positive spin on it. Because his moral sensibility is so "rigid" he dosen't know how to "rationalize" the idea that bad things sometimes have to happen. So it's like he's getting an influx of terrible memories and events that shouldn't have happend in the first place.

It isn't so much that he's selfish. But that his moral sensibility dosen't allow him to put a positive spin on the war.

I think while it is a much more healthier way to deal with it. Megatron's whole justify it all and see it as something good. Just justifies his intrinsically selfish and creul nature. Which causes Megatron to actually feel stable enough to just commit more atrocity, slavery and tyranny.

I don't know it may be selfish for someone to want to hold to morality to keep a purity in sense of self. Because of their moral rigidity. But if Op started to justify the war in his mind. You'd pretty much lose what made him the soldier for peace in the first place. Who tries to always do things in the morally best manner. Even though it's realistically impossible.

I think the real problem is that you don't understand what it would really be like to be like Optimus Prime. And how much of a painful thought process it would entail.


Thing is that most of the Autobots aren't buddhists. They may be good guys but they have a possesive attitude towards things. In this sense Optimuses Behaviour makes sense. He has a strong sense of love and compassion and even virtue. But his one vice is that he dosen't know how to let go of things. He dosen't get how to cultivate apathy towards specific situations.

With Meg's he has vice everywhere but the one thing he at least learned is to cultivate apathy towards most of the situations that Optimus would be possesive of. Which makes sense because he's constantly killed hundreds.


Optimus isn't being a self absorbed prick, he's being possesive of certain things that he thinks can be contolled and it's causing him stress and burnout that wouldn't happen. If he had just realized he can't be perfect about everything. I get how it seems like selfish vanity. But, it's really that he's too possesive of the moral ideal for his own good. To the point where he can't perform.

Really, considering some of the stuff that has happend in the past few issues it makes sense. I mean a character can forget to hold feelings of apathy towards situations they cant control for a period of time. Really what needs to happen is show prime realize that he has to be less possesive of the situation and use it as a character growth standpoint. For him to take responsibility of the situation again. I just get annoyed at the idea that everyone knows how to cultivate positive emotions and apathy at all times. Not everyone can do that. And part of the idea with Transformers is that Autobots and Decepticons are rather possesive and have a complex of needing to control particular situations. Theres a more north americian mindset.

This post has been edited by MonsterFromMars: Jan 2 2012, 10:22 PM

[crazyjw18]

I thought it was pretty good. Art didn't make me wonder who was who and what was happening, which is always a plus.

Bumblebee.... it's really hard to like the fellow for some reason. I guess it's because he's been understandably bitter towards the whole co opting of his leadersship thing, but never really gives off any of the old likeable Bee, nor does he ever really show any sign that he still cares about Optimus at all. Even if Prime isn't officially leader, this is the guy he's been following for millions of years.

I like how Rodimus consistantly continues to be the odd guy out. He stays behind to hunt for Sunstreaker, he leaves Earth when the situation is bad, and now he's ready for a new adventure based on a vauge inscription. Ultra Magnus's decision to leave with him seems a bit surprising, however I never got the feeling he liked Bumblebee either. Seeing all those Decepticons loose could have easily been the last straw for him.

I wouldn't have minded Prime taking a few guys and going on the quest himself, but I can understand him wanting to bow out of everything. He no longer feels like he has a connection to the Matrix, he's no longer leader, and he's shown before that he's long since past being tired of the endless war. I do think it is a bit sad how often they feel the need to get him out of the way though, as if nothing new or interesting can be done as long as he is in charge. So far we've had him off doing central command stuff, mostly dead, making himself a prisoner, and now exiling himself. He's honestly out of the picture more than not.

[BB Shockwave]

Finally an IDW comic, maybe the first in a year, that doesn't suck!

I enjoyed reading it a lot - good premise, good execution, lots of character moments and cameos. That said, it is still not without its problems.

The good:

-Optimus finally goes on vacation! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-hotrod.gif) No, seriously, I just loved when he says "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings - even me." Prime realizes he is part of the problem now just as much as Megatron, and does the logical choice. He also approves both Rodimus and Bumblebee's plans and I loved the symbolic of the matrix halves given to them.
- Lots and lots of political stuff! In Marvel or DW, most TFs had to choose a side or die, not many left the planet. The idea that the number of these neutrals is higher then Bots and Cons together... very interesting. And Roberts does make a lot of what tension this brings to the scene.
- Hey, the Drift miniseries wasn't a total waste of space! Those guys were actually a cult following the Knights! And I loved the Dai Atlas name explanation.
- Although a bit Trekkie in its presentation, the idea that the Matrix contains a stellar map is very clever.
- Tons of guys who never or very long ago had any characterisation in IDW do appear as new players. I am biased towards Ratbat, obviously, but Rewind, Metalhawk also were good to see - I like the tension between him and Prowl. And that guy Metalhawk and BB calm down looks a lot like Bomb-Burst/Blood.
- Cameos - Horri-Bull, Needlenose, Pounce, not to mention the 'nail' talking to Optimus being based on the Orion Pax repaint of Kup!
- Prowl using Cons to do the dirty work, hence keeping the neutrals in check without killing anyone, and making them dislike the Cons... it's what Prowl does best, getting results while balancing on the edge of moral standards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-hotrod.gif)

The Bad:

- So, mysterious Vector Sigma pulse restores Cybertron, and thousands of Cybertronians suddenly leave their lives they lived for millions of years behind and show up? Yeah, I know, it was hard to start this story when the previous writer pretty much gave up and just rushed to a big finale, so I'll let this pass, but it could have been done better.
- The numbers of Bots and Cons is too low. Are we really to believe the Cons conquered planets and the Bots opposed them throughout the galaxy when both factions only number 200? And this also begs the question how come no alien race ever said 'enough is enough' and attacked the Cons en masse... Of course, I can easily imagine a lot of Bots and Cons are still off-planet fighting their war ever since AHM. (I mean, if Trypticon, Sixshot or Black Shadow returned to Cybertron, Prowl would have probably noticed that.)
- Prowl having that quite emotional outburst was... very out of character for him. Especially having it in front of everyone...
- Sadly, spellchecker should work harder. There is a 'Befro' instead of 'Before'... And even more jarring, when Prowl talks about his planned escape from Cybertron with the neutrals, he says 'Once, years ago....' making it sound like this happened a few years ago, when it must have been millions of years. I guess the bubble was too small and they cut a word?
- I like Roche's art and how he makes the faces so emotive, but... freckles on a robot's face? Really? There is a line there you shouldn't cross.

All in all, the good outbalances the few bad things, and I am really looking forward to both ongoings now. In fact, I just might buy these even before the trades.

As for Optimus Prime, I wasn't judging him as part of Costa's run, just pointing out that he was consistent with Costa's run. I didn't like Costa's Prime, but I didn't like Shane McCarthy's Prime either. Honestly, Prime is a hard to like character a lot of the time in the comics -- even including the Marvel run. He's got this huge reputation, and he supposedly does everything perfectly and nobly. But the reality is he's a self-absorbed prat. Good riddance, I say.

--Andrew S.

I feel the exact opposite. Even as a kid, for me Marvel OP was more of an icon then Superman. He is the guy who has been fighting a war for millions of years and can still see the good even in his enemies. He strives for peace, but that doesn't make him a pansy in combat. And he has this huge burden of leadership on his shoulders, and yeah, he mopes a lot about it - but usually just in internal monologue, and he doesn't give up or turn over the Matrix and resign. Plus, he sacrifices himself on a regular basis to save the world, and gets no health benefits. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-hotrod.gif)

What are the chances of Senator Ratbat getting a new body? If the Scourge mold s retooled into Ratbat as we guessed, it would really be a neat toy tie-in for him to have a body based on the toy.

I was thinking myself that it'll probably be a recurring joke that Ratbat will keep applying for a new body and always being told that they have no resources, that other stuff takes priority, etc... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-fire.gif) I totally loved the interaction between him and Starscream. I foresee that most Cons will follow the latter, while it will be Ratbat whose plan will actually work, despite being unappreciated.
I am also wondering what Shocky will do. He is first and foremost a scientist in IDW, so I would not be surprised to see him join Perceptor's team to understand what happened to the planet.

Plus, Swindle's only line cracks me up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-fire.gif)

Yeah, that whole Decepticon holding pen scene was brill.

Given what we saw in the ongoing, Prime has good reasons not to be fond of Ratbat (or Whirl).
I loved poor Cyclonus crying out "I do not even belong here!" - which I guess we can kinda take as criticism on Costa as well who lumped him together with Galvatron as a Decepticon when he never was one.
Also, I'd love to see Needlenose get back to being what he was before the war (according to his old bio), namely, into fashion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-fire.gif) Maybe he still has fans amongst the neutrals!

This post has been edited by BB Shockwave: Jan 3 2012, 06:18 AM

[God Fire Convoy]

- Cameos - ... not to mention the 'nail' talking to Optimus being based on the Orion Pax repaint of Kup!

actually...

(IMG:http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3812/scan0014500x514.jpg)


thus the freckles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

- I like Roche's art and how he makes the faces so emotive, but... freckles on a robot's face? Really? There is a line there you shouldn't cross.

[BB Shockwave]

Well I can't see that pic you linked from work, but I am gonna take your word for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

(IMG:http://www.seibertron.com/images/news/gfx/1324485914_Metalhawk.png)

Anorexic Metalhawk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-blitz.gif)

Why's he seemingly based on Cyb Brimstone?

Not as much... there is some similarity with the torso, but he transforms totally differently (legs become front of jet, wings on arms) - he actually reminds me of BM Jetstorm in that regard. I'd really like a toy of this guy.
That's actually another reason I like Nick's art, you can make out how a character transforms.

[God Fire Convoy]

Well I can't see that pic you linked from work, but I am gonna take your word for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

doh. hehe

just image search "noddy" [if you can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif) ] and you'll see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)

This post has been edited by God Fire Convoy: Jan 3 2012, 06:33 AM

[MonsterFromMars]

I feel the exact opposite. Even as a kid, for me Marvel OP was more of an icon then Superman. He is the guy who has been fighting a war for millions of years and can still see the good even in his enemies. He strives for peace, but that doesn't make him a pansy in combat. And he has this huge burden of leadership on his shoulders, and yeah, he mopes a lot about it - but usually just in internal monologue, and he doesn't give up or turn over the Matrix and resign. Plus, he sacrifices himself on a regular basis to save the world, and gets no health benefits.

Yup, I've never understood the "self absorbed" moniker and feel it's just a shallow pop culture buzzword to make an accusation that something is selfish drama. Just because we personally don't like it or find it annoying. Which is I don't know pretty self absorbed right?

I mean I get how people will make a big piss of nothing or some people are bigger whiners than others. But everyone is different. In terms of how they think, feel, or react to things.

Honestly, I think it's selfish to think any icon can be as virtuous as their reputation. Or can be perfect all of the time either. And, op isn't exactly someone that chose war. That's why I somewhat compare him to Megatron. Whose indulging in it because the war was a concientious choice on his part. With prime it's tottally different. I mean he was dragged into it. And, I think it's fair for him to start breaking down. Even if he did willingly get into it. It was never something he had wanted.


I also feel that the male sensitivity is what made Optimus. I mean... There's such a double standard in our society that men have to be calloused and insensitive. I looked up to spiderman and Optimus because they sort of proved to me that overtly sensitive masculine characters. Can still kick ass and chew bubblegum.


Like I said I find the word self absorbed annoying and a pretty snobbish word personally. I mean it can be used in so many contexts and varying degrees. That it comes off as an annoying buzzword. Which basic intent is to write anything off we want as selfish. Without having to understand it in context.


Do I think primes behaviour is selfish. Of course, I just don't think it necessarily makes him a prick.


It's like how Buddhist monks will use that north americian women are self absorbed because they worry about their weight. While Tibetans are suffering harsher problems. Sure their right. But it comes off as just trying to guilt people. For worrying about their own life. And sure it may be selfish and north americians are spoiled in a sense. But I think it's pretty ass for anyone to try to tell someone they should trivialize another persons life for how they feel about something. Instead of saying why you think the person is selfish or whiny.

[BB Shockwave]

Btw, what's up with Starscream? Isn't that his WFC body? (Upcoming toy advertisment pushed by Hasbro perhaps? Let's hope so...)

I am assuming tf dead can come back to life easier because most of the times they're too big to fit Charon's little boat. they have to be hacked into little pieces to fit ,and since there's no mass shifting in the realms of the dead, they have to wait and wait until Charon brings a bigger boat. They get bored waiting for their passage to afterlife so they say slag off! and get back on their feet if they are not turned into dust.

They just bribe RID Bruticus with honey-flawoured energon cookies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-fire.gif)

Well I can't see that pic you linked from work, but I am gonna take your word for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

doh. hehe

just image search "noddy" [if you can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif) ] and you'll see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)

I did, and now I am even more confused... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-blitz.gif) But once I get home I am now really curious to see that pic... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-hotrod.gif)

Roche's Bumblebee is freakin' cute.

It's those VW bug headlights on his helmets. They are more cute then dimples!

This post has been edited by BB Shockwave: Jan 3 2012, 09:47 AM

[Magnusblitz]

It was an okay issue. Pretty much entirely an exposition dump -- certainly a lot of new characters and ideas are introduced. Prime's story, on the other hand, is a bit... prefunctory. It fits with the wishy-washy Prime introduced by Mike Costa, but boy is it a silly idea. Almost childish, honestly. I found myself basically hating Prime by the end there. He comes back, he doesn't really understand what's going on, so he throws a tantrum and storms off. Fine, Prime. Take your bat and ball and go home. We'll play cricket with a tennis ball instead.

I think that's a pretty overly jaundiced way to read it. One thing Costa's run set up was the idea that the Autobots are moving beyond Prime... though originally it was because of his (silly) surrender back in issue 1 forcing them to do so, the Autobots found new leaders in Bumblebee and Rodimus. Prime came back, and it created an awkward situation, especially after the way he basically stole most of the Autobot army from Bumblebee to go fight Galvatron. This time he's out of the picture again, wakes up, and he finds that again, the Autobots are moving on without him under other leaders - and this time they truly have won, so he's not needed. He's a general and a symbol of the old regime, and the Autobots don't need either. Sure, at the end, he says that its partly selfish because he's done being Prime and being the leader (also understandable), but there was also a good logical reason behind it.

Yeaaaah... I'm not sure I mentioned Mike Costa for this reason. In fact, if anything, I dislike the fact that they've shoved Costa's 'world' under the carpet. I am thoroughly disappointed that we have a situation in the comics where it's back to the "NO HUMANS ON CYBERTRON!!" mindset. Which is the exact opposite of Mike Costa's run.

I can definitely take or leave humans, but I'm not sad to see the Costa Earth leave. He had a few interesting ideas but did nothing with them, like having the Predacons and Combaticons working for the Chinese and North Korean governments. Or the stuff with Ben Simpson. All the Spike stuff was just painful. I think they the comics needed to leave Earth for awhile just because the setting had become so wasted and unusable.

I wonder if we'll find out how much of it was "shoved under the carpet" from above like Furman's was. Don't really know if it was Costa's call or not to write storylines like Chaos and Last Earth Story to end up like they did.

[NICKSAUR]

Honestly, what we're seeing now feels like the beginnings of a future that may end in a world similar to what was set up in Beast Wars. The uh, cartoon. What with the Earth being off limits and knowledge of it seemingly relegated to high ranking officials and criminals who sought it out.

I'm just saying that I wouldn't be sad if the Earth is quarantined and the next time we see it, its actually a big deal as a huge plot point.

[Boltax]

I think that's a pretty overly jaundiced way to read it. One thing Costa's run set up was the idea that the Autobots are moving beyond Prime... though originally it was because of his (silly) surrender back in issue 1 forcing them to do so, the Autobots found new leaders in Bumblebee and Rodimus. Prime came back, and it created an awkward situation, especially after the way he basically stole most of the Autobot army from Bumblebee to go fight Galvatron. This time he's out of the picture again, wakes up, and he finds that again, the Autobots are moving on without him under other leaders - and this time they truly have won, so he's not needed. He's a general and a symbol of the old regime, and the Autobots don't need either. Sure, at the end, he says that its partly selfish because he's done being Prime and being the leader (also understandable), but there was also a good logical reason behind it.

Sure... except the whole story was about how the Autobot high command didn't know what they were doing. It's not like Optimus came along and everything was running smoothly without him, so he decided to leave, the end. Which would have been fine. The reality is throughout the entire story Prime's all, "Prowl is doing this wrong, Bumblebee is doing this wrong, people are getting into fights because of this!" and then, at the end, instead of offering SOLUTIONS, he just runs away.

It's awful.

I'm sure it's MEANT to be noble and symbolic and this huge gesture of change. But it doesn't come across that way to me.

Prime's always been a character that does the emotional thing, rather than the practical thing. That's one of the things that was so interesting about Furman's take in early IDW, where he is much more the practical guy than the emotional guy. But this Prime? This Prime is the same sort of guy who'd commit suicide over a video game. Or who would fake his own death to try and make his soldiers learn to live without him.

All credit to the team for creating a huge infodump that was still somewhat readable -- but this story was very hamfisted. It's exposition, with a kind of soggy attempt at drama thrown in. Hopefully as settup for the next story it'll serve really well. As a stand-alone story? I doubt I'll be reading it again too often.

(You wanna see a 'settup the next story' issue done well, and done excitingly, take a look at Transformers #61, Primal Scream. Much better.)

--Andrew S.

[Mako Crab]

To be fair to Prime, he's been solving everyone's problems for millenia. He's always there to wipe his Autobots' butts. Time they learned to use the Charmin on their own!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)

[ZacWilliam1]

It was an okay issue. Pretty much entirely an exposition dump -

I strongly disagree.

Certainly there is a lot of new introduced here, as it's meant as the launching pad for a whole new status quo, but there's also loads of plot and lots of characterization. It's hardly a bunch of exposition dump. We get action, story, argument characterization, soul searching, and dire decisions. Tons of stuff happens.

I found myself basically hating Prime by the end there. He comes back, he doesn't really understand what's going on, so he throws a tantrum and storms off. Fine, Prime. Take your bat and ball and go home. We'll play cricket with a tennis ball instead.

Dude, that's not even remotely close to what happened. Prime came in. Got oriented on the strange new world. Saw what was happening with the disintegrating peace and digested that his presence was damaging the new Cybertron not helping . He then made a heartfelt speach that stopped a riot by sacrificing himself and his place in TF society. There is zero tantrum in this issue! Prime is thoughtful, intelligent and noble through the whole thing, and takes the very hard step of letting go of the past so Cybertron can try for a new future. Prime was great here.

In the end it kinda reminded me of All Hail Megatron- lots of things have happenned that don't really do anything. Lots of spinning wheels and conversations that turn in circles and go nowhere. It was far more enjoyable than an issue of All Hail Megatron, but it was hardly a GREAT comic.

Again no. This issue: Cybertron is reborn. A whole civilization is reborn. The Autobots become "oppressors". The Decepticons are beaten. Society threatens to collapse into new violence. The Decepticons earn their freedom and place in society in battle. Rodimus and BB fall out over the future and split the Autobots between two destinies. And Prime makes peace by leaving Cybertron while Metalhawks star rises.

More meaningful dynamic deeply motivated plot driving change happens in this single issue than in most of All Hail Meg's put together. The compairison is frankly ridiculous.


-ZacWilliam, it's absolutely fine if you don't like the issue, but the specific points you raise against it in this case are so divergent from reality as to be entirely imaginary...

This post has been edited by ZacWilliam1: Jan 4 2012, 10:56 AM

[Boltax]

Prime's speech was one of the silliest plot points I've ever seen in my life.

Prime, a guy who had nothing to do with the setting up of this shanty-town police state arrives and gets yelled at. Then he does nothing at all to do with the governance of the new settlement. Then a huge riot breaks out, which is really the result of things that Bumblebee and Prowl have set in motion. Then... then Prime promising to leave the planet calms everything down.

Why? HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! Nothing positive, nothing negative!

His huge noble sacrifice was STUPID. That's why Prime comes across as petulant to me. He just seems not able to figure out the situation, so rather than deal with it, he leaves.

Prime's speech might have inspired others, but damn did it ring false for me. It reminded me of Prime's "I must sacrifice myself because I killed some computer game characters" stuff from Transformers #24. It's silly. It's not a rational viewpoint to take. Maybe if they'd taken more time to show how Prime negatively impacted this world... maybe then. But as it is, they had SO MUCH exposition to dump there wasn't really room to develop the story.

All that said, was the issue terrible? No. It was pretty readable, and apart from Prime the characters were okay. And it does set up the two new series, which was the purpose of the issue. But it really was a hamfisted comic. It did remind me of some of the worse exposition-dump storytelling in Marvel, like Transformers #1, or Pretender to the Throne (Transformers #40, I think).

I get the idea of Prime being a 'symbol of the war', partly because they kept telling me about it over and over in the issue. But they never really sold it for me. I mean... he didn't even seem to have any authority in the comic -- how the heck would he sway anyone's opinion of the situation? Maybe I need to read it again to work it out. Maybe it was over my head.

--Andrew S.
(But I don't think so.)

[Walky]

Prime's speech was one of the silliest plot points I've ever seen in my life.

Prime, a guy who had nothing to do with the setting up of this shanty-town police state arrives and gets yelled at. Then he does nothing at all to do with the governance of the new settlement. Then a huge riot breaks out, which is really the result of things that Bumblebee and Prowl have set in motion. Then... then Prime promising to leave the planet calms everything down.

Why? HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! Nothing positive, nothing negative!

This is actually the most realistic depiction of politics I've ever seen in my life.

[ZacWilliam1]

I get the idea of Prime being a 'symbol of the war', partly because they kept telling me about it over and over in the issue.

Well Prime was the leader of the Autobot army for MILLENIA. He's one of the two near legendary figureheads that was the battling leader of the war since the early days and for all intents and purposes HE lead to Cybertron's destruction and the situation their race has faced for the ages since the war began as much as Megs. OF COURSE he's a symbol of the war. Heck he and Megatron, to all intents, ARE THE WAR. Which is why he matters. He's Optimus freaking Prime. We have no figure in our world that matches up. Imagine Abraham Lincoln, Julious Ceaser, and Jesus were one person. Heck yeah his speach matters that much.


-ZacWilliam, and again Prime never acts at all like he's baffled by what to do and is running away. He absorbs the situation and realizes RIGHTLY, that he's part of the problem and the best way he can help heal his planet is to get out of the way of the future and let it have its chance at a new tomarrow.

This post has been edited by ZacWilliam1: Jan 4 2012, 12:08 PM