Classic G.I. Joe volume 14 Options

[NICKSAUR]

Many people forget how out there G.I.Joe really is. Giant robots aren't too out of place at all.

[Walky]

Look, all they want are their 13 identical guys in green pajamas.

[Starfield]

It's too bad TF G2 #2 won't be included to finish up the story. Of course IDW hasn't included stories from the Yearbooks/Annuals that continued from the series (yes there will be a Yearbook TPB, but its not the same!) and has even left out complete pages.

Maybe it will be in the new and improved Transformers reprints.

[Lukeblast]

Many people forget how out there G.I.Joe really is. Giant robots aren't too out of place at all.

Yup. This is one of the things that never fail to amuse (and sometimes annoy) me when I interact with Joe fandom. A lot of fans (even ones who also like TFs) like to draw a line (usually right before/after Serpentor) and claim that anything past that point is "too far". Thing is though... GI Joe has been military sci-fi from the start, with a good solid emphasis on the sci-fi aspect. From day one they were sporting a laser trooper, among other things.

Then again, a lot of TF fans like to draw lines before/after TFTM or Season 3, so we have our own version of that...

I don't care much for TF/Joe interaction myself, but that's from a storytelling aspect--Joes are supposed to be the superheroes of the armed forces, but they're superheroes in a world where giant robots are one-off Cobra plots. Humans of any stripe vs. Decepticons doesn't often work for me because at some point they need super-vehicles and/or Autobot assistance, and then it's just Autobots vs. Decepticons again (or may as well be). I feel it diminishes GI Joe by throwing the threat level completely out of whack and pitting them against foes they can't fight without equally-powerful help.

It's like Robin fighting Bizarro, but then Robin calls in Superman... why is Robin there again? What did he really bring to this party?

This post has been edited by Lukeblast: Nov 19 2011, 01:37 PM

[Shockwave 75]

Ramhorn sacrifices himself instead of Max, the logic being that Max, when brought up to full, will be a far, far better fighter. Blaster, Dogfight, Fort Max, Buster, and Dr. Biggles-Jones all make it off via Max's flight mode.

Fortress Ironhold: You're assuming Fort Max could even fly at that point.

Yeah, Fort Max never had a flight mode in the comics. Or if he did, he certainly never used it.

Personally I think the best Joe/TF crossovers were the ones done by Devil"s Due, mostly because they were written more from the Joe point of view. They never really had the Joes go one-on-one with the Decepticons.

[Fortress Ironhol...]

It's too bad TF G2 #2 won't be included to finish up the story.

It's my understanding that the Joe fandom in general - that is to say, the portion that doesn't cross over with TF fandom, and even some of them as well - will not give one single toss about this, and would rather forget this story occurred at all.

It wasn't just the fandom.

The 1st crossover was completely ignored in the Joeverse until Override name-dropped it during the second one, and the second one was only relevant in the sense that it tied up a dangling plot thread; otherwise, it too was ignored.

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Fortress Ironhold: You're assuming Fort Max could even fly at that point.

Yeah, Fort Max never had a flight mode in the comics. Or if he did, he certainly never used it.

While this is true as well, I was thinking more in the matter of Fort Max's severely-damaged state.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

[ZacWilliam1]

It's like Robin fighting Bizarro, but then Robin calls in Superman... why is Robin there again? What did he really bring to this party?

Just wanted to point out that Robin beat Mongol (Easily Bizarro level or higher) in one of the great Alan Moore Superman stories. That's why they're super heroes, because they can win when that outclassed. Same goes for the Joes.

What it all REALLY comes down to is the quality of the writing. Good writing can sell you Spiderman beating Juggernaut and in fact make a great story out of it. Tunnel Rat vs. Skywarp is the makings of a great Joe TF story, if told well.


-ZacWilliam, there's a reason so many folks love the Ratchet vs. Megatron parts of The Comics. Joe vs TFs is the same sort of potentially great underdog story...

This post has been edited by ZacWilliam1: Nov 20 2011, 07:59 PM

[Fortress Ironhol...]

-ZacWilliam, there's a reason so many folks love the Ratchet vs. Megatron parts of The Comics. Joe vs TFs is the same sort of potentially great underdog story...

Actually, IRL an American soldier could hypothetically take any given Cybertronian in a 1 - 1 battle provided that the soldier has half a second to prepare first.

Remember the final battle in the first movie? How Lennox took out a Con with nothing more than a grenade launcher and a commandeered street bike?

Stuff like that.

[Lukeblast]

Lennox was "painting" Blackout for the missiles that actually did the killing.

And that's pretty much the point I'm making. A single human--or even a squad of humans--does not take on a Cybertronian alone. It's all about weaponry and vehicles, but the vehicles and weapons the humans require to fight the robots can BE the robots, so why are there humans doing the fighting at all? This is why we generally get "companions" like Spike, the Armada kids, Sari, the Prime kids, etc... while combatants like the Neo-Knights are an exception. The very involvement of the Transformers in the story creates a massive power disparity that can only be solved by keeping those squishy humans out of the fights, somehow putting humans on equal footing (which often means just joining forces with the other side of Transformers), or (in rare cases) diminishing the Transformers themselves.

Additionally, a crossover gives both sides of both properties. When GI Joe teams up with Autobots to fight Decepticons and Cobra... we have transforming vehicles capable of taking on either side of humans that can only fight them with vehicles and weapons, so... why does it need to be Joe? What do they bring that's so special? The giant alien robots that are fully capable of fighting each other, so the worlds most elite fighting force/feared terrorist organization is overshadowed in their own crossover.

In cases where the humans HAVE to fight the Transformers because that's the whole story, the writer is saddled with a pretty terrible baseline dynamic. Yes, good writing will find ways to work with it and around it (and has!). It's not in any way impossible to tell a good story, but it's still a bad setup.

This post has been edited by Lukeblast: Nov 21 2011, 11:03 AM

[Xaaron]

Many people forget how out there G.I.Joe really is. Giant robots aren't too out of place at all.

Yup. This is one of the things that never fail to amuse (and sometimes annoy) me when I interact with Joe fandom. A lot of fans (even ones who also like TFs) like to draw a line (usually right before/after Serpentor) and claim that anything past that point is "too far". Thing is though... GI Joe has been military sci-fi from the start, with a good solid emphasis on the sci-fi aspect. From day one they were sporting a laser trooper, among other things.

Then again, a lot of TF fans like to draw lines before/after TFTM or Season 3, so we have our own version of that...

TF Fans draw so many lines, it looks like a frackin' zebra.

Ramhorn sacrifices himself instead of Max, the logic being that Max, when brought up to full, will be a far, far better fighter. Blaster, Dogfight, Fort Max, Buster, and Dr. Biggles-Jones all make it off via Max's flight mode.

Fortress Ironhold: You're assuming Fort Max could even fly at that point.

Yeah, Fort Max never had a flight mode in the comics. Or if he did, he certainly never used it.

Personally I think the best Joe/TF crossovers were the ones done by Devil"s Due, mostly because they were written more from the Joe point of view. They never really had the Joes go one-on-one with the Decepticons.

Well, Fortress Maximus did somehow drop from Earth orbit to the ground below at Spike's call in #51. Looked like he just walked out the airlock and let gravity do its thing.

Maybe he couldn't fly, but he could fall with the best of them.

[Creedence]

Actually, IRL an American soldier could hypothetically take any given Cybertronian in a 1 - 1 battle provided that the soldier has half a second to prepare first.

You kind of open yourself to many absurdities by claiming an American soldier can take down any Transformer. They were effective in the movies because Bay has a boner for the military the Transformers in that universe were weak enough. It isn't the case in many G1 universes where the military couldn't even scratch the Decepticons, much less powerhouses like Galvatron.

This post has been edited by Moon Captain: Nov 21 2011, 11:30 AM

[kinjacono]

I'm with Lukeblast in that I don't think they should occupy the same "universe" at all. It's true that such a cross-over can work when well-written but for me this is best kept to alternate universe stories where the implications can play out logically.

Neither of the G1 cross-overs were particularly great stories (I vastly prefer the UK origin for Goldbug), though I will give the Action Force one a pass for Geoff Senior's art. I hope it makes it into the UK classics reprints.

[D.M]

-ZacWilliam, there's a reason so many folks love the Ratchet vs. Megatron parts of The Comics. Joe vs TFs is the same sort of potentially great underdog story...

Actually, IRL an American soldier could hypothetically take any given Cybertronian in a 1 - 1 battle provided that the soldier has half a second to prepare first.

With Cybertronian weapons, sure.
With present day weapons, NO FREAKING WAY.

G.I. Joes could put up a fight as they use advanced weaponry.

This post has been edited by D.M: Nov 21 2011, 12:34 PM

[NightViper]

-ZacWilliam, there's a reason so many folks love the Ratchet vs. Megatron parts of The Comics. Joe vs TFs is the same sort of potentially great underdog story...

Actually, IRL an American soldier could hypothetically take any given Cybertronian in a 1 - 1 battle provided that the soldier has half a second to prepare first.

With Cybertronian weapons, sure.
With present day weapons, NO FREAKING WAY.

G.I. Joes could put up a fight as they use advanced weaponry.

Indeed. A single arrow from Scarlett's cross bow blew up a tank. A TANK.

And we all know that Snake Eye's sword can cut through anything he swings it at. Without ever needing to be sharpened.

[Proper Dave]

TF Fans draw so many lines, it looks like a frackin' zebra.

You HAVE to let me put this in my sig

[Xaaron]

So granted.