Botcon 2010 SUCKED!, --according to guys who didn't do anything there Options

[Thylacine2000]

http://youbentmywookie.com/features/botcon...ts-the-eye-9344

Now, I actually find it interesting to hear about the Botcon experience from a non-fan / walk-in point of view. But, eeesh, some of this really does grate on me...

-People still hate Beast Wars? Really? Really?
-With a set-up like that, would you believe they hate the Movies too?
-"There was nothing to do".... well, okay, if you've predetermined that none of the modern material is worthwhile and thus none of the panels are worth going to--or you're "too tired" to wait around and go to the panels you might have wanted to see--then yeah, you're not going to see anything but the dealer room. Whose fault is that?
-"Art contest suffered from poor advertising".... guh? It was about the same size it's always been, and there were four or five times more people in costume this year than usual
-"It's a ripoff for walk-ins"--see, I wish I could have heard more about this, but I actually still think it's just not a fair complaint. If the ONLY thing you want to do is get Peter Cullen's autograph, frankly, paying any amount of money for that could be declared a ripoff. The whole point of going to a convention is that you're supposed to get more out of it than that. In 2008 I chose the Protoform Package, paying something like $140 for the whole weekend. I got to do all the events, didn't get any toys, and thought it was a wonderful time.


Oh, and here's some more about what they envision as the ideal content at a Botcon:
http://www.tomcroom.com/?p=6403&cpage=1#comment-18149

Again, it's the contrast between a "generic" convention and one wholly devoted to the hobby. I've been to that panel--to clarify, I've not been to THEIR panel, but I've been to "that panel"--the "random junk about Transformers at the generic sci-fi con panel". It usually ends up being watching some other guys play with medium-range old or rare or foreign toys, talking about trivia, and then bashing whatever the latest incarnation of the franchise is. And for Jersey-Devilcon or wherever else you are, it's all well and good. But it's just not up to the standard of the hardcore hobbyists.

[Jeysie]

Well, I think that the first comment in your second link actually has some good points.

I've been to the Creation cons he's mentioned where there's nothing on the schedule but the guest lecture panels and the dealer room, and it is a little boring. I had more fun at the sci-fi related things being held at the university itself than I did at the official Con stuff in those cases!

I've also been to scifi cons that have the fan panels of various stripes, and that's where most of the fun is, really, where you get to freeform talk about the fiction with other fans or at times even with the guests themselves; I remember the most memorable experience at my last con was Peter David and a couple other pro writers hosting a writing roundtable panel.

I've also thought that BotCon registration seems a bit high... $140 is way more than even WorldCon, honestly.

So from the POV of someone being a casual TF fan (i.e. more interested in just talking about and enjoying TF itself than hearing all the cutting-edge big industry news) who's used to how other scifi cons do things, I can understand being kind of disappointed.

[Sean Whitmore]

We also both agree that Beast Wars sucks and never happened.

I'll give it this: I'm grateful the article let me know right from the start not to bother reading the whole thing.

It may be a good critique of the con or it may not, but it's coming across on a wavelength that I can't pick up.

This post has been edited by Sean Whitmore: Jul 5 2010, 01:17 AM

[Bass X0]

I had a great time and I didn't even go. It was fun being a part of the online fandom eagerly awaiting every new picture of never before seen toys and hearing news as it was announced.

[Self-Destruct]

I had a great time and I didn't even go. It was fun being a part of the online fandom eagerly awaiting every new picture of never before seen toys and hearing news as it was announced.

Aye, this is a proper statement I can relate to. I think it's saying something about this fandom when the people that aren't even at the convention are involved and interacting on some level with it.

[Specimen-17]

Exhaustion coupled with the fact that the ONLY other thing to do was walk in circles in the vendors room for four hours finally got the best of us - and we left.

This part annoys me. If you're going to turn up to a convention for a few hours, dismiss all the panels, new figure displays and presumably not interact with the thousands of people around you who share your interest in Transformers.. well, it is going to suck. And it's your own fault.

As far as I can tell they saw Cullen, did a lap around the dealer room and then went home. Claiming to be "exhausted" after that is pretty damn pathetic, and it would seem they went there with the sole intention of coming away disappointed.

I am surprised they didn't have anyone on queue duty in the early morning, as there was someone around Friday morning from about 6AM, but grown adults should be able to organise themselves into a line without assistance. The extra charges to see Cullen was a bit low, but the guy charges around $30,000 + flights to attend conventions and that money needs to come from somewhere.

[Tech-Fire]

I can understand the point of view of a non fan going to a con

I went to Raven Con, a local sci-fi/anime/gaming etc
After making it through the aisle of people hocking random crap, and then taking a spin through the dealer room, I was like "I paid $40 for this?"
But then I found the art, attended some discussions, and some how though I had never played before that day, found myself in the tournament for a card game called Munchkin

Knowing now what I know, I would be inclined to go back, prepared to spend the day and able to truly appreciate it - sans the whiny girlfriend

All that to say, it happens. People go to a Con, and get out of it what they expect and what they put into it.

[Specimen-17]

People go to a Con, and get out of it what they expect and what they put into it.

I think that sums it up perfectly. Having just read the second article in more detail, it would appear they decided BotCon was going to suck a month before it happened because their panel wasn't welcomed. And frankly I can see why it wasn't - "Transforming sound effect contest" and "Japanese Transformers theme songs you wish you never heard" hosted by 'Joey Snackpants'? I can see how that would entertain adolescent animé fans at some backwater convention, but at BotCon that would've been an empty hall.

[Walky]

I am so surprised that BotCon isn't fun if you hate 95% of Transformers.

[Thylacine2000]

I've also been to scifi cons that have the fan panels of various stripes, and that's where most of the fun is, really, where you get to freeform talk about the fiction with other fans or at times even with the guests themselves

What these guys don't appreciate is that this happens at Botcon too--it's called "the lobby."

[Dissever]

The art contest is ALWAYS poorly advertised.

[Suspsy]

What kind of out-of-shape losers get exhausted after walking slowly around a dealer room? Are these two below 120 lbs or above 350 lbs? And if they really did want to check out Cullen's panel, what was stopping them from leaving the dealer room and sitting down somewhere for a bit?

[Jeysie]

This part annoys me. If you're going to turn up to a convention for a few hours, dismiss all the panels, new figure displays and presumably not interact with the thousands of people around you who share your interest in Transformers.. well, it is going to suck. And it's your own fault.

If you go in expecting lots of guest and fan panels and get only a tiny number of guest panels and the rest industry panels that you don't really care that much about because you're a casual fan... then of course you're going to dismiss the panels, because there's no panels that interest you.

(Not that I don't agree these guys are being way too harsh in other aspects, but I get the feeling some folks are using that to also dismiss the gripes they have that IMHO actually ARE valid.)

I've also been to scifi cons that have the fan panels of various stripes, and that's where most of the fun is, really, where you get to freeform talk about the fiction with other fans or at times even with the guests themselves

What these guys don't appreciate is that this happens at Botcon too--it's called "the lobby."

Er... no. Standing around talking with random fellow fans about whatever comes to mind is fun, but it's not remotely the same as organized roundtable panels about various specific topics at all. It's especially not the same as the ones hosted by the guests.

Unless "the lobby" refers to some specific structured fan panel setup at BotCon, in which case I apologize.

This post has been edited by Jeysie: Jul 5 2010, 10:05 AM

[Big Show]

Well, there's the problem. They went to the wrong place. Seems like these guys would have had a better time at CullenCon.

[Specimen-17]

If you go in expecting lots of guest and fan panels and get only a tiny number of guest panels and the rest industry panels that you don't really care that much about because you're a casual fan... then of course you're going to dismiss the panels, because there's no panels that interest you.

(Not that I don't agree these guys are being way too harsh in other aspects, but I get the feeling some folks are using that to also dismiss the gripes they have that IMHO actually ARE valid.)

For one thing, I really wish you'd stop criticizing the goings on of a convention you didn't attend and appear to have very little knowledge of.

For two, if you're a "casual fan" then you shouldn't be going to hugging BotCon in the first place. The guys writing the review went as general admission so they have no excuse for not reading the schedule on the website beforehand. The Transformers fandom is primarily about toys, so obviously that's what BotCon is going to be catering for, but on Saturday there were panels about the upcoming TV show, toys, the War For Cybertron game, voice actors from G1 and BW, the club, the IDW comics.. not to mention the Hasbro and IDW guys in the dealer room who you could approach most of the day. If you're too much of a casual fan to care about any of that, why on earth would you even consider attending BotCon? You may as well be a diabetic going to a candy convention.

I'm also failing to see how fan and guest panels would be of more interest to a casual fan. Most casual fans I know have a few toys, buy some of the media and have a passing interest in how it's made/what's coming in the future, but couldn't give a flying hug about most guests or any fan panels. Most of the full-on collectors I know couldn't give a jive about fan panels either, which is probably why you don't see them at BC and they're always the least attended events at other TF conventions I've been to.

[The Muse]

... I might be going to Twilight con. (Yeah, yeah laugh it up) Speaking as someone who isn't a fan of Twilight and is probably going to keep her cousin company. I sure as hell wouldn't be dissing the con. It's not entirely my bag, but I can find fun anywhere. Hell it might even be enjoyable. If only to watch driveling fan girls.

As has been said, you get out of a con what you put into it. I intend to have fun. I'll find a way to do it. Who knows the guests might be cool.

I've heard a lot of casual fans refer to the concept of Botcon as awesome or sounds pretty fun. (The afore mentioned cousin for example) So I wouldn't say casual fans have NO place at a Botcon. I'm sure as a walk in, a non-douche would find a way to have fun for a few hours. Just to say they went.


This post has been edited by The Muse: Jul 5 2010, 11:13 AM

[Jeysie]

For one thing, I really wish you'd stop criticizing the goings on of a convention you didn't attend and appear to have very little knowledge of.

I'm not criticizing BotCon, so much as I'm saying IF this is true, then.

Not to mention I actually like industry panels, and while I wish there seemed to be more fan panels, that's not necessarily a deal-breaker, since the previous BotCons did seem to have more guest panels, and this one was just light because it was at Disney. So I wouldn't be as disappointed as these guys if I'd gone.

I'm just, you know, actually trying to step in someone else's shoes and think about what BotCon might look like to a casual fan who's used to other scifi cons, rather than dismissing them out of hand.

So if I'm missing some knowledge about something, then go ahead and tell me! I certainly would like to know more about how BotCon works if I'm ever going to go.

The Transformers fandom is primarily about toys, so obviously that's what BotCon is going to be catering for, but on Saturday there were panels about the upcoming TV show, toys, the War For Cybertron game, voice actors from G1 and BW, the club, the IDW comics.. not to mention the Hasbro and IDW guys in the dealer room who you could approach most of the day. If you're too much of a casual fan to care about any of that, why on earth would you even consider attending BotCon?

Because you like TF? Outside of BotCon there's not a lot of TF-themed cons in the US to go to that I'm aware of (I know about DairyCon... which other ones are there?)

And, while I don't know why the guys didn't visit more of the guest panels, I admit I could see a casual fan being bored by industry panels. You and I like hearing this news because we're really into TF, but a casual fan interested mostly in the older fiction might not be all that interested in the club, the upcoming show, or the toys. IDW and WFC might be of more interest (though considering WFC is out already, I could see some folks figuring they might as well just play the game).

Also, you'd be surprised at how there's quite a number of people in the fandom outside the main boards who actually care more about the fiction than the toys. I know quite a few TF fans who have only a handful of toys or sometimes none at all, yet eat up the cartoons and comics.

I'm also failing to see how fan and guest panels would be of more interest to a casual fan.

Most of the casual fans I know of outside of these boards LOVE talking about the fiction. So most of them would probably love to have fan panels about various topics, especially with the writers, and they definitely love the VAs.

[Galenraff]

This is the same sort of stuff we were hearing before the convention too about how "other cons do it so much better." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-primal.gif) The fact is, other conventions aren't such a tiny niche as Transformers if they're "anime" or "sci fi" conventions. Those are much more of a potpourri, and as such there's going to be a huge variety of all kinds of different things. Also, they were wrong to think that Hasbro pays a ton of "big budget" money for Botcon, they don't. Yes, they contribute in some ways, but it's FunPub's show - but to make it even harder, even though the finances are all on FunPub, they still have to run everything they do by Hasbro which is not always a fast process. It's a tremendous burden and restriction which other cons don't have.

Now, that's not to say that their complaints are utterly without merit. I do think FunPub needs to straighten up some of their stuff, particularly with regard to getting their schedules nailed down and released earlier, and with regard to walk-ins and what the con offers them. However, let's be fair about the "walk in experience," as much as it'd be nice for absolutely everyone to have the best time ever, you're going to cater to your $300 crowd as much as possible, and the $5 or $10 or whatever price people are definitely going to come in last.

There's also the simple fact that Botcon used to have other stuff. They used to have some fan panels, they used to have a video room, and y'know what? A lot of times those rooms were pretty empty. That's not to say it wouldn't be worth trying, but I agree with Thy...the ideas they floated just don't sound even mildly entertaining. Probably everyone at Botcon does a better TF sound than their contest winners at a general anime con, but they clearly weren't really understanding their audience here. The fact that they have such a hate-on for BW and so much newer stuff betrays them as pretty hardcore geewunners, and while there's a place for that at Botcon, if you go there with blinders and hate for everything *else*, you're gonna have a bad time.

The art area looked a bit bigger this year, in my opinion. I think it looks so sparse because they give each piece enough room rather than crowding them all together. Just to hit that point.

So while I'm as huge a proponent of Botcon continuing to improve and do better in a number of ways, to say that the show totally sucks and isn't any fun, well that just seems ignorant and biased. Like they intentionally went there expecting it to suck, from their narrow perspective as a rather casual fan. I'd say that as "casual fans," they actually did get a lot for their money - they met Cullen, got in the dealer room, and had access to the panels - whether or not they really decided to engage at the con or talk with anyone or have any fun, well that's all on them, but the opportunity was there.

[Dissever]

I agree with you that most fan-run panels are not going to hold the audience's attention. I, along with some other regulars on a TF game, attended this guy's panel at Dragon*Con. It's possible that my impression was shaped by the fact that I wasn't too thrilled when the guy said "I hate you" in response to me being the only person to raise my hand when he had asked if anyone here had been to a BotCon. Perhaps he said that because he knew everything he was going to talk about was going to be old hat for folks who attended the convention. The content frankly was NOT novel, and was a rehash of information found on multiple online forums. The entire panel seemed like a soapbox for him to rail, at great length and tedium, about why he hates certain things that Hasbro did or produced. That is something that many of us can get by coming to the boards here, and we have the luxury of clicking away (or raising our voices immediately via the reply button), and thusly being done with it in seconds to minutes instead of sitting in a 45 minute long state of ennui, and /discomfort/ at the idea that this blowhard was presenting himself from a position of authority to otherwise casual fans that were soaking up his opinions as gospel truth. The 2k5 crew and I left two-thirds of the way through. I can see why the panel wasn't there at the most recent Dragon*Con.

I do not, however, agree with the 'get out' attitude displayed here towards those that suggest the provided material is boring. What I will suggest, however, is that the scheduling really DOES leave huge gaps that validate the claims that 'there is nothing to do'! My favorite BotCon years involved scheduling that had two very solid tracks that, although it necessitated multiple sessions, gave much more flexibility when it came to visiting the dealer room, art contest (which I maintain still is not very well advertised, especially for the sake of DISPLAYING the awesome stuff we've done with their giant robots. Seriously, eff the prize money), panels, and room parties. For local walk-in attendees, the 'socializing with friends' option doesn't necessarily exist.

For one thing, I really wish you'd stop criticizing the goings on of a convention you didn't attend and appear to have very little knowledge of.

For two, if you're a "casual fan" then you shouldn't be going to hugging BotCon in the first place. The guys writing the review went as general admission so they have no excuse for not reading the schedule on the website beforehand. The Transformers fandom is primarily about toys, so obviously that's what BotCon is going to be catering for, but on Saturday there were panels about the upcoming TV show, toys, the War For Cybertron game, voice actors from G1 and BW, the club, the IDW comics.. not to mention the Hasbro and IDW guys in the dealer room who you could approach most of the day. If you're too much of a casual fan to care about any of that, why on earth would you even consider attending BotCon? You may as well be a diabetic going to a candy convention.

I'm also failing to see how fan and guest panels would be of more interest to a casual fan. Most casual fans I know have a few toys, buy some of the media and have a passing interest in how it's made/what's coming in the future, but couldn't give a flying hug about most guests or any fan panels. Most of the full-on collectors I know couldn't give a jive about fan panels either, which is probably why you don't see them at BC and they're always the least attended events at other TF conventions I've been to.

[Jeysie]

I agree with you that most fan-run panels are not going to hold the audience's attention. I, along with some other regulars on a TF game, attended this guy's panel at Dragon*Con.

I'll definitely agree that the guy's specific idea for a panel doesn't sound interesting to me either... but that doesn't mean all fan panels have to be bad. (Especially since most of the fan panels I've been to haven't sounded like his specific idea either.) I'd think that the TF fans and hosts could come up with something more appropriate, especially when the fan-interaction things like the Customizing Class that do exist and cater to one of the TF fandom's specific interests seem to be so popular in terms of who wishes they could get in.