Art Criticism in Iacon Discussion, Split from TMDB2's custom thread Options

[Copper Bezel]

Egad, think of the children, etc.

There's a serious lack of constructive criticism for beginners here at Iacon. It's especially extreme with kitbashing, and I've been on the not-giving as well as the not-receiving end of it. It sucks. It doesn't come across as politeness. It comes across as an implication that the work isn't worth commenting on.

Or, at worst, both at the same time.

(On the other hand, Caboose - you had a number ranking system? Seriously? = D )

This post has been edited by Kalimol: Jun 30 2010, 12:06 AM

[Cabooceratops]

(On the other hand, Caboose - you had a number ranking system? Seriously? = D )

I did, but it was kinda rudimentary, and I pulled it off, anyways.

[MiLkShAkE]

WOAHWOAHWOAH.

Milkshake, CHILL, I dunno who kicked your dog today, but don't take it out on me.

Though, admittedly, the number rating was a bit much, and I apologize for that(And have edited it out of my post.).

Aside from that, I stand by what I said. I know I come off as a bit harsh sometimes in my concrits, but I am really only trying to help.

Aye, I actually really did have a bad day yesterday....you just so happened to post at the wrong time for me that's all. This thread kinda cheered me up and I strongly believe gift art should not be criticized (unless asked for). But anyway after sleeping on it I realized I was way out of line. I apologize and take everything I said.

I also deleted my post of yelling.

This post has been edited by MiLkShAkE: Jun 30 2010, 05:32 AM

[Cabooceratops]

Aye, I actually really did have a bad day yesterday....you just so happened to post at the wrong time for me that's all. This thread kinda cheered me up and I strongly believe gift art should not be criticized (unless asked for). But anyway after sleeping on it I realized I was way out of line. I apologize and take everything I said.

I also deleted my post of yelling.

Sorry to hear that dude, hope today's better for ya.

My concrits do have one fatal weakness, admittedly, they tend to focus on what's wrong, and don't mention what I like, so I'll write, "I don't like such and such but the rest is cool.", it tends to come across as "I don't like such and such.".

Though, to come clean, I just suck at writing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-wildride.gif)

[Dissever]

Hmm, almost makes me wonder if we should have a few labels for artwork for requesting critiques or not, and if the person wants to hear the good as well as the bad. I might start tagging my own art with that in the opening line or two of the topic text, and see if it catches on.

[shumworld]

Hmm, almost makes me wonder if we should have a few labels for artwork for requesting critiques or not, and if the person wants to hear the good as well as the bad. I might start tagging my own art with that in the opening line or two of the topic text, and see if it catches on.

Agreed. Critiques are always helpful but there needs to be a right place for the right time.

[Copper Bezel]

Yeah, and I'd like to be able to make clear that I'm open to criticism, even if it's "break all your fingers and go home."

[Cabooceratops]

Yeah, and I'd like to be able to make clear that I'm open to criticism, even if it's "break all your fingers and go home."

Oh man, same here.

Then again, it's a moot point, no one ever responds to my art topics anyways.

[shumworld]

seriously guys the art forum really needs to lighten up.

[TM2 Dinobot]

I thought I was lightening it up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)

[Cabooceratops]

I thought I was lightening it up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)

Noyoudidn'tSpectrawaveisgonnabuzzsawmyfaceoffaaaaaaaaaagh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-screamer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-screamer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-screamer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-screamer.gif)

[Copper Bezel]

*twitch*

I'm... I'm sorry. What did you just call me? I'll have you know, I'm an expert at this. I'm just simply lazy.

And see, this is another case where that tagging system would come in handy. If you don't really care about what you're posting and you're asked to indicate that at the beginning, then it could save others the time of offering useful critique.

This post has been edited by Kalimol: Jul 1 2010, 01:19 AM

[MiLkShAkE]

Egad, think of the children, etc.

There's a serious lack of constructive criticism for beginners here at Iacon. It's especially extreme with kitbashing, and I've been on the not-giving as well as the not-receiving end of it. It sucks. It doesn't come across as politeness. It comes across as an implication that the work isn't worth commenting on.

Or, at worst, both at the same time.

(On the other hand, Caboose - you had a number ranking system? Seriously? = D )

There's a serious lack of constructive criticism for beginners here at Iacon because the mass majority of us are beginners who don't know enough to give a precise, fair, critique. That's why your on the not-receiving end. Iacon was never designed to be an art fourm for self improvement, that's what Deviantrt is for. It was designed for fans to share with other fans their common interests. It's designed so that little 10 year old Tommy can share his picture of OP to say Don Fig' or whoever else is in the community. Without the hassle of being ripped on.
That's why I had such an issue with Caboose's response. He (you are a guy right?) just went on and on with how he didn't like what he saw (he even stated he doesn't post what he likes about a piece normally), then he went on with this whole number ranking system which in the end really didn't mean anything. That's not constructive criticism, it's was almost art bashing. He didn't offer any insight on how to fix/improve the work. He didn't show any examples to follow. And how could he? ...He doesn't do kitbashes. In my opinion his critique is moot cause i though the piece was good for what it was.

I'm not saying what your asking for is wrong, and that you shouldn't ask for a critique. Nor should it stop anyone from posting here. It's just the talent pool here at Iacon is mostly fan based without any real professional background (little Tommy for instants). I feel what your looking for, your not going to find it here. That's why it seems nobody comments outside the "That's Awesome" side of things.

I don't give critiques most of the time because nobody asks for them. And that's understandable because nobody wants to hear how bad they are. It's just human nature. But hey if ye want a critique all ya gotta do is ask at the end of your post. Ya don't need a special button added to the fourm, ya don't need separate section added, just ask. And I for one, most of the time will respond with what little background I have.

This post has been edited by MiLkShAkE: Jul 1 2010, 08:39 AM

[shumworld]

The internet is weird and it stinks how TM2DB's post meant with good intentions mutated into a discussion on what this art forum has become. This makes me sad.

This post has been edited by shumworld: Jul 1 2010, 01:27 PM

[Boomslang]

There's a serious lack of constructive criticism for beginners here at Iacon because the mass majority of us are beginners who don't know enough to give a precise, fair, critique. That's why your on the not-receiving end. Iacon was never designed to be an art fourm for self improvement, that's what Deviantrt is for. It was designed for fans to share with other fans their common interests. It's designed so that little 10 year old Tommy can share his picture of OP to say Don Fig' or whoever else is in the community. Without the hassle of being ripped on.
That's why I had such an issue with Caboose's response. He (you are a guy right?) just went on and on with how he didn't like what he saw (he even stated he doesn't post what he likes about a piece normally), then he went on with this whole number ranking system which in the end really didn't mean anything. That's not constructive criticism, it's was almost art bashing. He didn't offer any insight on how to fix/improve the work. He didn't show any examples to follow. And how could he? ...He doesn't do kitbashes. In my opinion his critique is moot cause i though the piece was good for what it was.

I'm not saying what your asking for is wrong, and that you shouldn't ask for a critique. Nor should it stop anyone from posting here. It's just the talent pool here at Iacon is mostly fan based without any real professional background (little Tommy for instants). I feel what your looking for, your not going to find it here. That's why it seems nobody comments outside the "That's Awesome" side of things.

I don't give critiques most of the time because nobody asks for them. And that's understandable because nobody wants to hear how bad they are. It's just human nature. But hey if ye want a critique all ya gotta do is ask at the end of your post. Ya don't need a special button added to the fourm, ya don't need separate section added, just ask. And I for one, most of the time will respond with what little background I have.

One: You don't need to be a chef to be able to say something tastes good or bad.
Two: Amateurs aren't necessarily bad at what they do. They just aren't getting paid to do it. Being an amateur (by choice or not) does not preclude improvement.

[Dissever]

One: You don't need to be a chef to be able to say something tastes good or bad.
Two: Amateurs aren't necessarily bad at what they do. They just aren't getting paid to do it. Being an amateur (by choice or not) does not preclude improvement.

However, this assumes a desire for 1.) feedback, and 2.) improvement. Sometimes a 'thank you' is sufficient, although it may be foolhardy to expect no other comments when posting to a public forum.

This discussion, as Shum has pointed out, is taking on a life of its own, and merits its own thread at this point since it is distracting from the original topic. If someone doesn't beat me to it by the time I can actually put together my full thoughts on the matter, I'll post later this evening. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-hotrod.gif)

[Ursa Magnus]

Continue discussing here, folks. -- Ursa

[Dissever]

Continue discussing here, folks. -- Ursa

Yay, thank you Ursa. Will discuss more in a couple of hours.

[NICKSAUR]

As long as you say what makes it good and what makes it not, all critiques should wanted and welcomed.

An artists needs to know what people think when they see his work. He needs to know if the message he conveys is being conveyed correctly, and if not then he needs ways to change that.

I don't review a lot of stuff here because it always seems like a wasted breath, but maybe I'll try again and start critiquing lots of things and see how that goes.

[Cabooceratops]

Oddly enough, all this hub-bub makes me not want to ever concrit here again.

I'm kinda scared. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-wildride.gif)